Hot Shot Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 http://www.randalstowncsc.ie/entry.php?351-WE-ARE-NOT-old-firm-WE-ARE-CELTIC Personally I think there are too many fans on each side of the divide only too willing to participate in historical rivalries for this kind of thinking to ever mould the future. My question for this forum is, IF the old firm could be seperated in the sense that there is no longer a connection between them other than they both come from the same city, would we be happy for both rangers and Celtic to exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I love using the term 'Old Firm' as it lumps them together and, er, Old Firm fans hate the tag . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 The Old Firm: The completely separate, not at all two cheeks of the same arse rivals who have so far had (at least) FOUR joint shirt sponsorships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
general george Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 What is it about "Jungle Jims" and taking the moral highground. Does the Celtic family still include paedophiles, terrorists and the like? They like to talk about Scotland's "Secret Shame" they should look closer to home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick bateman Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) The Old Firm, Tennents/carling/ntl/cr smith United. One cannot exist without the other. Two global brands shamelessly cultivated for over a hundred years and fuelled on bigotry, political conflict and religion. both clubs would be average supported clubs if the other didn't exist. Joint sponsorship, the 11-1 voting structure, "the greatest derby in the world" They have manipulated and monopolised football their entire existence to acheive their common goal. Shameless tit-for-tat point scoring by both clubs management heirarchy in order to maintain extremist rivalry. examples include in the blue corner the orange strip, waving of the union jack on the pitch before home games (why?), claiming ownership of the right to wear the poppy, an act which should be personal choice by over the top fan dislays, massive poppy and writing on strip to emphasis "we're more british than everyone else", remit to create a culture where if someone wears a poppy they are immediately labelled a Rangers fan and treated accordingly thus discouraging supporters of other clubs who would normally wear one to do so as they can't be bothered with the hassle " your either with us or against us". In the green corner paying lip service to the anti-poppy protests of the green brigade in an attempt to win favour with the more extreme Celtic fans the "st Patricks day" edition of the Celtic view an official club publication. if you haven't seen this check it out. A celebration of all the "irish" players that have adorned the hoops. A centre spread poster with Irish Tri-colour background and players Paddy McCourt, Neil Lennon and Niall McGinn who all played for Northern Ireland ( minor Detail), 2 page spread urging all Celtic fans to " tick the Irish Box" in the census form " if you have Irish parents, grand parents , Great great granparents it qualifies you to say you have Irish ethnicity apparently. Various statistics to back-up claims that people with Irish surnames are discriminated against with regard to employment and more likely to live in Poverty. galvanising the notion that society, establishment, police, referees are all against us and we're all victims. Rallying language like " stand up and be counted". It's getting worse and they both have the media in ther pockets so nothing will ever be done about it. So be proud that you have taken the decision not to be part of Old Firm United. Edited March 25, 2011 by patrick bateman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 In agreeing with all the excellent comments on this thread, I'd like to state that in a field of vile, bitter sectarians from both wings of Hatred United, John Reid stands out as probably the most detestable individual in recent memory. And that really is saying something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The Old Firm, Tennents/carling/ntl/cr smith United. One cannot exist without the other. Two global brands shamelessly cultivated for over a hundred years and fuelled on bigotry, political conflict and religion. both clubs would be average supported clubs if the other didn't exist. Joint sponsorship, the 11-1 voting structure, "the greatest derby in the world" They have manipulated and monopolised football their entire existence to acheive their common goal. Shameless tit-for-tat point scoring by both clubs management heirarchy in order to maintain extremist rivalry. examples include in the blue corner the orange strip, waving of the union jack on the pitch before home games (why?), claiming ownership of the right to wear the poppy, an act which should be personal choice by over the top fan dislays, massive poppy and writing on strip to emphasis "we're more british than everyone else", remit to create a culture where if someone wears a poppy they are immediately labelled a Rangers fan and treated accordingly thus discouraging supporters of other clubs who would normally wear one to do so as they can't be bothered with the hassle " your either with us or against us". In the green corner paying lip service to the anti-poppy protests of the green brigade in an attempt to win favour with the more extreme Celtic fans the "st Patricks day" edition of the Celtic view an official club publication. if you haven't seen this check it out. A celebration of all the "irish" players that have adorned the hoops. A centre spread poster with Irish Tri-colour background and players Paddy McCourt, Neil Lennon and Niall McGinn who all played for Northern Ireland ( minor Detail), 2 page spread urging all Celtic fans to " tick the Irish Box" in the census form " if you have Irish parents, grand parents , Great great granparents it qualifies you to say you have Irish ethnicity apparently. Various statistics to back-up claims that people with Irish surnames are discriminated against with regard to employment and more likely to live in Poverty. galvanising the notion that society, establishment, police, referees are all against us and we're all victims. Rallying language like " stand up and be counted". It's getting worse and they both have the media in ther pockets so nothing will ever be done about it. So be proud that you have taken the decision not to be part of Old Firm United. What an excellent post. I agree with every single detail. Reading such things make you proud to be a Jag and remind you why you drag your sorry arse up and down the country every other week, following a team that more often than not, ruins your weekend. I wouldn't have it any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Sadly, the Old Firm remains a national football obsession, as this and other threads on wearethistle.co.uk demonstrate. The sad fact that some of us gleefully leap in with the old rhetoric used against one side or the other says a great deal. How about we stick to the OP's point, and there Charlie and H Wragg have summed the situation up quite nicely - what was that Sinatra song about love and marriage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blutarsky Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 another piece of poorly researched shoddy journalism in a similar vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 What is it about "Jungle Jims" and taking the moral highground. Does the Celtic family still include paedophiles, terrorists and the like? They like to talk about Scotland's "Secret Shame" they should look closer to home! Totally agree with this comment! They have had a chip on thier shoulder for as long as they have been in existance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimp Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 i wouldnt care, see if they supported us and put bums on seats? i dont care who they are or where they are from. as long as they supported us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 i wouldnt care, see if they supported us and put bums on seats? i dont care who they are or where they are from. as long as they supported us I don't want these smelly peasants in my stadium, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennypaton Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 The Old Firm, Tennents/carling/ntl/cr smith United. One cannot exist without the other. Two global brands shamelessly cultivated for over a hundred years and fuelled on bigotry, political conflict and religion. both clubs would be average supported clubs if the other didn't exist. Joint sponsorship, the 11-1 voting structure, "the greatest derby in the world" They have manipulated and monopolised football their entire existence to acheive their common goal. Shameless tit-for-tat point scoring by both clubs management heirarchy in order to maintain extremist rivalry. examples include in the blue corner the orange strip, waving of the union jack on the pitch before home games (why?), claiming ownership of the right to wear the poppy, an act which should be personal choice by over the top fan dislays, massive poppy and writing on strip to emphasis "we're more british than everyone else", remit to create a culture where if someone wears a poppy they are immediately labelled a Rangers fan and treated accordingly thus discouraging supporters of other clubs who would normally wear one to do so as they can't be bothered with the hassle " your either with us or against us". In the green corner paying lip service to the anti-poppy protests of the green brigade in an attempt to win favour with the more extreme Celtic fans the "st Patricks day" edition of the Celtic view an official club publication. if you haven't seen this check it out. A celebration of all the "irish" players that have adorned the hoops. A centre spread poster with Irish Tri-colour background and players Paddy McCourt, Neil Lennon and Niall McGinn who all played for Northern Ireland ( minor Detail), 2 page spread urging all Celtic fans to " tick the Irish Box" in the census form " if you have Irish parents, grand parents , Great great granparents it qualifies you to say you have Irish ethnicity apparently. Various statistics to back-up claims that people with Irish surnames are discriminated against with regard to employment and more likely to live in Poverty. galvanising the notion that society, establishment, police, referees are all against us and we're all victims. Rallying language like " stand up and be counted". It's getting worse and they both have the media in ther pockets so nothing will ever be done about it. So be proud that you have taken the decision not to be part of Old Firm United. This post perfectly sums up the Old Firm. The people who buy into this Irish/British idea associated with both clubs lack individual thought, because they support a certain football club doesn't mean they have to hold certain political or religous views. An ironic tit for tat 'we are better fans than you' has emerged in recent years i.e. 'scotlands shame' and rangers fans ridiculously over the top poppy display following from the 'no blood stained poppy banner'. Despite their hatred for each other, OF fans are a lot more similiar than they think. The funny thing is a lot of them are to ignorant/blind to see this. When you explain to people in England the protestant/ catholic side of the rivalry they look on in bemusement i.e. what has this got to do with football and society in the 21st century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 This post perfectly sums up the Old Firm. The people who buy into this Irish/British idea associated with both clubs lack individual thought, because they support a certain football club doesn't mean they have to hold certain political or religous views. An ironic tit for tat 'we are better fans than you' has emerged in recent years i.e. 'scotlands shame' and rangers fans ridiculously over the top poppy display following from the 'no blood stained poppy banner'. Despite their hatred for each other, OF fans are a lot more similiar than they think. The funny thing is a lot of them are to ignorant/blind to see this. When you explain to people in England the protestant/ catholic side of the rivalry they look on in bemusement i.e. what has this got to do with football and society in the 21st century. Yeah i've a number of friends who live down south. They go on about the old firm and how good it would be to see them in the EPL. Then looked shocked when i explain the background to both. Can you imagine the carnage of Celtic away to Chelsea in the EPL? Or Rangers away to , well just pick your team. They seem to have rampaged through most english cities over the last few years !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 claiming ownership of the right to wear the poppy, an act which should be personal choice by over the top fan dislays, massive poppy and writing on strip to emphasis "we're more british than everyone else", remit to create a culture where if someone wears a poppy they are immediately labelled a Rangers fan and treated accordingly thus discouraging supporters of other clubs who would normally wear one to do so as they can't be bothered with the hassle " your either with us or against us". The 'poppy fetishism' displayed by Rangers over the past couple of seasons has been almost as distasteful, disrespectful and outrageous as the anti-poppy displays and disgusting singing of their most bitter rivals. 2 page spread urging all Celtic fans to " tick the Irish Box" in the census form " if you have Irish parents, grand parents , Great great granparents it qualifies you to say you have Irish ethnicity apparently. Not that I disbelieve what you are saying but do you have a link to that? That is an absolutely outrageous thing for them to suggest! Sadly, I am quite prepared to believe that it is true; but I would prefer to see further verification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick bateman Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 The 'poppy fetishism' displayed by Rangers over the past couple of seasons has been almost as distasteful, disrespectful and outrageous as the anti-poppy displays and disgusting singing of their most bitter rivals. Not that I disbelieve what you are saying but do you have a link to that? That is an absolutely outrageous thing for them to suggest! Sadly, I am quite prepared to believe that it is true; but I would prefer to see further verification. sadly don't have a link to it, read a mates copy in work. what a football club has got to do with an national census is beyond me. Funny how the old firm always distance themselves from any trouble by saying it's not a football problem yet involve themselves in the national census. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 sadly don't have a link to it, read a mates copy in work. what a football club has got to do with an national census is beyond me. Funny how the old firm always distance themselves from any trouble by saying it's not a football problem yet involve themselves in the national census. Indeed. It's nae wonder this country is in a mess when we have those bastions of bigotry encouraging folk to adopt a national identity that isn't their own: the green half Irish (or plastic Irish, as modern Ireland doesn't bear much resemblance to the one that the tims are obsessed with) and the blue half some sort of pastiche of 'Britishness' (a contrived nationality if there ever was one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Indeed. It's nae wonder this country is in a mess when we have those bastions of bigotry encouraging folk to adopt a national identity that isn't their own: the green half Irish (or plastic Irish, as modern Ireland doesn't bear much resemblance to the one that the tims are obsessed with) and the blue half some sort of pastiche of 'Britishness' (a contrived nationality if there ever was one). Bigotry and hate has always been the Firm's business. Business is still good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Bigotry and hate has always been the Firm's business. Business is still good Too true mate. And ultimately that is the reason why I would much rather go and watch a mid-table, second tier team struggle to play on an awful pitch in a half-empty, gradually dilapidating stadium than give my money to either half of the old firm. That, and the fact that Firhill is much closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Too true mate. And ultimately that is the reason why I would much rather go and watch a mid-table, second tier team struggle to play on an awful pitch in a half-empty, gradually dilapidating stadium than give my money to either half of the old firm. That, and the fact that Firhill is much closer. And we have better pies. Both of these organisations fuel hatred. I remember being occasionally being taken to Parkhead in my schooldays (around 25 years ago) for the European games and being asked for money for the "Boys" and so on. The Paramilitary stuff on sale outside Ibrox was blatant until quite recently (maybe still is although they shouldn't have traders licenses nowadays). I reckon a lot of the problems are still there in Northern Ireland and the presence of the Old Firm really doesn't help with moving on from the troubles. It was a joke when I was at school that all of the IRA and UDA's weapons were hidden in Glasgow Housing Schemes. I suspect it was actually the truth. Edited March 28, 2011 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleveland steamer Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 It was a joke when I was at school that all of the IRA and UDA's weapons were hidden in Glasgow Housing Schemes. I suspect it was actually the truth. History has proven this to be true to a degree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 sadly don't have a link to it, read a mates copy in work. what a football club has got to do with an national census is beyond me. Funny how the old firm always distance themselves from any trouble by saying it's not a football problem yet involve themselves in the national census. I came across this today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPddUSLK58Y&sns=fb Probably from the same mob behind the item in the Celtic View. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 the first article was terrible - just football supporting victimology. As for issues of census, i'm not a fan of multicultural policy driving community work funding but that is the milieu we are in, so in that context i suppose those of us who come from an irish background probably should tick that box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 the first article was terrible - just football supporting victimology. As for issues of census, i'm not a fan of multicultural policy driving community work funding but that is the milieu we are in, so in that context i suppose those of us who come from an irish background probably should tick that box... Why wouldn't you if that's how you feel ? I don't see a problem with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 the first article was terrible - just football supporting victimology. As for issues of census, i'm not a fan of multicultural policy driving community work funding but that is the milieu we are in, so in that context i suppose those of us who come from an irish background probably should tick that box... Some of us have been writing 'Irish' into our census entries for the past couple of decades, D. Ethnicity is important to governments. The Nixon administration in the US built part of its biological weapons programme on ethnicity in the early 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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