paralytic thistle Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not that it would have made any difference, but since we all seen the boy smashing a free kick in the first half, shouldn't fox have told someone to stand on the post for the second one? Anybody there would have had an easy header away. then there would be no off side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andynptfc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 then there would be no off side He was hardly going to cross it from the edge of the box in the centre of goal is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paralytic thistle Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 He was hardly going to cross it from the edge of the box in the centre of goal is he? i did not say that, i said there would be no celtic player off side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andynptfc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 i did not say that, i said there would be no celtic player off side. So is it better to just leave 3/4 of the goal totally ungaurded when we know he can easily bend the ball over the wall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Not that it would have made any difference, but since we all seen the boy smashing a free kick in the first half, shouldn't fox have told someone to stand on the post for the second one? Anybody there would have had an easy header away. They'd have to be 6 foot 8, and have a pretty hard head, to get behind that. That one wasn't stopping. I'm going to put myself in the 'red card was a little harsh' camp. The ref looked keen to get himself noticed, and that's how they tend to do it. Was another daft challenge by Bannigan though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paralytic thistle Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 So is it better to just leave 3/4 of the goal totally ungaurded when we know he can easily bend the ball over the wall? again i did not say that, please do not extend my statement, all i posted was, no celtic player would be off side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andynptfc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 again i did not say that, please do not extend my statement, all i posted was, no celtic player would be off side I do understand the offside rule, thanks. I'm trying to figure out what point you're trying to make. Is it only about offside? Or does it relate in any way to my original point that I think a guy on the line could have cleared the free kick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think the point is that if you automatically play everyone onside most teams could work a simple free kick routine that would result in an excellent scoring opportunity. You can't just drop someone back onto the line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andynptfc Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think the point is that if you automatically play everyone onside most teams could work a simple free kick routine that would result in an excellent scoring opportunity. You can't just drop someone back onto the line... I get what your saying but i dont agree. If you pack everyone in front of the goal i feel it would be harder to score if they had to work it short. How many times do you see teams scoring from an in-direct free-kick in the box? I just feel leaving an almost open goal for a player, who we've just seen can easily beat the wall, was only ever going to end up in one place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Our pre-match confidence and subsequent shock is obviously down to Celtic's indifferent form this season, but the home loss to Hamilton appears to be the kick up the arse Deila needed before he'd started taking things seriously. They'd scored nine and conceded just the one in the three games between that match and last night. Edited October 30, 2014 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Two things that bug me most about last night are that 1) we were battling away, passing and running, and competing well in the game, until the red, and 2) we simply didn't have any spirit or leadership in the second half. Result - humiliation. It certainly looked that way. Not really irony but I don't believe we've a shortage of leaders within the squad. Two (Seaborne & McMillan) played 90 mins last night. I can only assume that the Bannigan sending off knocked the spirit completely out of the players and that's just not acceptable. I don't suppose that there's many, if indeed any of us, that could see us still progress after the sending off. So it's really the manner of defeat that sticks in the craw. We can't let this result affect us negatively. County don't look like they lost confidence after probably a worse hammering and Dundee Utd recovered right away after their hiding at Parkhead. That said if we've learnt anything from last night that we can put to positive use is I suspect being too hopeful. Btw on paper Bannigan's disciplinary record isn't that bad for a central midfielder. But having seen just about all of his yellow & red cards I feel far too many have been easily avoidable. Worryingly, when he should be gaining experience, his cautions have by and large gone from having an element of naivety about them to being plain stupid. Edited October 30, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottymagoo Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We got pumped but pretty much every team in the league takes a pumping off of Celtic (and previously Rangers) now and again because they have a huge financial advantage. It was inevitable it would happen to us at some point. Until we went down to ten men we were doing reasonably well and we can take some heart from this. After they scored the second we were always going to struggle and I don't have too many complaints. Maybe we could have kept the score down but why bust a gut losing 3 or 4-0 instead of 6 when goal difference doesn't count for anything in the cup and we have a league game on Saturday. I'm glad Higgy and Doolan got a run out rather than shoring up the defence as they're much more likely to make a difference on Saturday. Take something from the game at Hamilton and we can forget all about this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ok, so it was Celtic, but this kind of thing is now happening all to often. The buck stops with Archie as he is presiding over a shambles of his own making. No wonder we can't score when he keeps chopping and changing the centre forward! His loyalty to Foxy and Balatoni is a mystery and remember it was Archie that blew the biggest part of our budget on Stevo, most of his other recent signings have the air of last minute stop gaps, just to get us through to the end of the season. Never mind a us hiring a taxi to get Davie McParland to the games or naming a stand after him, we should really be offering the man his job back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graemei Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We are too easy to beat sometimes, need to be far harder to break down than that, would have rather seen the development team play Celtic and rest the first team for Hamilton. Having said that, Celtic are starting to come together under Deila and not surprised they've put 5 past County and 6 past a 10-man Jags side. Definitely a huge improvement from the start of the season from them. As for the red card, seen players stay on after tackles like that, but the red card was probably deserved. Silly boy, looked liked studs were up, could have still slid in and gone about it totally differently. Diddy cup anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It was a sore one and a disappointing performance but I'm not as concerned by it as others seem to be. Up until the sending off, the game was pretty even with the teams only separated by a moment of quality from Guidetti. Celtic were quick on the counter and with one man less, they had plenty of time and space to cut us open which they did to good effect. Bannigan is taking a fair amount of criticism which isn't entirely undeserved; his temperament is (and has been for a while) becoming an issue. My initial view of the incident was obstructed by one of the pillars but it looked like he dived in at the time and on second viewing on television, I don't have many complaints although I don't think many will dispute that 20 years ago, it would have been a yellow at most - that however is irrelevant and it was a silly tackle to make in such an innocuous position. He had dived in on a couple of occasions prior to that and should have been told to put a lid on it earlier. Once he's sent off, the game is over as a contest. Had it been a league game, it would have been wise to shut up shop, get everyone behind the ball and try to nick a goal on a counter but with it being a cup fixture, the management and team obviously have a duty to continue to attack and get back into the game and that played right into Celtic's hands. I thought it was a foul for the first goal at the time and it was another needless tackle from Osman who was a bit rash throughout the game; thought it was a stick-on penalty too and he's giving the referee the opportunity to make easy decisions. The sixth goal is a bit of a blunder from Fox but that aside, I know that I'm in an increasing majority who prefer Gallacher as our goalkeeper. Never in my life have I watched a goalkeeper as quiet as Fox and if he commanded his area better, he wouldn't need to make as many saves. Defensively, we look a lot more sound with Gallacher in goal and if we can partner Frans with Seaborne in front of him, we should be a fair bit tighter at the back. How Craigen finished the game, I have no idea. Barring an early chance in the first half, he contributed absolutely nothing and chased shadows all night. His defensive game is fairly poor, exemplified by leaving Lustig completely unmarked from a throw-in in the first half allowing him a free run into our box. This was then accentuated when he had to sit deeper due to Bannigan's dismissal - why Archie didn't replace him with Stevenson or bring Carroll on/move McMillan into the sitting role, I don't know. Eccleston doesn't suit our style of play and I won't be surprised to see him leave in January. If we played a more direct style, we might see a bit more of him as he looks to play on the shoulder of the defender but I don't anticipate that happening. Last night wasn't the occasion to start him either; he made it a very easy night for Van Dijk and Denayer. On the plus side, at least Doolan will be ready to go for Hamilton. I don't have any doubts that we'll bounce back. It was a bad night at the office and obviously disappointing for those who thought that we could possibly nick the win but let's not overstate the result; Celtic will take five, six, possibly more off better teams than us this season. With important players coming back and a run of winnable games, a few subtle changes in personnel could see us have a good November. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Funny how things change, at one time football fans would never have used the term "a bad day at the office" , changing working lifes and shifts in the make up of the audience have led to this, so thankfully we won't be having any more "trouble at mill". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The buck stops with Archie as he is presiding over a shambles of his own making. No wonder we can't score... We've actually scored more in our first ten league games than we did last season. Do people bother to check stats before posting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Funny how things change, at one time football fans would never have used the term "a bad day at the office" , changing working lifes and shifts in the make up of the audience have led to this, so thankfully we won't be having any more "trouble at mill". Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 We've actually scored more in our first ten league games than we did last season. Do people bother to check stats before posting? No, I'm not a bean counter by nature, prefer watching the game. I have though, over time come to the conclusion, that Archie is not a very good manager, sorry that I have not got any statistics to back it up yet, will relegation do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It was a sore one and a disappointing performance but I'm not as concerned by it as others seem to be. Up until the sending off, the game was pretty even with the teams only separated by a moment of quality from Guidetti. Celtic were quick on the counter and with one man less, they had plenty of time and space to cut us open which they did to good effect. Bannigan is taking a fair amount of criticism which isn't entirely undeserved; his temperament is (and has been for a while) becoming an issue. My initial view of the incident was obstructed by one of the pillars but it looked like he dived in at the time and on second viewing on television, I don't have many complaints although I don't think many will dispute that 20 years ago, it would have been a yellow at most - that however is irrelevant and it was a silly tackle to make in such an innocuous position. He had dived in on a couple of occasions prior to that and should have been told to put a lid on it earlier. Once he's sent off, the game is over as a contest. Had it been a league game, it would have been wise to shut up shop, get everyone behind the ball and try to nick a goal on a counter but with it being a cup fixture, the management and team obviously have a duty to continue to attack and get back into the game and that played right into Celtic's hands. I thought it was a foul for the first goal at the time and it was another needless tackle from Osman who was a bit rash throughout the game; thought it was a stick-on penalty too and he's giving the referee the opportunity to make easy decisions. The sixth goal is a bit of a blunder from Fox but that aside, I know that I'm in an increasing majority who prefer Gallacher as our goalkeeper. Never in my life have I watched a goalkeeper as quiet as Fox and if he commanded his area better, he wouldn't need to make as many saves. Defensively, we look a lot more sound with Gallacher in goal and if we can partner Frans with Seaborne in front of him, we should be a fair bit tighter at the back. How Craigen finished the game, I have no idea. Barring an early chance in the first half, he contributed absolutely nothing and chased shadows all night. His defensive game is fairly poor, exemplified by leaving Lustig completely unmarked from a throw-in in the first half allowing him a free run into our box. This was then accentuated when he had to sit deeper due to Bannigan's dismissal - why Archie didn't replace him with Stevenson or bring Carroll on/move McMillan into the sitting role, I don't know. Eccleston doesn't suit our style of play and I won't be surprised to see him leave in January. If we played a more direct style, we might see a bit more of him as he looks to play on the shoulder of the defender but I don't anticipate that happening. Last night wasn't the occasion to start him either; he made it a very easy night for Van Dijk and Denayer. On the plus side, at least Doolan will be ready to go for Hamilton. I don't have any doubts that we'll bounce back. It was a bad night at the office and obviously disappointing for those who thought that we could possibly nick the win but let's not overstate the result; Celtic will take five, six, possibly more off better teams than us this season. With important players coming back and a run of winnable games, a few subtle changes in personnel could see us have a good November. A good, sensible, balanced post. My main concern is that the subtle changes won't be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 No, I'm not a bean counter by nature, prefer watching the game. I have though, over time come to the conclusion, that Archie is not a very good manager, sorry that I have not got any statistics to back it up yet, will relegation do? If we, and those around us, accumulate the same (or a similar) number of points that we have in the first quarter then that's not going to happen. I'm not going to press the panic button after one poor cup result that means sod all in the grand scheme of things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Last night was about as embarrassed as I’ve been for a good few seasons supporting the Jags. We are so easy to beat due to our predictability. Just like Dick Campbell was completely incapable of overturning Gretna, it would seem that Archie is just as tactically inept in his approaches to Celtic games. Celtic are not the team they were four or five seasons ago, as Hamilton, St. Johnstone and nearly every other Premiership team can attest too, yet we give them a ridiculous amount of respect. Our first half performance was alright, although we got absolutely nobody up in support of the striker meaning we had to resort to lumping the ball up through the middle and hoping for the best. It seemed we were just content to take the game to Extra-Time judging by the way we set up. An interesting statistic now reads that we are the worst disciplined team in the SPL, and at this moment, probably in the whole SPFL. With a small enough team as it is, Archie has to get his players in line as suspensions will take their toll. Overall a horrible night at the office, with the same mistakes and ineptitudes being made time after time. We really need to kick on now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Comparing Archie to Dick Campbell? Folks, this forum has just jumped the shark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Comparing Archie to Dick Campbell? Folks, this forum has just jumped the shark. I was merely drawing comparisons between the two in one instance and not in their overall record. We all know Archie is a better manager than Campbell, however that wouldn't be difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think it's an extremely unfair comparison and one that's way off the mark, quite frankly. Look at Archie's record against Celtic: a 1-2 loss at home, a 1-0 loss away, a 1-5 loss at home and a 6-0 away loss. The latter two results can be seen as aberrations - the first was on a night when Celtic were guaranteed the league title should they win. How many other teams have been steamrollered in similar circumstances? Last night's result was largely down to Bannigan's sending off. What's the point in 'shutting up shop' in a cup game? Last night was disappointing, sure, but some folk are overreacting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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