javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Again as asked previously explain the What? Why? and How? of this project The link to the thistle working group has already been posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, javeajag said: The link to the thistle working group has already been posted Which explains none of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Norgethistle said: Which explains none of this The link where you can ask all your questions.... I messaged them on Facebook and got into dialogue in a couple of minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, javeajag said: I do have to laugh .... what exactly does Motherwell making a loss In one year have to do with us ? Are they now giving up on fan ownership ? the most significant point from last night for me was the days of business benefactors running clubs has gone I think it’s time for those who supported the consortium like you jj etc to now come up with an alternative to what’s being proposed as I for one don’t think this idea failing will lead to anything good What is a business benefactor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: What is a business benefactor ? David Beattie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, javeajag said: the most significant point from last night for me was the days of business benefactors running clubs has gone Says who? A guy that makes his living getting involved in fan ownership? 99% of clubs in UK are owned by a benefactor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Says who? A guy that makes his living getting involved in fan ownership? 99% of clubs in UK are owned by a benefactor And in Scotland ? Which is you know where we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 Some other views from outside the (hermetically sealed) Bowling Club’s Ministry of Truth bunker. --------- Goodwin’s presentation on fan ownership as an overall concept was fine, but when questioned about what things would mean for Thistle he gave a lot of politician’s answers where he talked for ages without actually saying much. Bryan Jackson told some stories about clubs going into administration which didn’t seem particularly relevant to anything, and I’d bet that Dundee fans don’t agree with his assertion that they enjoyed admin because they got to find out more about the inner workings of their club. Didn’t feel that the pair of them fared well to the cross-examination which came in the Q&A afterwards. Dismissed Motherwell’s poor recent financial returns as pretty much “oh well, these things happen”, and repeatedly refused to answer what would (will?) happen if the new board aren’t ready to take the shares on from TBC by the deadline. -------- Thought Mr Goodwin came across poorly with no answers to very important questions. “That shouldn’t happen” was the reply when asked about what happens if 3BC turn down the proposal the working group come up with. Don’t really know why Jackson was there. And for those wondering how we’re going to plug any budget gap when the fans take over - we’re going to hire out the Rough Lounge more often. Its all pie in the sky as far as I can see. If Goodwin has been doing this for 10 years but can’t answer basic fundamental questions, his motives and competence must be in doubt. Comparing fan ownership in Scotland to Germany and Spain was laughable. Didn’t like the sound of it to begin with, and still don’t like the sound of it. --------- Goodwin should be chased. We’ve been well warned by fans of several different clubs. ------------ Really doesn't inspire confidence, considering what we've already been told about Goodwin. I'd obviously love this to work out well, but I can't help but feel this has disaster written all over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West of Scotland Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 So copying and pasting comments from pieandbovril counts as constructive debate on this website these days? Maybe Partick Thistle is f**ked is this is the level we're at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 47 minutes ago, javeajag said: And in Scotland ? Which is you know where we are 95% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: 95% With more in the pipeline..... why don’t you ask Colin weir to give the club to you ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, javeajag said: With more in the pipeline..... why don’t you ask Colin weir to give the club to you ? I don’t want the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: I don’t want the club Do you know anybody that does ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semi Nurainen Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 43 minutes ago, West of Scotland said: So copying and pasting comments from pieandbovril counts as constructive debate on this website these days? Maybe Partick Thistle is f**ked is this is the level we're at. I should have copied and pasted from the Bowling Club site, that would have been ok. And WTF would you know about anything constructive? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 hours ago, West of Scotland said: I would love to know what those who have nothing to offer but constant negativity propose what happens next. Tell Colin Weir's lawyers that the fans refuse to take ownership of the club? If there was a budget shortfall in the past then that was down to financial mismanagement, by the previous board or the one before it, or the one before that. It doesn't really matter because we're starting with a clean slate now - that is unless Colin Weir has decided not to pay any outstanding bills and will gift the fans a club saddled with debt. I don't know the man but if anyone thinks that is what's going to happen then let us all know. From the moment the club becomes fan owned then it will break even. It simply has to because, as was mentioned last night, banks don't usually extend credit to community owned football clubs. Unless there's other multi-millionaires out there who fancy giving their money away we have to rely on the money the football club can generate. I think some people bumping their gums about where they think the club "should be" will have to have a reality check. We get less than two thousand fans through the gate at home games now, and we're no longer in a league where there are large away supports visiting Firhill. We'll have to determine what that means for a club - what our goals are, what level of player we can afford - that has to live within its means. We have to decide what the money - whatever the amount is - generated by pledges goes towards. Give it to the manager to bring in players? Spend it on youth teams in the hope of bringing some of them up to the first team and sell them for a profit? Upgrade the stadium experience to try and encourage more people to pay at the gate? We'll have to figure it out. We'll have to figure out how to get young fans interested for a start, because almost everyone in attendance last night looked to be in their forties or older. If you're not happy with what you heard last night and have ideas on how to fix what you perceive to be wrong with the proposed model, then get involved. If you think Paul Goodwin is an idiot and a charlatan then don't just sit behind a computer screen complaining or mumble darkly under your breath, crossed-armed. Get involved. If you feel you have experience or knowledge that will help, then get involved. If I had experience of running something other than a bath I would volunteer but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute other than a pledge. Sure, it's a tight timescale but as it was mentioned last night the deadline for handing over the shares was set by Three Black Cats because they didn't want to give the impression that they were taking over and remaining in control of the club any longer than was absolutely necessary. And my god, the absolute outrage that would occur here if there was the suggestion that TBC and Jacqui Low would be in charge any longer than March. There seemed to be some who didn't think there were any fans that could run Partick Thistle. "Amateurs running a professional club." It's pretty depressing to live in a country where people think we can't govern ourselves and can't run our own businesses. For those who don't think anyone involved with the working group are suitable but don't want to get involved themselves, and those who don't want TBC (and the big bad scary Jacqui Low) to continue to hold the shares then state what you think should happen. We're all ears. It's our club and we have to figure it out now. You can't just sit and shake your head any more. Ok for the avoidance of doubt there was No Budget Shortfall prior to the one forecast for this Season - so save the deflection - it was balanced by Revenues that were not Forecasted at the time of the Budget set in May for the following Season - therefore to balance it for next Season is going to take Cuts of Circa 40% of the Budget - now these are very rough figures based on the AGM Data - but Im happy to stand corrected if someone else has other data At the AGM according to Posts Paul Goodwin didnt know the Budgets & Finances ( despite having attended the AGM ) So those pushing for Fan Ownership have a disconnect with the Financial Reality - because thats exactly whats going to hit and hit home very very hard As for 3BC - they are shareholders - they dont Run the Club nor should they have anything to do with Running the Club - thats why we have a Board Jlo is not scary on any level - if she is Running the Club then that should be clearly stated upfront - immediately after that the TFE Director has to Resign - as they said that she would not be returning - if TBC and Jlo are Running the Place after March then thats a major issue - as again its against whats been stated Are there Fans out there who could Run the Club - Of course there are - would they touch the current set up with a bargepole - No There wont be a "Break Even " there will be the balance of this Years Budget and Long Term Financial Contracts As for the "Get involved" Jibe - TFE - Thistle Trust pushed for this - Colin weir Backed them - they are responsible What Should have happened is that the previous Board under David Beattie should have been asked to stay on for Two Years - with a Gradual handover to other Directors with a Proven Business Record - who are Thistle Fans - what we have frankly is a disaster waiting to happen As we speak there will be people watching closely looking to pick up a Football Club on the Cheap with a Nice Big Land Bank TFE - Thistle Trust - lots of Grand Plans on Fan Ownership - But as Mike Tyson once said - "everyone has a plan until the other guy punches you in the face " in our case the Punch in the Face is Financial Reality There is one and only one question people should ask - how are you going to balance the Books Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, West of Scotland said: So copying and pasting comments from pieandbovril counts as constructive debate on this website these days? Maybe Partick Thistle is f**ked is this is the level we're at. Read the comments- which of them are untrue ref the Questions asked and the responses given ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok for the avoidance of doubt there was No Budget Shortfall prior to the one forecast for this Season - so save the deflection - it was balanced by Revenues that were not Forecasted at the time of the Budget set in May for the following Season - therefore to balance it for next Season is going to take Cuts of Circa 40% of the Budget - now these are very rough figures based on the AGM Data - but Im happy to stand corrected if someone else has other data At the AGM according to Posts Paul Goodwin didnt know the Budgets & Finances ( despite having attended the AGM ) So those pushing for Fan Ownership have a disconnect with the Financial Reality - because thats exactly whats going to hit and hit home very very hard As for 3BC - they are shareholders - they dont Run the Club nor should they have anything to do with Running the Club - thats why we have a Board Jlo is not scary on any level - if she is Running the Club then that should be clearly stated upfront - immediately after that the TFE Director has to Resign - as they said that she would not be returning - if TBC and Jlo are Running the Place after March then thats a major issue - as again its against whats been stated Are there Fans out there who could Run the Club - Of course there are - would they touch the current set up with a bargepole - No There wont be a "Break Even " there will be the balance of this Years Budget and Long Term Financial Contracts As for the "Get involved" Jibe - TFE - Thistle Trust pushed for this - Colin weir Backed them - they are responsible What Should have happened is that the previous Board under David Beattie should have been asked to stay on for Two Years - with a Gradual handover to other Directors with a Proven Business Record - who are Thistle Fans - what we have frankly is a disaster waiting to happen As we speak there will be people watching closely looking to pick up a Football Club on the Cheap with a Nice Big Land Bank TFE - Thistle Trust - lots of Grand Plans on Fan Ownership - But as Mike Tyson once said - "everyone has a plan until the other guy punches you in the face " in our case the Punch in the Face is Financial Reality There is one and only one question people should ask - how are you going to balance the Books What is the point of this post exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, jagfox said: So I’ve read about examples of other fan led clubs. Was there any word on what model we will be employing? As stated a well run club with an effective BoD keeping finances on an even keel with a trust raising the extra money that can make a difference to the club, ground and playing staff? Should we go back to non-elected directors fronting a fee to be on the board which could be repaid in shares if things go well fiscally? I’m happy to pledge what I can afford but I’ll wait until I see what is on the table. Yes - 100% Sanity at last ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 I think it would helpful for everyone to note that TFE no longer exists and that the Thistle Working Group is composed of thistle fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, javeajag said: Let’s do it the other way round..... What is the alternative ? Dont do it - have a Board of Directors who pay a Directors Fee - Run it along traditional lines People who are Fans with a Proven Business Track Record - each with an Area of Expertise - 2 Year Fixed Terms - Max 4 Years on the Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, javeajag said: Let’s do it the other way round..... What is the alternative ? Dont do it - have a Board of Directors who pay a Directors Fee - Run it along traditional lines People who are Fans with a Proven Business Track Record - each with an Area of Expertise - 2 Year Fixed Terms - Max 4 Years on the Board 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: Do you know anybody that does ? Yes I do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: I think it would helpful for everyone to note that TFE no longer exists and that the Thistle Working Group is composed of thistle fans TFE have a Director on the Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, javeajag said: I think it would helpful for everyone to note that TFE no longer exists and that the Thistle Working Group is composed of thistle fans That’s not true. TFE run the working group 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, javeajag said: Do you know anybody that does ? The Board under Beattie should have been asked to stay - Fans Shares put in Trust - Management Transferred to another Board over a Two Year Period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.