javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Norgethistle said: Jim Oliver owns more than them Another multi millionaire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 39 minutes ago, javeajag said: Another multi millionaire Multi millionaires don’t become that by giving away their assets. Oliver put millions into the club already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 16 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Multi millionaires don’t become that by giving away their assets. Oliver put millions into the club already They are now that ..... so giving shares away literally means very little to them..... springford would apparently put his proceeds into a trust for his daughter rather than increase fan shareholding ? He’s literally worth hundreds of millions but he’s got the best interest of the club at heart .... apparently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, javeajag said: They are now that ..... so giving shares away literally means very little to them..... springford would apparently put his proceeds into a trust for his daughter rather than increase fan shareholding ? He’s literally worth hundreds of millions but he’s got the best interest of the club at heart .... apparently Didn’t he say he would put them into his charity trust? Wee bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, javeajag said: They are now that ..... so giving shares away literally means very little to them..... springford would apparently put his proceeds into a trust for his daughter rather than increase fan shareholding ? He’s literally worth hundreds of millions but he’s got the best interest of the club at heart .... apparently Would you donate your assets to the JagsTrust or to your kids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Norgethistle said: Would you donate your assets to the JagsTrust or to your kids? I would donate 1% of my assets to the fans group to buy the club if I was him because that would leave him with £600m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: "It is essential that, every Board member will have to be a member of the supporters’ group that appoints the Board" Interesting statement from the Thistle Forever Website - so the Supporters Group will exclusively appoint the Board - so what about the other 49% of the Shareholders - does there views not count - also you could be a Season Ticket Holder & a Shareholder but if your not in the "Gang" your excluded from standing for elections to the Board - is this the New Democracy ? Fans with the requisite skills and experience will be able to apply but it won’t be possible for someone without the appropriate skills to simply be voted onto the Board Who decides what the requisite Skills are ? - the Thistle Forever Trustees ? - Paul Goodwin ? - Who decides on the "appropriate skills " - Paul Goodwin ? Now it all sounds very professional but here is my issue - Yes they are right to question what Direction the Clubs going in - but by definition that implies they were happy with the previous incumbents- otherwise they would have launched this previously ? Also if they dont hit the targets - but a benefactor offers to fund the purchase - but wants there own couple of people on the Board - are they going to say No ? Nor will it be possible for anyone to ‘buy’ a seat on the Board. I would, in principle, be happy to contribute to a fan buyout, but this summarises my concerns very well. I may have said this elsewhere, but I was scared shitless at the agnosticism of (some) folk towards the idea that the people on the Board should have some direct experience of running a successful business, and at the suggestion (stripped of all rhetoric) that the old board + sugar daddy + charity was a superior business model to new board + investor + business plan. Further scaring into the shitless category came when I read that (again stripped of all rhetoric ) 'the two trusts (should that be 'cliques'?) can't/won't' work together' and the new definition of 'democracy' (as above). This smells of the 'your gang'/'my gang' attitude which was neatly encapsulated in the phrase Bowling Club mentality which would appear to be alive and thriving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 I thought that the plan was for this group to buy shares, at market value instead of the selling shareholders selling to the consortium. Which I thought was a fine aim. It seems to have morphed today reading this forum, into an organisation championing pressuring people into giving up assets with value for no consideration, so others (albeit fans) with no desire to pay chunky sums for shares can swan around running a football club. We want shares. We want them now. But we don't want to pay for them like you did. Not the look I was liking yesterday, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 30 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said: I would, in principle, be happy to contribute to a fan buyout, but this summarises my concerns very well. I may have said this elsewhere, but I was scared shitless at the agnosticism of (some) folk towards the idea that the people on the Board should have some direct experience of running a successful business, and at the suggestion (stripped of all rhetoric) that the old board + sugar daddy + charity was a superior business model to new board + investor + business plan. Further scaring into the shitless category came when I read that (again stripped of all rhetoric ) 'the two trusts (should that be 'cliques'?) can't/won't' work together' and the new definition of 'democracy' (as above). This smells of the 'your gang'/'my gang' attitude which was neatly encapsulated in the phrase Bowling Club mentality which would appear to be alive and thriving. I don’t think anyone expects anything other than a board elected from members and an executive if people who know what they are doing .....it does actually work like this elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 hours ago, javeajag said: Worked for Dunfermline Who have languished in mid Championship since 2013 when the fans took control. Not really a good example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, jaf said: I thought that the plan was for this group to buy shares, at market value instead of the selling shareholders selling to the consortium. Which I thought was a fine aim. It seems to have morphed today reading this forum, into an organisation championing pressuring people into giving up assets with value for no consideration, so others (albeit fans) with no desire to pay chunky sums for shares can swan around running a football club. We want shares. We want them now. But we don't want to pay for them like you did. Not the look I was liking yesterday, You won’t have any idea what the groups plans are or views reading this forum as I don’t think anyone is involved in it ....im not i was just suggesting just as Colin weir gifted shafes to fans so other major shareholders could gift shares as well that’s all everyone who has questions should message the group to get their answers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Big Col said: Who have languished in mid Championship since 2013 when the fans took control. Not really a good example. Only if you can establish some connection between the two ....though they did get promoted last year we have been owned by private shareholders and not done very well barcelona are fan owned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 It is interesting to read the points on here, some of which I agree with and others that I disagree with. We can talk about various points proposed by Thistle For Ever as they have put out their thoughts and plans which is something (beyond kits and televised games in the Far East) the current Board & Consortium have not done. If anyone wants answers they can send an e-mail to the Thistle For Ever group. If you want to send an e-mail to Chien Lee please let me know how you get on. Will everyone get everything they want whether it is the Consortium, Fans Ownership or neither - of course not! Does that mean that each of these schemes is totally awful - again of course not! The greater good of Partick Thistle is what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: Only if you can establish some connection between the two ....though they did get promoted last year we have been owned by private shareholders and not done very well barcelona are fan owned That’s the only time I’ve ever heard Barcelona and Dunfermline mentioned at the same time. Lol. I would argue against the point we’ve not done very well under private ownership. We were in the premier league till Archibald took a brain fart and signed duds. Then came along Ms Low and appointed GC (but that’s a different argument). You kinda made my point for me. Fans took over Dunfermline and they’ve plodded along since then. Done nothing of note except getting relegated and then promoted back to the league they plodded along in, for some more plodding along. Useless manager after useless manager. Not a great advert for fan ownership. Edited September 4, 2019 by Big Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Big Col said: That’s the only time I’ve ever heard Barcelona and Dunfermline mentioned at the same time. Lol. You kinda made my point for me. Fans took over Dunfermline and they’ve plodded along since then. Done nothing of note except getting relegated and then promoted back to the league they plodded along in, for some more plodding along. Useless manager after useless manager. Not a great advert for fan ownership. And we are not a great advert for non fan ownership by that logic ..... lets pick a neutral example fan ownership in Germany ..... if you don’t like fan ownership that’s fine just say so and the consortium it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Okay - I don’t like the idea of fan ownership and look forward to hearing of the plans and ambitions that the consortium have, at which time I (and others) can come to an informed opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Big Col said: Okay - I don’t like the idea of fan ownership and look forward to hearing of the plans and ambitions that the consortium have, at which time I (and others) can come to an informed opinion. Perfectly reasonable position 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, javeajag said: I would donate 1% of my assets to the fans group to buy the club if I was him because that would leave him with £600m Why would someone just hand over their savings through hard work over years with nothing in return regardless of wealth. This is almost like the banks in Greece taking folks savings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 4, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Why would someone just hand over their savings through hard work over years with nothing in return regardless of wealth. This is almost like the banks in Greece taking folks savings Why did bill gates give over $1bn to fight desease why do philanthropists exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 54 minutes ago, jaf said: I thought that the plan was for this group to buy shares, at market value instead of the selling shareholders selling to the consortium. Which I thought was a fine aim. It seems to have morphed today reading this forum, into an organisation championing pressuring people into giving up assets with value for no consideration, so others (albeit fans) with no desire to pay chunky sums for shares can swan around running a football club. We want shares. We want them now. But we don't want to pay for them like you did. Not the look I was liking yesterday, I’m getting more confused by this with each post. I thought initially this was a rival bid for the 9’s shares now it seems to be to dilute them by 25% (which then makes the figure of 24% not make the 50+1 model) I don’t see a target value or how it will be attained I don’t see how my % would gain me a vote or share on deciding the board, or if I put in 5X more than say JavaJag if I’d have 5X more votes. I don’t see where liability for debt etc lies If I’m honest I see this as an opportunity for a wealthy backer to gain control of the club via the backdoor under fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: Why did bill gates give over $1bn to fight desease why do philanthropists exist Tax relief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 57 minutes ago, javeajag said: I don’t think anyone expects anything other than a board elected from members and an executive if people who know what they are doing .....it does actually work like this elsewhere I would hope so, but that's not what the words seemed to say. If elsewhere means East End Park and Love Street I'm not convinced yet (but could be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just making an observation - there are quite a few folk who have immediately hailed this fan ownership model as a wonderful thing and declared their full support, even although there are no details about future governance or plans and ambitions, much the same as there are no details from the consortium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 Just now, Big Col said: Just making an observation - there are quite a few folk who have immediately hailed this fan ownership model as a wonderful thing and declared their full support, even although there are no details about future governance or plans and ambitions, much the same as there are no details from the consortium. Your not on the WhatsApp group that was instigating this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 No - are there more details on that then? Because there’s nothing on the website, other than the plan will be confirmed once there are enough pledges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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