Why Is Firhill Not For Thrills?

[Jaggernaut]

Or how about at least installing a big metal fence running right down the middle of the JH stand, with away fans to one side of it and Jags fans on the other?

 

Oh, and a big half-time score board (with a letter of the alphabet for each match) erected on the bing. The letter codes would be printed in the programme, sales of programme go up, and all our debt problems are solved.

[Ember]

Personally i don't think the location of kids zone, hospitality or police box has any bearing on the atmosphere. There is just a general apathy about the club from top to botton at the moment and these things are the least of our worries!!

100% correct.

 

The ICT and Rangers games have been mentioned a few times on this thread as examples of the atmosphere we all want at Firhill. Both of these games were played in front of the current JHS set up. Crowds and occasions make atmosphere, not erganomics*.

 

(* big word of the day)

[Jaggernaut]

100% correct.

 

The ICT and Rangers games have been mentioned a few times on this thread as examples of the atmosphere we all want at Firhill. Both of these games were played in front of the current JHS set up. Crowds and occasions make atmosphere, not erganomics*.

 

(* big word of the day)

Ergonomics.

[hamiltonjag]

*1Thistle had no say in where the Polis box went. The polis decided, the end, apart from fact Thistle had to pay for it.

As a result of this the Polis made it very hard for folk to enjoy themselves in the traditional way, (standing, clapping hands and singing) by handing out warnings to everyone around who decided to stand for more than 10 seconds. Thistle then reacted and wasn't so long ago "the shed" was created at city end. This had a right good few afternoons of singing and banter, with away supporters complimenting us on a good atmospheric home support.

When I was a wee(er) laddie, i used to love going up to fence in shed, and surely the youth of today should be afforded that choice ?

The main stand whether(sp?) shut or open never had any atmosphere, *2and to suggest that the ex board members have added directly to the lack of atmosphere is surely a bit OTT, why would we open 2 stands for such a low crowd. ?

Hospitality guests seem to enjoy the seats in as good an atmosphere as their gonna get-- doesnt really affect the "crowd" in city end.

 

 

The problem lies(IMO) in that Thistle are terrible, and not enough people are parting with their money to watch. I'm one of the "supporters" who have to fight hard with work,wife( honest!), money,car, mortgage,beer, children about where i spend my spare time, and sadly, it seems to me that my dough and time are better spent elsewhere.

*1 Well hmmmmmm let me think..... where was the police box before? Hmmmm..... wait it'll come back to me.... tip of my tongue here..... hmmmmm.... the City End Teraacing... that's right. Did Thistle demolish that or did a big boy do it and run away?

*2. OTT??????????? Moving the Directors to the far end of the JHS nearest the away support CRUCIFIED the atmosphere overnight. To suggest otherwise is frankly baffling.

[macca]

I don't see what's wrong with swapping the current 'shed' area with the current kids area. Involves NO financial cost & should result in improved atmosphere, with being closer to the away fans. Only reason I can think that this won't/can't happen is because it's beside the directors box (& police room), but I really don't see why that should matter.

Totally agree ,the atmosphere was good at Dundee on Saturday due to both sets of supporters being in close proximity. The sooner the Shed is move to the other side of the stand to create a bit of atmosphere the better

[Paulo]

Question for the future?

 

did building the JHS out of necessity (at the time), kill Partick Thistle as a club?

[northernsoul]

Question for the future?

 

did building the JHS out of necessity (at the time), kill Partick Thistle as a club?

 

No.

[Norgethistle]

Question for the future?

 

did building the JHS out of necessity (at the time), kill Partick Thistle as a club?

 

No but moving season ticket holders 3 times, knocking down the city end terracing without planning permission, moving hospitality at a high cost for no real reason, building the north end stand bigger than was required all had a bigger say in killing us

[kni]

.....so you are advocating that we just accept Thistle are, at best, a Div 1 club? No aspirations for SPL status, ever? No chance of regularly hosting games against teams with a large away support (like the OF)?

 

How low have the expectations of many Jags fans sunk? Kni.... your post makes depressing reading as it seems many of us have now been successfully conditioned to expect a 2 sided half-original-capacity Firhill cos we're apparently sh*te and always will be.

 

Personally I can't agree with such sentiment.

 

What a load of rubbish! I am being realistic. You did not attempt to answer the question as to how re-opening the main stand will be funded.

 

Even after the Propco deal, we are/will have debts of hundreds of thousands of pounds. We can't even sell 50% of the JHS seats. Even when we were in the SPL, we struggled to get average crowds above 5,000. St Mirren got less than 6,000 when Rangers visited on Saturday.

 

Will you personally pay for re-opening the main stand? If not, why do you expect the directors to waste more of their and the club's money? I am fed up with idiots on here who are living in the past. They expect the club to waste money on facilities that we can't afford to satisfy their selfish little fantasies.

[twinny]

We should run hospitality like Millenium Platter - two hours of all you can eat and drink plus entry for, let's say £40. Shite curry with watered down, flat drinks - followed by a shite football match. I'd definitely be handing the club £40 every other week, if I lived in Glasgow...

[twinny]

No but moving season ticket holders 3 times, knocking down the city end terracing without planning permission, moving hospitality at a high cost for no real reason, building the north end stand bigger than was required all had a bigger say in killing us

 

In the long run matchday costs are reduced as the main stand needed a higher number of stewards than the other two. The question is what impact this has had on crowd size and hospitality uptake, and whether it was worth the move? I don't think that moving the hospitality has driven fans away, unless they were looking for a reason to stop going.

[Norgethistle]

Back in the day, you had the "safe-zone" of the main stand when you were a wee kid and had to be kept away from all the so called nonsense, you prrogressed down to the enclosure to learn sweary words from Bertie in the dug-out and you could talk to the players coming out for there warm up, from there when you got a bit braver it was onto behind the goals, the start of the shed, the middle then right up to the fence in your teenage years. We had the family zones and the noisy zones in they days. You could find an area that suited you and your familys needs at every game without having to be told where you can swear where you cant, etc etc. The game and the experience has became way too sterilised and disciplined- you have a kid you sit here, you want to sing you go here etc etc

[uberteeb]

Of course it was more fun back in the terracing days but lets not forget when "The Shed" area was brought back to the JHS the atmosphere was good for a fair while afterwards. If anything moving the police box and hospitality forced the people who sang in Section 7 to move in with the singers at the City End. That actually improved things.

 

The only thing that hasnt really helped is the location of hospitality, sound doesnt travel well along the JHS (thats just acoustics, plenty of modern stands have this unintentional problem). So when those at the City End sing it doesnt transfer along the stand because it kind of meets a buffer at hospitality. But it could all be heard loud and crystal clear on the pitch, in the dug out and believe it or not in the away stand. So whilst this might have an impact on the atmosphere spreading along the stand there still was an atmosphere coming from one end of the stand projected out to the players, managers and away fans.

 

The reason for the atmosphere being flat, and I'll admit me and my pals are part of the cause, is that the Shed has totally died down over the past 12 months or so. I don't know half the peoples names in the area but you do recognise faces. There were groups of people and individuals as well who you could rely on to be up for a sing song and up for creating a good atmosphere. Half of them are no longer there and the other half (myself included) don't really make much of an attempt to get the atmosphere going.

 

That is obviously a consequence of rubbish on the park and, in my case, total disillusionment with the manager. I'm just not that excited about going to Firhill these days. Its obvious loads of others feel the same way. The atmosphere got slightly worse week after week to the situation we find ourselves in today where it is terrible.

 

Would moving the home fans to the other end make a difference, probably, if there is one thing that can keep you amused when the football is terrible its taking the proverbial out of the opposing fans. But the fact remains, since all these changes have been made the atmosphere was pretty good for prolonged periods, not just one off 'big games'.

 

Unforunately this is not some sort of call to arms, I'll be there on Saturday and just like the last time I was there and the time before that I won't be attempting to create much of an atmosphere. Neither, I suspect, will the others who remain or, obviously, those who have stopped going alltogether.

 

It will likely take a team giving 100% effort (and ideally some decent chances) and a new manager before I return to my old ways.

[Jaggernaut]

We should run hospitality like Millenium Platter - two hours of all you can eat and drink plus entry for, let's say £40. Shite curry with watered down, flat drinks - followed by a shite football match. I'd definitely be handing the club £40 every other week, if I lived in Glasgow...

That's a brilliant idea for the Aitken Suite/Main Stand. That way the flatulence won't bother anybody else, and at last there'd be some "atmosphere" on that side of the ground.

[Wee Gus]

*1 Well hmmmmmm let me think..... where was the police box before? Hmmmm..... wait it'll come back to me.... tip of my tongue here..... hmmmmm.... the City End Teraacing... that's right. Did Thistle demolish that or did a big boy do it and run away?

*2. OTT??????????? Moving the Directors to the far end of the JHS nearest the away support CRUCIFIED the atmosphere overnight. To suggest otherwise is frankly baffling.

 

Sorry fella. It was a Police decision to move OUR police control room to a place which suited them better. Thistle paid for this, an unwelcome bill, but Strathclyde's finest have the decision making powers. Big boy or not, it was their choice.

As a result of this move, there was a specific change in the policing of that part of the ground. The match commanders all decided, that in that part of the ground, "if it was an offence in Byres road, it was an offence in Firhill." I was given a warning regarding my conduct and language when i shouted to a St Johnstone supporter for wearing a pink hat.!!

Nothing to do with the directors.

[hamiltonjag]

What a load of rubbish! I am being realistic. You did not attempt to answer the question as to how re-opening the main stand will be funded.

 

Even after the Propco deal, we are/will have debts of hundreds of thousands of pounds. We can't even sell 50% of the JHS seats. Even when we were in the SPL, we struggled to get average crowds above 5,000. St Mirren got less than 6,000 when Rangers visited on Saturday.

 

Will you personally pay for re-opening the main stand? If not, why do you expect the directors to waste more of their and the club's money? I am fed up with idiots on here who are living in the past. They expect the club to waste money on facilities that we can't afford to satisfy their selfish little fantasies.

Good and fair points (apart from the "idiots" remark which I'm big enough to choose to ignore) My point is that currently we are in the 1st Division. In my honest opinion we have the potential to be as big a club as your SPL Motherwells, Kilmarnocks etc of this world. Indeed many would argue that we were bigger than such clubs up to a decade or so ago. I am not advocating opening the main stand, and if you read my previous posts on this very thread you'll see that. BUT nor am I advocating its demolition. Once it's gone it's gone forever. And you'll notice too that I have been realistic enough to see that I realise the demolition is all but a done deal. So it comes down to what will bring the crowds back to Firhill? We're innovating with the kids go free scheme. Great. What happens when these kids get the Jags bug and grow up to bring their kids and their kids' kids? Could it be that in seasons to come we will have to ration ticket sales to our own and travelling supporters simply because we were short-sighted and chose to flog off our main assets. We're crying out for punters NOW but hopefully that won't always be the case. Surely as Jags fans we must have hope for a beetr future where we're playing against opposition with many more paying fans than Cowdenbeath etc. Maybe a vain naiive hope, but hey we're Jags fans and hard-wired like that!

If that makes me an idiot, pass the dunce's cap.

[hamiltonjag]

Sorry fella. It was a Police decision to move OUR police control room to a place which suited them better. Thistle paid for this, an unwelcome bill, but Strathclyde's finest have the decision making powers. Big boy or not, it was their choice.

As a result of this move, there was a specific change in the policing of that part of the ground. The match commanders all decided, that in that part of the ground, "if it was an offence in Byres road, it was an offence in Firhill." I was given a warning regarding my conduct and language when i shouted to a St Johnstone supporter for wearing a pink hat.!!

Nothing to do with the directors.

I may be wrong in my disagreement here, but the police box was a substantial wee building at the City End terracing. Had the Board NOT foolishly demolished it before Glasgow City Council refused building permission (as an aside imagine the outcry if they'd done that to either of the old firm!!!) then the Police box would still be there and you wouldn't have been wrongfully warned about your banter with the pink-hatted tractor driver. So in that respect I disagree with you and say its EVERYTHING to do with the directors. Also the directors decision to move their seats to the JHS quite literally slayed the atmosphere at Firhill forcing the singers and those critical of pink hats down to the city end of the JHS thereby diliting the whole stand cheering and singing effect reminsicent of the ICT and R*ngers cup games.

[kni]

Interesting article on Chesterfield's and Colchester's moves to a new grounds - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/11/chesterfield.html#270434

 

The capacities are similar to Firhill's.

 

"Colchester left Layer Road for the Weston Homes Community Stadium in 2008. They had 40 hospitality places at the old ground but now have 650 and serve an average of between 250 and 300 meals at each home game. They also have a range of rooms, boasting a capacity from 10 to 400, that have hosted comedy nights, bowls and sportsmans dinners, while the club will stage an amateur boxing event in January."

"At Saltergate, you were out on the street within seconds of leaving the ground. At the new ground, the concourse boasts bar and food kiosks, as well as flatscreen televisions. Bransoj said: "It has changed my match-day experience completely. I used to leave the pub five minutes before the game and wander in as we kicked off. Now I'm there 45 minutes before, using the concourse facilities and putting the money back in the club."

"But perhaps the most ringing endorsement for the new stadium comes in the form of increased attendances. The club have an identical home record to last season following their opening eight home fixtures, with seven wins and one draw. Yet the average crowd in 2010 is 6,244, in contrast with 3,593 a year ago."

 

[hamiltonjag]

Interesting article on Chesterfield's and Colchester's moves to a new grounds - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/11/chesterfield.html#270434

 

The capacities are similar to Firhill's.

 

"Colchester left Layer Road for the Weston Homes Community Stadium in 2008. They had 40 hospitality places at the old ground but now have 650 and serve an average of between 250 and 300 meals at each home game. They also have a range of rooms, boasting a capacity from 10 to 400, that have hosted comedy nights, bowls and sportsmans dinners, while the club will stage an amateur boxing event in January."

"At Saltergate, you were out on the street within seconds of leaving the ground. At the new ground, the concourse boasts bar and food kiosks, as well as flatscreen televisions. Bransoj said: "It has changed my match-day experience completely. I used to leave the pub five minutes before the game and wander in as we kicked off. Now I'm there 45 minutes before, using the concourse facilities and putting the money back in the club."

"But perhaps the most ringing endorsement for the new stadium comes in the form of increased attendances. The club have an identical home record to last season following their opening eight home fixtures, with seven wins and one draw. Yet the average crowd in 2010 is 6,244, in contrast with 3,593 a year ago."

 

Smashin A bit like Clyde moving to their brand new Broadwood, Airdrie to Excelsior and Meadowbank to Almondvale. All crackin moves for those clubs..... oh...... wait.......

[kni]

Smashin A bit like Clyde moving to their brand new Broadwood, Airdrie to Excelsior and Meadowbank to Almondvale. All crackin moves for those clubs..... oh...... wait.......

 

 

Your mocking sarcasm is ridiculous. Clyde and Meadowbank moved away from their traditional fan base. Colchester and Chesterfield have stayed in their home towns.

 

So let's look at other examples - Hamilton, St Johnstone, Arsenal, Man City, Stoke City, Bolton, Wigan, Sunderland, Middlesborough, Southampton and Leicester. Are they all worse off by moving to new stadia?

 

The Luddism on here is pathetic.

[Jaggernaut]

Interesting article on Chesterfield's and Colchester's moves to a new grounds - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulfletcher/2010/11/chesterfield.html#270434

 

The capacities are similar to Firhill's.

 

"Colchester left Layer Road for the Weston Homes Community Stadium in 2008. They had 40 hospitality places at the old ground but now have 650 and serve an average of between 250 and 300 meals at each home game. They also have a range of rooms, boasting a capacity from 10 to 400, that have hosted comedy nights, bowls and sportsmans dinners, while the club will stage an amateur boxing event in January."

"At Saltergate, you were out on the street within seconds of leaving the ground. At the new ground, the concourse boasts bar and food kiosks, as well as flatscreen televisions. Bransoj said: "It has changed my match-day experience completely. I used to leave the pub five minutes before the game and wander in as we kicked off. Now I'm there 45 minutes before, using the concourse facilities and putting the money back in the club."

"But perhaps the most ringing endorsement for the new stadium comes in the form of increased attendances. The club have an identical home record to last season following their opening eight home fixtures, with seven wins and one draw. Yet the average crowd in 2010 is 6,244, in contrast with 3,593 a year ago."

 

The Colchester one looks exactly like one of the 4 Lego-stand-big-open-corner nightmare stadia that are contributing to the lack of atmosphere at football matches.

[hamiltonjag]

Your mocking sarcasm is ridiculous. Clyde and Meadowbank moved away from their traditional fan base. Colchester and Chesterfield have stayed in their home towns.

 

So let's look at other examples - Hamilton, St Johnstone, Arsenal, Man City, Stoke City, Bolton, Wigan, Sunderland, Middlesborough, Southampton and Leicester. Are they all worse off by moving to new stadia?

 

The Luddism on here is pathetic.

Hmmmm.... maybe time to tone down your self-opinionated comments like "ridiculous" and "pathetic". You're doing your argument no favours imvho.

The other teams you mentioned stayed within their local area. In some cases moving just a couple of hundred yards. Much of the talk on here of late has included East Kilbride, Scotstoun etc. No-one has a crystal ball but I reckon a move like that would kill Thistle off. Of course I'm just a "ridiculous" "pathetic" "idiot" and you are clearly a business and football guru. With your talents maybe you should be on the Board eh?

[hamiltonjag]

The Colchester one looks exactly like one of the 4 Lego-stand-big-open-corner nightmare stadia that are contributing to the lack of atmosphere at football matches.

Hear hear.

[kni]

Hmmmm.... maybe time to tone down your self-opinionated comments like "ridiculous" and "pathetic". You're doing your argument no favours imvho.

The other teams you mentioned stayed within their local area. In some cases moving just a couple of hundred yards. Much of the talk on here of late has included East Kilbride, Scotstoun etc. No-one has a crystal ball but I reckon a move like that would kill Thistle off. Of course I'm just a "ridiculous" "pathetic" "idiot" and you are clearly a business and football guru. With your talents maybe you should be on the Board eh?

 

I would prefer Thistle to remain at Firhill if we can deal with our £700k post-PropCo debts. If we had to leave Firhill, we should not move more than a couple of miles away. East Kilbride and Scotstoun would not be viable. The Herald article, on another thread, mentioned that the club looked at developing a new stadium on land adjacent to Firhill.

 

Having built a business, from scratch,with a turnover of over £500 million, I feel qualified to comment on business matters. I would consider investing a large sum in Thistle if the terms were right.

[hamiltonjag]

I would prefer Thistle to remain at Firhill if we can deal with our £700k post-PropCo debts. If we had to leave Firhill, we should not move more than a couple of miles away. East Kilbride and Scotstoun would not be viable. The Herald article, on another thread, mentioned that the club looked at developing a new stadium on land adjacent to Firhill.

 

Having built a business, from scratch,with a turnover of over £500 million, I feel qualified to comment on business matters. I would consider investing a large sum in Thistle if the terms were right.

So..... what's stopping you? A drop in the ocean to a man of your wealth. Go on be the Thistle sugar daddy.... whooohooo Europe here we come.

What's your business? Diplomacy?