La Scimmia Rossa Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's fairly obvious to the level headed supporters that whilst it was a dreadful performance, it's hardly the end of the world. The problem was there for all to see. When teams sit in, we struggle. The manager knows this, hence the reason he is trying to bring in a player who can open things up. We can't rely on Higgy. He is just not doing it. Whilst we did launch a number of long balls. We also played a decent amount of football. No cutting edge though. You can stamp your feet, throw your toys out of your pram, talk sh#te about the manager and his tactics but the reality is pretty simple. We are in the bottom half of the SPFL. That's our place in life. With that comes inconsistency and games like last night. It was the same under McParland, Auld and Lambie. Under those managers, there was also another feature. Fans that have unrealistically high expectations. The banner that wanted the Old Thistle not the Auld Thistle. The fans who wanted Lambie out when we went on that spectacularly bad run in our first season up. . Booth did fine last night. Frans did ok. Lawless tried hard. That's about it. We missed Seabourne's distribution, Elliot's endeavour and Craigen's fetching and carrying. Last night was rotten but at least it was rotten in the top flight. We've all watched much much much worse. Let's move on and look forward to the cup on Saturday. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It's fairly obvious to the level headed supporters that whilst it was a dreadful performance, it's hardly the end of the world. The problem was there for all to see. When teams sit in, we struggle. The manager knows this, hence the reason he is trying to bring in a player who can open things up. We can't rely on Higgy. He is just not doing it. Whilst we did launch a number of long balls. We also played a decent amount of football. No cutting edge though. You can stamp your feet, throw your toys out of your pram, talk sh#te about the manager and his tactics but the reality is pretty simple. We are in the bottom half of the SPFL. That's our place in life. With that comes inconsistency and games like last night. It was the same under McParland, Auld and Lambie. Under those managers, there was also another feature. Fans that have unrealistically high expectations. The banner that wanted the Old Thistle not the Auld Thistle. The fans who wanted Lambie out when we went on that spectacularly bad run in our first season up. . Booth did fine last night. Frans did ok. Lawless tried hard. That's about it. We missed Seabourne's distribution, Elliot's endeavour and Craigen's fetching and carrying. Last night was rotten but at least it was rotten in the top flight. We've all watched much much much worse. Let's move on and look forward to the cup on Saturday. I wondered when would appear with Seabourne but didn't expect it would be that we missed his 'distribution'!! What was wrong with him last night? Stubbed toe again? & if the manager knows this, is that the same thing as he knew we needed a left back for this season a year past in August when ATS said he was off? Remind how we did with that search again? It's not about McParland, Auld, Cormack, Johnstone, Lamont, Rooney, Lambie, Clark etc. or whoever else you want to bring up from your history books. It's the present, the here & now. The same mistakes occur again & again yet the manger always seem to remain untouchable in many folks eyes. Let's know our place eh? Aim low & avoid disappointment right? I'm guessing you're not ambitious in your professional life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Not if they have bagged a contract! True GRE. Do you know which ones have signed a pre-contract agreement apart from (allegedly) O'Donnell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Far too much sense for the Idiot Brigade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I remember in days gone by that people used to talk about "second season syndrome" and how often a team who had stayed up in their first season would then struggle and often went down (as we did in our last outing in the top flight). Now it seems if you are not winning every second week it is not good enough. We are still on course to stay up and in a higher position than last season (assuming that last night is not repeated every game from now on) so lets take a step back, clear our heads and get ready for the cup tie on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Of course I am ambitious on my professional life. However, I'm probably reasonably good at it because I have reasonable expectations of what my organisation can achieve with the resources, people and offering we have at our disposal. I've also learned in business one key thing. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. Ie. Luck. I also know that at any time, external factors could bring it crashing down around me. So , I try to live for the moment. You should try it. Aiming to be in the top ten teams in Scotland isn't aiming low. It's being realistic. The past is absolutely important because it reminds you where you've come from and why you do/ don't want to go back there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Of course I am ambitious on my professional life. However, I'm probably reasonably good at it because I have reasonable expectations of what my organisation can achieve with the resources, people and offering we have at our disposal. I've also learned in business one key thing. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. Ie. Luck. I also know that at any time, external factors could bring it crashing down around me. So , I try to live for the moment. You should try it. Aiming to be in the top ten teams in Scotland isn't aiming low. It's being realistic. The past is absolutely important because it reminds you where you've come from and why you do/ don't want to go back there. I do live for the moment. What's that saying? Here for a good time not a long time? As for being in top 10 teams in Scotland. I agree that's being realistic. Maybe you should inform some others on here of that who think that we shouldn't be there as Killie, St Mirren etc established. Shouldn't be unrealistic that we get ourselves in that 'established' bracket. The fact is that this is poorest SPL/best chance of consolidation due to mismanagement on & off pitch by a good number of established clubs. We have a better squad (resources) than last season but it seems the same mistakes continue to be made. There comes a time that you can't continue to point the finger at the 11 on the pitch as they're not the same as last season or season before but look at what is constant. That is the management team. Set piece defending with or without Seabourne is awful. It's a heart in mouth job every time a corner comes in. Then there's the tactics. Last night wasn't a one off even in last 5/6 weeks. Perth & Motherwell similar in sense that we seem to have no idea how to beak down a well organised defence. How often in your professional life do you as a paying customer give someone the benefit of the doubt when they continue to make the same mistake again & again? That itself (along with the price of admission) may explain why crowds (home & away) are down on last Season at Firhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 You need to get off your computer, go out and do something and forget about last night. If you're that upset then you are investing too much of your life in a football match (not to mention expecting too much from our team -we all know they are inconsistent) I don't like posts like this, people can post as much as they like and contribute. It is a football forum we are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Of course last night was disappointing - relegation might happen (it might not or we might be in a playoff - who knows?)- ironically Motherwell and Ross have both just equalised in their games gaining a point on us which perhaps compounds the hurt from last night but there is a distance to go as yet and 6 out of the remaining 15 games are against teams currently below us. The cup-tie next week will presumably come as a blessed relief for some on this forum as it has no impact on relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 As someone who's been to every home game and a fair number of away matches as well (so not an 'armchair fan', then) I' m bbewildered by the reaction of The Cup and BGM to last night. I get you guys care deeply about the club, but don't you think you need to get a grip? We're in the second season of our return to the top division, a time when a lot of clubs really struggle, yet we've improved on last season and, with the right personnel brought in, will likely improve yet again next season. Last night was appalling, but a week ago last Wednesday was fantastic. That's Thistle. I can't help feeling your intense dislike of our manager (is it something personal?) is blinding you to the reality of the club's position. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 A pity I've reached my quota of positive results for today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I can't help feeling your intense dislike of our manager (is it something personal?) is blinding you to the reality of the club's position. I don't know the man personally to dislike him. I could argue that it's a misplaced loyalty to him that sees others think that performances like last night are continually acceptable to paying customers. Dark Pissinger will be able to tell you how much more approximate this year's wage bill is compared to last & year before. He'll also probably be able to tell you comparison between ours & St Mirren/Killie this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 As someone who's been to every home game and a fair number of away matches as well (so not an 'armchair fan', then) I' m bbewildered by the reaction of The Cup and BGM to last night. I get you guys care deeply about the club, but don't you think you need to get a grip? We're in the second season of our return to the top division, a time when a lot of clubs really struggle, yet we've improved on last season and, with the right personnel brought in, will likely improve yet again next season. Last night was appalling, but a week ago last Wednesday was fantastic. That's Thistle. I can't help feeling your intense dislike of our manager (is it something personal?) is blinding you to the reality of the club's position. I've nothing personal against Archibald. I want to see him succeed but here we are a year later still talking about terrible defending at set pieces and a complete lack of an alternate way of playing. Teale has only been a manager for 9 games but he already knew how to beat Archibald. In fact everyone knows if you work hard to close us down and sit in you will probably beat us as we'll concede some rancid goal from a cross or set piece. I get that we are in the 2nd season but St Mirren were so much more committed than us last night and that's just sad to see. None of the players "made a fist of it". They are rolled over without a fight and at the end lazily punted balls into the box. None of that is acceptable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I suppose Tommy Craig's a better manager than Archie, too, with them having beaten us while he was at the helm. And I don't buy this "rolled over" crap, either. The second half ended with one of our centre halves in their penalty box. Edited January 31, 2015 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 It was another game where we allowed the opposition's set-up to dictate our style of play; the exact same thing happened at Kilmarnock last week where they sat quite high up on our full-backs and sitting midfielders, forcing us to go long. For the first quarter of the game, I thought St Mirren played quite well and got a goal that had been coming. As soon as they had something to defend, it was always going to be difficult for us because we often struggle to breakdown teams and overturn a deficit. We appear to have developed a new attacking threat through O'Donnell's long throw. If you watch any team defend a long throw, the ball invariably lands on the edge of the penalty box; yet on the numerous occasions where we had one of these opportunities, we repeatedly failed to populate that area. I lost count of the times where we would have had a good chance with the goalkeeper unsighted because of the crowed penalty area. I supported the re-introduction of Bannigan last night but I thought he was very poor throughout. He took the safe option far too often and when he didn't, his cross-field passing was inaccurate. On too many occasions, he and Osman were looking to collect the ball in the same area of the pitch and our midfield suffered for it. For me, Osman displayed why he wouldn't be a great miss should he not sign a new deal - he is the epitome of our inconsistency. Higginbotham certainly didn't look injured when he went off and I didn't see any physio following him down the tunnel; what I did see was him trudge off the park, avoid shaking Archie's hand and make a beeline for the dressing room. I don't have any problem whatsoever with his ongoing contract situation but that isn't the kind of behaviour I want to see from a Thistle player. Even if he had picked up a slight knock, he should be staying on the bench to support his teammates. It certainly doesn't do the notion that he has a tendency to be selfish/petulant any good. I can see why Archie was keen to get Booth - and I can also see why Stubbs didn't fancy him at Hibs. Going forward, he looks like he could offer a threat; reminded me of Twaddle at times and he runs the line well. Defensively though, he shirked some challenges and was occasionally drawn infield. I still tend to think an O'Donnell/Booth full-back combination is slightly gung-ho but it should suit us when we're in the ascendency in games. Stevenson, Lawless and the aforementioned Higginbotham all failed to pick up the second ball when we inevitably punted it long to Doolan; as such, I thought they were all pretty poor although you can't fault any of them for effort. Call me old fashioned but if you're chasing a game, increasing your number of attacking options would seem like a sensible move - not replacing your main centre-forward to maintain a one striker formation and then moving your centre-halves up front for injury time. To be fair however, I think we could still be playing and have not scored. Extremely frustrating and absolutely disappointing but not the end of the world. If we continue this ridiculous pattern of inconsistent results, i.e win/draw/lose, for the rest of the season, we'll stay up. We'll maybe not finish as high up the table as we should but at least we'll still be in the division and that would have to be considered a successful season, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambieIsGod Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 You can stamp your feet, throw your toys out of your pram, talk sh#te about the manager and his tactics but the reality is pretty simple. We are in the bottom half of the SPFL. That's our place in life. With that comes inconsistency and games like last night. It was the same under McParland, Auld and Lambie. The above quote sums up what I see as wrong with some Thistle fans. But then all teams have them. Total lack of ambition and desire to progress, both off and on the park. That's our place in life eh? No it's not. Our place in life, is either the top half of the SPL, or the bottom half of the 3rd Division, or indeed anywhere in between. If every team simply had a place in life, why are Hibs in the 1st Division and why are Ross County in the SPL? You have to EARN everything in this game and quite simply last night we looked like we couldn't be bothered. Fans pay good money to watch our team, and even though they aren't on superstar wages, the players earn a decent living playing professional football. I have been to every home game this season, and the majority of away games. Similar to previous seasons. I have stood in the freezing rain and sat in the biting cold (recent Motherwell game comes to mind) and paid a lot of money (to me anyway) for the privilege. I have done this because I want to support the team and I want us to be as successful as we can be. I don't mean winning trophies, I mean by playing good football. if trophies come along, then even better. I remember in the Intertoto cup against Metz. What a trip. I will always support the club. However, I have every right to criticise anybody who takes a wage from Thistle and doesn't perform. I have to perform at my work, so why are footballers different? It would appear that those that criticise are seen by some as being falsely optimistic, or worse, disloyal to the team and management. Bollocks. Criticism, as long as it's constructive, can be merited and useful. Are we all expected to sit back and just put last night performance aside instantly. How is that positive? Instead we should be discussing how last nights performance happened and what should be done to stop it happening again. Some of the players played WELL below their capability and some even looked like they couldn't be bothered. Higgy's terrible pass lost us possession which led to the corner and the goal. Higgy needs dropped instantly and if he isn't prepared to put in a shift, he can go elsewhere. I don't want him at my club if playing for us is not important enough to him. Doolan needs to get in the gym and muscle up. He was bullied all night last night and has been by most teams this season. And he needs to jump more than 2 inches from the ground when going for the ball. Conrad needs to cut out the mistakes and Banzo needs to be more positive in his distribution. We were playing at a snails pace last night and just about the whole team was responsible for a miserable performance. Now the question for me is, did the team play this total hoof football because of St Mirren's counter tactics? Or instead because they were instructed to do so by Archie? It looked to me like our game plan and Archie's instructions. And that being the case, he deserves all the criticism he gets for last night. His subs were too late and too meaningless and that has been a pattern for Archie. When will he make half time changes when things are clearly going wrong? And when will he change to team shape instead of constantly subbing like for like. Every other team that I have seen, seem change their shape if necessary. Why are we different? In summary, I think the players need criticised for last nights inept performance. They need to hear the fans won't tolerate it, roll up their sleeves and get their arses in gear. If I were Archie, I would asking the players to surrender a large part of their wages and donate them to charity. They didn't turn up last night. And as long as I support my team, that will never be good enough. Sorry La Scimmia Rosa, for stamping my feet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Would you have advocated a half-time change last night? I wouldn't, we were in the ascendancy at that point. I really don't understand why the players are being criticised for lack of effort, either. They were collectively poor, but I didn't get the impression from anyone that they're not committed. Higgy's been taking it tight for nearly 24 hours, but what did he do, or fail to do on the pitch last night that's led to questions about his commitment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 In summary, I think the players need criticised for last nights inept performance. They need to hear the fans won't tolerate it, roll up their sleeves and get their arses in gear. If I were Archie, I would asking the players to surrender a large part of their wages and donate them to charity. They didn't turn up last night. And as long as I support my team, that will never be good enough. Sorry La Scimmia Rosa, for stamping my feet. Knowing the people who I usually sit near in Firhill, I know the players would have been abused thoroughly and constantly last night. The fans aren't showing up for a team who won 5-0 and then drew 2-2 away from home. The players will see the results of their actions next week when the away support (from Inverness!) outnumbers the home. As for giving up their wages - away you go and don't talk soft. These people have rent and mortgages to pay. Football's a precarious and short career and they had many hundreds of people shouting all manner of insults directly at them for the duration of the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 The players will see the results of their actions next week when the away support (from Inverness!) outnumbers the home. I am assuming that is tongue in cheek, Dick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambieIsGod Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Would you have advocated a half-time change last night? I wouldn't, we were in the ascendancy at that point. I really don't understand why the players are being criticised for lack of effort, either. They were collectively poor, but I didn't get the impression from anyone that they're not committed. Higgy's been taking it tight for nearly 24 hours, but what did he do, or fail to do on the pitch last night that's led to questions about his commitment? Higgy's been poor all season, at least since he came back from injury. And where is his commitment to the team, when he refuses to acknowledge the bench when subbed and simply trots off to the changing room? Is that commitment? We were clearly watching two different games if you believe we were as committed as St Mirren last night. When they didn't have the ball, they were chasing us down to get it back. When we didn't have it, we were standing off them, for the most part anyway. Wee allowed St Mirren time on ball they shouldn't have had. Our appetite to win the ball back wasn't there and that's what's not good enough, for even one game. Yes, I don't expect every player to play out of his skin in every game, but there's no excuse for lack of commitment. As for us being on the ascendancy at half time, we had no shots on goal and looks like we were struggling to score. Higgy was terrrible and I would have subbed him for McDade at half time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Nixon Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I am assuming that is tongue in cheek, Dick? Well, it may not quite be that bad, but are you expecting much of a home crowd? Crowds have been awful even on the backs of victories this season, and it doesn't take much to make people stay away - and last night's performance is in that category. Season tickets aren't valid, but it is £15 and £5, so who knows. We'll struggle to get more than 2500 I'd imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambieIsGod Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Knowing the people who I usually sit near in Firhill, I know the players would have been abused thoroughly and constantly last night. The fans aren't showing up for a team who won 5-0 and then drew 2-2 away from home. The players will see the results of their actions next week when the away support (from Inverness!) outnumbers the home. As for giving up their wages - away you go and don't talk soft. These people have rent and mortgages to pay. Football's a precarious and short career and they had many hundreds of people shouting all manner of insults directly at them for the duration of the match. You're right Dick, they do have a mortgage to pay. And so do I. They get paid more than me and I decide to balance my household income to allow me to afford following my team. An unrealistic proposition granted, but that's how bad I feel the team were last night. The worst performance for a long time and one I hope will never be repeated. Hoof football from both teams and a total waste of time and money. As for shouting insults etc, not my cup of tea. I don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree we must have been watching a different game. Your analysis would lead anyone who didn't watch the game to believe that St. Mirren had more of the ball and used it better. They weren't and they didn't. And we were definitely on the ascendency going into the break, with Stevenson just failing to connect with Booth's cross and the same player shooting just wide of the post from inside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LambieIsGod Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 I agree we must have been watching a different game. Your analysis would lead anyone who didn't watch the game to believe that St. Mirren had more of the ball and used it better. They weren't and they didn't. And we were definitely on the ascendency going into the break, with Stevenson just failing to connect with Booth's cross and the same player shooting just wide of the post from inside the box. Fair enough DP, you've made your point well and we'll agree to disagree on the game analysis. Nothing wrong with differing opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 31, 2015 Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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