One Word Post - Should Scotland Be An Independent Country? Yes Or No.

[Jaggernaut]

Barroso says that Scotland will have to apply for EU membership.

 

"In case there is a new country, a new state, coming out of a current member state it will have to apply.

 

"And - is very important - accession to the European Union will have to be approved by all other member states of the European Union.

 

"Of course it will be extremely difficult to get the approval of all the other member states to have a new member coming from one member state... I believe it's going to be extremely difficult, if not impossible, a new member state coming out of one of our countries getting the agreement of the others."

 

The Conservatives, Lib Dem and Labour have ruled out a currency union. Barroso says clearly that there is little chance of Scotland being admitted to the EU and, therefore, joining the Euro zone. Spain will veto Scotland's application as a means of fighting the Catalan independence movement.

 

An independent Scotland will therefore have to be an non-EU country with its own currency. Salmond and Sturgeon can't continue to evade the issues by telling the UK Government and the Commission that they are wrong. They must come up with a credible alternative plan soon or lose the little credibility that they have left.

 

Now there's an objective post!

 

You choose to believe unionist leaders, and a politician whose top priority is to deny catalans a say in their own future. Salmond and Sturgeon don't have to come up with any "credible" alternative plan. Don't you believe the numbers that this very poll show?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Jaggernaut

[kni]

Now there's an objective post!

 

You choose believe unionist leaders, and a politician who's top priority is to deny catalans a say in their own future. Salmond and Sturgeon don't have to come up with any "credible" alternative plan. Don't you believe the numbers that this very poll show?

 

The Unionist leaders and the politician (Barroso) have the power to say no. They were always going to say no to currency union and EU membership. The numbers in this poll or any other poll are irrelevant.

 

I have repeatedly stated my support for an independent Scotland outside the EU and with its own currency. The SNP will have to offer that package as Cameron and Barroso will not back down.

[Jaggernaut]

The Unionist leaders and the politician (Barroso) have the power to say no. They were always going to say no to currency union and EU membership. The numbers in this poll or any other poll are irrelevant.

 

I have repeatedly stated my support for an independent Scotland outside the EU and with its own currency. The SNP will have to offer that package as Cameron and Barroso will not back down.

 

Whether they back down or not remains to be seen. Politicians often do U-turns, as you know; after they've promised A, it turns to be B. Just ask those who voted Lib Dem last time around. The SNP will not "have to" offer your dream package. They might well do so, but I doubt it. In any case, you are more likely to get your dream package by voting YES and then working for it. By voting NO you'd never get even the faintest whiff of it.

[Norgethistle]

Whether they back down or not remains to be seen. Politicians often do U-turns, as you know; after they've promised A, it turns to be B. Just ask those who voted Lib Dem last time around. The SNP will not "have to" offer your dream package. They might well do so, but I doubt it. In any case, you are more likely to get your dream package by voting YES and then working for it. By voting NO you'd never get even the faintest whiff of it.

 

I think the U-turn will be done by the SNP, lets see what Alex promised

• We will keep the sterling WRONG
  
• We will get straight into Europe WRONG
  

He is playing a dangerous game by threatening that Scotland will not honour its part of the national debt, that will veto Scotland from Europe and could put all pensions in Scotland in peril as that value could be offset towards part of the debt, he has no Plan-B and the white paper is fast falling apart....... like his career and his party on the morning of the 15th of October

[kni]

Whether they back down or not remains to be seen. Politicians often do U-turns, as you know; after they've promised A, it turns to be B. Just ask those who voted Lib Dem last time around. The SNP will not "have to" offer your dream package. They might well do so, but I doubt it. In any case, you are more likely to get your dream package by voting YES and then working for it. By voting NO you'd never get even the faintest whiff of it.

 

Where have I said that I will vote no? My main worry is that Salmond and Sturgeon will get stuffed in any negotiations. As Norgethistle, says, they have no Plan B are are totally out of their depth. We deserve better than to be run by those idiotic numpties who just bullsh*t us when faced with uncomfortable truths that they don;t like or even understand.

[Jaggernaut]

I think the U-turn will be done by the SNP, lets see what Alex promised

• We will keep the sterling WRONG
  
• We will get straight into Europe WRONG
  

He is playing a dangerous game by threatening that Scotland will not honour its part of the national debt, that will veto Scotland from Europe and could put all pensions in Scotland in peril as that value could be offset towards part of the debt, he has no Plan-B and the white paper is fast falling apart....... like his career and his party on the morning of the 15th of October

A perfect example of bitter together.

 

What's the point of the big red letters? Nobody has been proved right or wrong. Just because your britnat heroes say there will be no currency union does NOT mean that Scotland will not use sterling. So you are WRONG (as you like to shout). Only one guy with a clear internal agenda has made threatening noises about Scotland not getting "straight" into Europe. Believe him if you like, but there is no evidence that he is right, and other experts strongly suggest that he (and you) are WRONG.

 

And Salmond is the one who is threatening?

 

Hahahahahahahahah!

 

Your post is another example of bitter together supporters panicking fast, and repeating threats and assertions in the hope that somehow that makes them true.

 

How do you feel about the result of this poll so far, given that we can expect Jags fans to be a fairly representative sample of voters?

[Jaggernaut]

Where have I said that I will vote no? My main worry is that Salmond and Sturgeon will get stuffed in any negotiations. As Norgethistle, says, they have no Plan B are are totally out of their depth. We deserve better than to be run by those idiotic numpties who just bullsh*t us when faced with uncomfortable truths that they don;t like or even understand.

 

I didn't say that you will vote no. (Although my guess is that you will, regardless of what happens).

 

Plan B? Ask the britnats what their plan B is, and they stick their fingers in their ears and say "Nanananananananan", don't want to hear. Well, in my opinion they had better start thinking about it soon.

[kni]

I didn't say that you will vote no. (Although my guess is that you will, regardless of what happens).

 

Plan B? Ask the britnats what their plan B is, and they stick their fingers in their ears and say "Nanananananananan", don't want to hear. Well, in my opinion they had better start thinking about it soon.

 

What a load rubbish! I would vote Yes to get Scotland out of EU and have its own currency but the SNP may bottle having a vote on their failed plans. I would, however. vote No if Salmond and Sturgeon get their wish to take Scotland into the EU and/or a currency union with the Bank Of England. The SNP doesn't want real independence, just fiscal and financial dependence on England and the EU.

 

There is no need for the unionists, or Eurrophiles, to have a plan B. Plan A, to tell Salmond and Sturgeon to get stuffed, is working just fine all because those SNP numpties are out of their depth and have no negotiation strategy. Their whole plan has been based on the Jim Sillars' so-called plan for "independence" (sic) inside the EU. That is not possible according to EU treaties and inside politics so they are, as Father Ted would say, well and truly "fecked".

 

Frankly, the SNP idiots would bankrupt us through their ignorance and sheer incompetence. Our fellow Scots deserve better than to be governed by the self-serving, egotistical nonentities in Holyrood who have failed us miserably.

[Norgethistle]

A perfect example of bitter together.

 

What's the point of the big red letters? Nobody has been proved right or wrong. Just because your britnat heroes say there will be no currency union does NOT mean that Scotland will not use sterling. So you are WRONG (as you like to shout). Only one guy with a clear internal agenda has made threatening noises about Scotland not getting "straight" into Europe. Believe him if you like, but there is no evidence that he is right, and other experts strongly suggest that he (and you) are WRONG.

 

And Salmond is the one who is threatening?

 

Hahahahahahahahah!

 

Your post is another example of bitter together supporters panicking fast, and repeating threats and assertions in the hope that somehow that makes them true.

 

How do you feel about the result of this poll so far, given that we can expect Jags fans to be a fairly representative sample of voters?

 

If the rUK state Scotland cannot use their currency then how is Scotland going to use Sterling? just because big Alex said we could!!!!, in response Sturgeon stated they would not honor the debt, to which they will be vetoed from entering the EU (A potential bonus to be honest)

 

The white paper is getting shot to bits now, as is the campaign and NO have barely started getting warmed up and Alex and Nicola are clearly out their depth

[Guy Incognito]

The Unionist leaders and the politician (Barroso) have the power to say no. They were always going to say no to currency union and EU membership. The numbers in this poll or any other poll are irrelevant.

 

I have repeatedly stated my support for an independent Scotland outside the EU and with its own currency. The SNP will have to offer that package as Cameron and Barroso will not back down.

 

Then, presumably, the latest turn of events will be music to your ears. No pound and no EU - what's to stop you voting Yes now?

 

As much as I think Gideon is bluffing, there is some strand of logic to his stance. Barroso's stance, however, is completely nonsensical. The EU has just welcomed Bulgaria and Romania with open arms and we are expected to believe that Scotland, a country whose citizens have been part of the EU for forty years, will find it 'almost possible' to be admitted?

 

Plus - and I have said this already on here - where would that leave the tens of thousands of EU citizens who currently reside in Scotland, not to mention the Spanish fishing trawlers sailing around Scotland? Are they going to be abandoned? The fact that a completely unprepared East Germany was absorbed into the EU without anyone batting an eyelid at the time has also been ignored as well. Technically speaking, the Federal Republic of Germany was a brand new state.

 

That Andrew Marr interview was appallingly, almost laughably biased. Barroso - a politician who has his own secessionist worries to contend with, in case we forget - was asked a clearly leading question by Marr, who then failed to ask him to expand on it.

 

 

[Jaggernaut]

What a load rubbish! I would vote Yes to get Scotland out of EU and have its own currency but the SNP may bottle having a vote on their failed plans. I would, however. vote No if Salmond and Sturgeon get their wish to take Scotland into the EU and/or a currency union with the Bank Of England. The SNP doesn't want real independence, just fiscal and financial dependence on England and the EU.

 

There is no need for the unionists, or Eurrophiles, to have a plan B. Plan A, to tell Salmond and Sturgeon to get stuffed, is working just fine all because those SNP numpties are out of their depth and have no negotiation strategy. Their whole plan has been based on the Jim Sillars' so-called plan for "independence" (sic) inside the EU. That is not possible according to EU treaties and inside politics so they are, as Father Ted would say, well and truly "fecked".

 

Frankly, the SNP idiots would bankrupt us through their ignorance and sheer incompetence. Our fellow Scots deserve better than to be governed by the self-serving, egotistical nonentities in Holyrood who have failed us miserably.

 

Rubbish? I think your post has just confirmed to everybody what I wrote: you will probably vote "no" regardless of what happens between now and the referendum, because what the SNP are offering is not your dream scenario. Do you only vote for political parties that offer you everything that you want?

[Jaggernaut]

Then, presumably, the latest turn of events will be music to your ears. No pound and no EU - what's to stop you voting Yes now?

 

As much as I think Gideon is bluffing, there is some strand of logic to his stance. Barroso's stance, however, is completely nonsensical. The EU has just welcomed Bulgaria and Romania with open arms and we are expected to believe that Scotland, a country whose citizens have been part of the EU for forty years, will find it 'almost possible' to be admitted?

 

Plus - and I have said this already on here - where would that leave the tens of thousands of EU citizens who currently reside in Scotland, not to mention the Spanish fishing trawlers sailing around Scotland? Are they going to be abandoned? The fact that a completely unprepared East Germany was absorbed into the EU without anyone batting an eyelid at the time has also been ignored as well. Technically speaking, the Federal Republic of Germany was a brand new state.

 

That Andrew Marr interview was appallingly, almost laughably biased. Barroso - a politician who has his own secessionist worries to contend with, in case we forget - was asked a clearly leading question by Marr, who then failed to ask him to expand on it.

 

Based on their performances on tv, I would say that agents Marr and Neil are Scotland-haters. Not just anti-independence (that's up to them), but actual Scotland-haters, of the worst kind.

[Norgethistle]

Rubbish? I think your post has just confirmed to everybody what I wrote: you will probably vote "no" regardless of what happens between now and the referendum, because what the SNP are offering is not your dream scenario. Do you only vote for political parties that offer you everything that you want?

 

What the SNP is offering in the white paper isn't a dream its pure fantasy

[Guy Incognito]

 

 

What a load rubbish! I would vote Yes to get Scotland out of EU and have its own currency but the SNP may bottle having a vote on their failed plans. I would, however. vote No if Salmond and Sturgeon get their wish to take Scotland into the EU and/or a currency union with the Bank Of England. The SNP doesn't want real independence, just fiscal and financial dependence on England and the EU.

 

There is no need for the unionists, or Eurrophiles, to have a plan B. Plan A, to tell Salmond and Sturgeon to get stuffed, is working just fine all because those SNP numpties are out of their depth and have no negotiation strategy. Their whole plan has been based on the Jim Sillars' so-called plan for "independence" (sic) inside the EU. That is not possible according to EU treaties and inside politics so they are, as Father Ted would say, well and truly "fecked".

 

Frankly, the SNP idiots would bankrupt us through their ignorance and sheer incompetence. Our fellow Scots deserve better than to be governed by the self-serving, egotistical nonentities in Holyrood who have failed us miserably.

 

Wooaaahh! Steady on there! 'Failed us miserably'?! That is extremely harsh. I am not a member of the SNP and disagree with many of their policies but I think they have done a more than decent job during their time in power, and all on a fixed budget handed to them by Westminster (which looks set to be cut).

 

Like or loathe Salmond, I would trust him ahead of any of the venal Westminster establishment any day of the week, because for all his faults I think it is clear that his priority is what he believes is best for Scotland, not riding the Westminster gravy train to a seat in the House of Lords. Now, I don't necessarily agree with his all his ideas for achieving that, but I think he and his party are in this whole game for the right reasons.

 

But if they did make a c*nt of things, then guess what? We could vote them out and get somebody else in! That's the beauty of democracy. And for change it would be a party that Scotland actually voted for, each and every time.

 

As for not having a Plan B, do you seriously believe that? I am certain they have a Plan B, and most probably an plan C too, but you can bet your boots if they reveal it too soon then before you know it we will have "independent" think-tanks and "impartial" civil servants picking it to pieces.

[Jaggernaut]

Wooaaahh! Steady on there! 'Failed us miserably'?! That is extremely harsh. I am not a member of the SNP and disagree with many of their policies but I think they have done a more than decent job during their time in power, and all on a fixed budget handed to them by Westminster (which looks set to be cut).

 

Like or loathe Salmond, I would trust him ahead of any of the venal Westminster establishment any day of the week, because for all his faults I think it is clear that his priority is what he believes is best for Scotland, not riding the Westminster gravy train to a seat in the House of Lords. Now, I don't necessarily agree with his all his ideas for achieving that, but I think he and his party are in this whole game for the right reasons.

 

But if they did make a c*nt of things, then guess what? We could vote them out and get somebody else in! That's the beauty of democracy. And for change it would be a party that Scotland actually voted for, each and every time.

 

As for not having a Plan B, do you seriously believe that? I am certain they have a Plan B, and most probably an plan C too, but you can bet your boots if they reveal it too soon then before you know it we will have "independent" think-tanks and "impartial" civil servants picking it to pieces.

 

Of course they will; because they are much, much smarter than the britnats whose reaction to anything about the Yes campaign is to (i) slag off Alex Salmond (because they confuse the SNP and independence), and (ii) stick their fingers in their ears and say "Nanananananana……fantasy fantasy……. nanananananana."

Edited February 16, 2014 by Jaggernaut

[Norgethistle]

Of course they will; because they are much, much smarter than the britnats whose reaction to anything about the Yes campaign is to (i) slag off Alex Salmond (because they confuse the SNP and independence), and (ii) stick their fingers in their ears and say "Nanananananana……fantasy fantasy……. nanananananana."

 

Which is exactly your argument to the NO campaign

[Norgethistle]

Slightly off topic but this vote could lead to massive unrest in Scotland regardless what way it goes, with 8 months to go its starting to get very heated both from the politicians and the general public. Its really starting to polarize the general population which is not a good thing

[kni]

Rubbish? I think your post has just confirmed to everybody what I wrote: you will probably vote "no" regardless of what happens between now and the referendum, because what the SNP are offering is not your dream scenario. Do you only vote for political parties that offer you everything that you want?

 

I only vote for parties who capable of delivering their manifestos and promises. Salmond and Sturgeon have tried to bully the British government and EU to accept their terms. However, Arrogant Alex and Nutty Nicola cannot accept that their bluff has been called.

 

My "dream" scenario of true independence is readily achievable. The Swiss have just called the EU's bluff on immigration. Let's have our own sovereign Parliament, a freely floating currency on the international markets and control over our own borders and courts.

[Jaggernaut]

What people who swallow the "no bbc", "no currency union", "no pensions", "border guards", "no defence jobs" etc claptrap don't seem to realise is that britnats have no other option than to say these things. They have no other option than to say them, but they know that they are patently untrue. Of course an independent Scotland (and rUK) will most probably share the pound, of course Scottish pensions will be safe (probably safer than in rUK), of course there will be no border between Scotland and England, of course Scottish industry will include a defence sector. But by admitting that all of these are not just possible but almost certain, the britnats would be seen in public to acknowledge the fact that an independent Scotland will be a thriving and successful country that is no longer getting shafted by England for its own selfish purposes. And of course they've brainwashed many otherwise reasonable people into either believing (sad) or simply parroting (even sadder) the same claptrap.

[Norgethistle]

What people who swallow the "no bbc", "no currency union", "no pensions", "border guards", "no defence jobs" etc claptrap don't seem to realise is that britnats have no other option than to say these things. They have no other option than to say them, but they know that they are patently untrue. Of course an independent Scotland (and rUK) will most probably share the pound, of course Scottish pensions will be safe (probably safer than in rUK), of course there will be no border between Scotland and England, of course Scottish industry will include a defence sector. But by admitting that all of these are not just possible but almost certain, the britnats would be seen in public to acknowledge the fact that an independent Scotland will be a thriving and successful country that is no longer getting shafted by England for its own selfish purposes. And of course they've brainwashed many otherwise reasonable people into either believing (sad) or simply parroting (even sadder) the same claptrap.

 

Have you been reading newspapers, listining to the radio or watching tv for the last 10 days???

 

The UK government has stated there will be no currency union if Scotland leaves the UK, so no matter what Salmond wishes for he won't get it

The head of the EU has stated there will be no automatic entry for Scotland and the process could take years

 

If Scotland is not part of the UK and not part of Europe (EU) there is nothing to stop the rUK putting borders up, EU may insist on it to ensure non EU citizens (Scots) do not enter the eurozone unhindered, especially if the taxrate in one country is significantly different to the other (Like Sweden and Norway)

If Scotland is not part of the UK why would it get defence contracts for the rUK if the capacity and capability is down south?? The UK currently tries to keep as much of its defense contracts within the UK, that won't change as does Europe attampt to keep within the EU

The BBC is funded by the UK licence payer, how will that work if we are not part of the UK? we may get the same deal as I have here with BBC that it is a payed add on channel for BBC Europe

 

Also how is the passport situation going to work? If we don't have a fiscal union will we have passport union, this hasn't been addressed but needs to be.

 

The pensions how's that going to work? the pensions are paid from the UK pot, now if Scotland pulls out will they get their share especially as wee Nic has stated they will not honor Scotlands part of the debt?

 

Too many grey areas in the white paper and "Hope & See" for me to vote YES

[Jaggernaut]

Have you been reading newspapers, listining to the radio or watching tv for the last 10 days???

 

The UK government has stated there will be no currency union if Scotland leaves the UK, so no matter what Salmond wishes for he won't get it --DID YOU READ MY POST? THEY CANNOT SAY OTHERWISE, LEST THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND WILL BE ABLE TO USE IT. IF THEY DON'T ADMIT IT, THE GAME IS ALREADY UP FOR THEM.

The head of the EU has stated there will be no automatic entry for Scotland and the process could take years -- THAT'S HIS PERSONAL OPINION; HE CANNOT SAY OTHERWISE BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID OF CATALONIA.

 

If Scotland is not part of the UK and not part of Europe (EU) there is nothing to stop the rUK putting borders up, EU may insist on it to ensure non EU citizens (Scots) do not enter the eurozone unhindered, especially if the taxrate in one country is significantly different to the other (Like Sweden and Norway)--NOBODY IN THE EU HAS EVER SUGGESTED THIS. WHY ARE THERE NO BORDERS BETWEEN IRELAND AND THE UK, BUT UNIQUELY THERE WILL BE FOR SCOTLAND? PROJECT FEAR.

If Scotland is not part of the UK why would it get defence contracts for the rUK if the capacity and capability is down south?? The UK currently tries to keep as much of its defense contracts within the UK, that won't change as does Europe attampt to keep within the EU; UK DEFENCE BUYS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHEN IT IS SUITABLE. JUST LOOK AT THE NEW PLANES FOR THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER (WHICH THE UK CANNOT AFFORD): THEY WILL BE AMERICAN. THE NUCLEAR MISSILES ARE AMERICAN. A RECENT PUBLICATION REVEALED THAT OVER 750 DEFENCE VEHICLES HAVE BEEN BOUGHT FROM THE US, BECAUSE BRITAIN ISN'T MAKING ANY. AND THERE IS MORE TO SHIPBUILDING THAN MILITARY ORDERS.

The BBC is funded by the UK licence payer, how will that work if we are not part of the UK? we may get the same deal as I have here with BBC that it is a payed add on channel for BBC Europe: SO WHAT?

 

Also how is the passport situation going to work? If we don't have a fiscal union will we have passport union, this hasn't been addressed but needs to be. THAT IS THE LEAST OF THE PROBLEMS. IF YOU QUALIFY, YOU WILL HAVE A SCOTTISH PASSPORT IF YOU WANT ONE. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR BRITISH PASSPORT, YOU CAN.

 

The pensions how's that going to work? the pensions are paid from the UK pot, now if Scotland pulls out will they get their share especially as wee Nic has stated they will not honor Scotlands part of the debt? AH, "WEE NIC". NO REAL ARGUMENTS, SO JUST INSULT. DON'T YOU THINK THAT SCOTS WOULD BE ENTITLED TO THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE PENSION POT? IF rUK TRIED TO KEEP IT, THEN WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WANT TO STAY PART OF IT?

 

Too many grey areas in the white paper and "Hope & See" for me to vote YES; UP TO YOU. BUT MY FEELING IS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN "NO" ALL ALONG, WHICH IS ALSO UP TO YOU, OF COURSE.

[Jaggernaut]

I only vote for parties who capable of delivering their manifestos and promises. Salmond and Sturgeon have tried to bully the British government and EU to accept their terms. However, Arrogant Alex and Nutty Nicola cannot accept that their bluff has been called.

 

My "dream" scenario of true independence is readily achievable. The Swiss have just called the EU's bluff on immigration. Let's have our own sovereign Parliament, a freely floating currency on the international markets and control over our own borders and courts.

 

You don't half write **** at times. Name me a party that you've voted for that has delivered on all its manifestos and promises. That party does not not exist. Salmond and Sturgeon cannot bully anybody. The Westminster establishment have been bullying Scotland non-stop, starting with they might bomb our airports, to we'll lost the right to call ourselves British if we want, to rUK companies will not want to trade with an independent Scotland (but they will trade with any other country), etc. etc.

 

Your dream scenario will never, ever come to pass if Scotland is owned by England (and that is what it has come down to, with no hint of shame from Westminster). A YES vote just might move Scotland nearer to what you would like (though personally I would not hold up Switzerland as my dream scenario).

[Norgethistle]

Have you been reading newspapers, listining to the radio or watching tv for the last 10 days???

 

The UK government has stated there will be no currency union if Scotland leaves the UK, so no matter what Salmond wishes for he won't get it --DID YOU READ MY POST? THEY CANNOT SAY OTHERWISE, LEST THEY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AN INDEPENDENT SCOTLAND WILL BE ABLE TO USE IT. IF THEY DON'T ADMIT IT, THE GAME IS ALREADY UP FOR THEM. They are stating how it will be, they hold the cards and its up to them whether we play

The head of the EU has stated there will be no automatic entry for Scotland and the process could take years -- THAT'S HIS PERSONAL OPINION; HE CANNOT SAY OTHERWISE BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID OF CATALONIA. No Scotland will have to re-apply other countries including Romania have already mentioned this

 

If Scotland is not part of the UK and not part of Europe (EU) there is nothing to stop the rUK putting borders up, EU may insist on it to ensure non EU citizens (Scots) do not enter the eurozone unhindered, especially if the taxrate in one country is significantly different to the other (Like Sweden and Norway)--NOBODY IN THE EU HAS EVER SUGGESTED THIS. WHY ARE THERE NO BORDERS BETWEEN IRELAND AND THE UK, BUT UNIQUELY THERE WILL BE FOR SCOTLAND? PROJECT FEAR. Both countries are part of the EU

If Scotland is not part of the UK why would it get defence contracts for the rUK if the capacity and capability is down south?? The UK currently tries to keep as much of its defense contracts within the UK, that won't change as does Europe attampt to keep within the EU; UK DEFENCE BUYS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES WHEN IT IS SUITABLE. JUST LOOK AT THE NEW PLANES FOR THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER (WHICH THE UK CANNOT AFFORD): THEY WILL BE AMERICAN. THE NUCLEAR MISSILES ARE AMERICAN. A RECENT PUBLICATION REVEALED THAT OVER 750 DEFENCE VEHICLES HAVE BEEN BOUGHT FROM THE US, BECAUSE BRITAIN ISN'T MAKING ANY.Given the choice between a rUK yard and an independant Scotland one the rUK will always give to their own AND THERE IS MORE TO SHIPBUILDING THAN MILITARY ORDERS.Yes we can build lots of car ferries for Cal-Mac that will boost the economy

The BBC is funded by the UK licence payer, how will that work if we are not part of the UK? we may get the same deal as I have here with BBC that it is a payed add on channel for BBC Europe: SO WHAT? You mentioned not having BBC was a scare tactic

 

Also how is the passport situation going to work? If we don't have a fiscal union will we have passport union, this hasn't been addressed but needs to be. THAT IS THE LEAST OF THE PROBLEMS. IF YOU QUALIFY, YOU WILL HAVE A SCOTTISH PASSPORT IF YOU WANT ONE. IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR BRITISH PASSPORT, YOU CAN.Who will pay for the 4,000,000 passports??

 

The pensions how's that going to work? the pensions are paid from the UK pot, now if Scotland pulls out will they get their share especially as wee Nic has stated they will not honor Scotlands part of the debt? AH, "WEE NIC". NO REAL ARGUMENTS, SO JUST INSULT. DON'T YOU THINK THAT SCOTS WOULD BE ENTITLED TO THEIR FAIR SHARE OF THE PENSION POT? IF rUK TRIED TO KEEP IT, THEN WHY WOULD YOU EVEN WANT TO STAY PART OF IT? Don't you think the UK is entitled to Scotlands share of the debt?

 

Too many grey areas in the white paper and "Hope & See" for me to vote YES; UP TO YOU. BUT MY FEELING IS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN "NO" ALL ALONG, WHICH IS ALSO UP TO YOU, OF COURSE. Nope was quite open at the initial start but getting more and more NO with the crap coming from the SNP

[JeanieD]

Is the choice now between a fictitious and undefined "Devo. Max" and an increasingly vague "Independy Lite"?

 

 

Plus ca change plus c'est la meme choise?(pardon my French)

[kni]

You don't half write **** at times. Name me a party that you've voted for that has delivered on all its manifestos and promises. That party does not not exist. Salmond and Sturgeon cannot bully anybody. The Westminster establishment have been bullying Scotland non-stop, starting with they might bomb our airports, to we'll lost the right to call ourselves British if we want, to rUK companies will not want to trade with an independent Scotland (but they will trade with any other country), etc. etc.

 

Your dream scenario will never, ever come to pass if Scotland is owned by England (and that is what it has come down to, with no hint of shame from Westminster). A YES vote just might move Scotland nearer to what you would like (though personally I would not hold up Switzerland as my dream scenario).

 

You seem to forget that I support real independence (from the EU too) and a new Scottish currency. That's not a dream, it's the real result of Scotland voting Yes in October so, in that case, why on earth would I vote No? However, Salmond and Sturgeon are refusing to accept, never mind plan for, that reality. They want Scotland to retain the Pound and stay in the EU.

 

If Scotland retains the Pound Sterling, the Bank of England will control the Scotland's economy via the SNP's desired fiscal treaty. Such a treaty would set out a full fiscal regime (tax and spending) that the Scottish Parliament and government will have to adhere to. If Scotland is in the EU, our laws and courts will be controlled by the Brussels bureaucrats and the MEPs of the other 26 countries. And the SNP calls that independence!

 

An independent Scotland, however, could join Norway, Switzerland and Iceland in EFTA rather than the EU. They are members of European Economic Area and have access to the Single Market. Switzerland also has an agreement for freedom of movement with the EU too. IIRC Norway does too. However, I would prefer simple free trade agreement with the EU so that Scotland can retain full national control of its borders and courts.

 

Btw, what's wrong with Switzerland? Have you been there or know the country? Residents enjoy beautiful scenery and a fantastic quality of life in addition to economic prosperity. The GDP Per Capita World Rankings are

 

Norway - 3rd by World Bank, 4th by IMF

Switzerland - 5th by World Bank, 7th by IMF

United Kingdom - 21st by World Bank and IMF

 

Switzerland also has very democratic system of national and local government, a total anathema to the unelected bureaucrats in the European Commission. Remember what happened when the Dutch, French and Irish voted to reject the original EU constitution? We got a the Lisbon Treaty, the constitution in another form. The Irish rejected that too but had to vote again.

Edited February 17, 2014 by kni