The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Think the Lib Dems are doing some good stuff at Westminister. Getting agreement to raise the State Pension for the long run, low paid people taken out of tax, progressive ideas and reform of the benefit system and all sorts of pressure being exerted on the Coalition partners to reign back what you would have if it was the Tories unchecked. Labour kicked out so that the country is not consigned to financial ruin The question for the other parties after the Holyrood elections is going to be just how much more they will have to offer to the Lib Dems. No one will win the Scottish Election, so once again the other parties will have to come and ask for Lib Dem support. I think a high price could be exacted in terms how much of the manifesto will be implemented, what jobs will be given out etc. Anyway, just a thought. Edited March 28, 2011 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 One thing that frustrates me about the Parliament is the lack of quality amongst the majority of MSP's. There are some who struggle to string two words together, there are some who cannot make a speech without reading virtually every word from a piece of paper and there are some who just sit there doing nothing. There needs to be a clear out of the talentless shower and hopefully this election will do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Whilst I broadly agree with the original poster, the Lib Dems are going to get massacred in the Holyrood Elections. And it's completely undeserved too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Whilst I broadly agree with the original poster, the Lib Dems are going to get massacred in the Holyrood Elections. And it's completely undeserved too. Only took you four attempts, and two post deletions to say that. Well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) One thing that frustrates me about the Parliament is the lack of quality amongst the majority of MSP's. There are some who struggle to string two words together, there are some who cannot make a speech without reading virtually every word from a piece of paper and there are some who just sit there doing nothing. There needs to be a clear out of the talentless shower and hopefully this election will do so. Wee story on that point: I wrote to my MP Donald Dewar about 15 years ago and asked for a ticket to go and see the Commons in action as I was heading down to London for a weekend anyway. Mr Dewar personally phoned me back and as I was out he left a message with my Dad. He phoned back the next day and once again I was out. Anyway forgot all about it, and a month or so later when I finally got it together to phone the Scottish Office to see if I could get the ticket. They said they could sort it and I just needed to drop in. Went along on the day and asked at the reception. To cut a long story short, Mr Dewar appeared in person at the reception, took me on a tour of the various government offices, took me in a Limo down Whitehall to Parliament with police outriders and all that stuff, and then took nearly two hours showing me around and just chatting. Got to stand at the despatch box in the Commons for a minute or two (and I addressed the empty chamber for a few seconds obviously ) which was just awesome really. Talk about a sense of history. Anyway, point being that he was talking all the time about the new design for the Scottish Parliament and how it was to be circular to minimise confrontation. I remember thinking that sounded good, but to be honest I think what has happended is that it is so non-confrontational that it is just completely dull to watch and that is what makes the speakers look so poor. Also the four minute limit for speeches, and the grey background don't exactly help to liven it up. You couldn't stir it up even if you wanted to. My proposal to reform the Scottish Parliament would be to rebuild it into a Chamber of two sides with green benches. That might liven it up Edited March 28, 2011 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Only took you four attempts, and two post deletions to say that. Well done Pesky router's playing up at the moment. I blame the Coalition's cuts, after all everyone's blaming everything else on them at the moment so it's worth a shot. Anyway, I've got a wee thought that should make people think very carefully before voting in May: "Iain Gray First Minister" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eighthoursbehind Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 My proposal to reform the Scottish Parliament would be to rebuild it into a Chamber of two sides with green benches. That might liven it up If you really want to liven it up one side green the other side blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) Whilst I broadly agree with the original poster, the Lib Dems are going to get massacred in the Holyrood Elections. And it's completely undeserved too. Remember the 1992 General Election when Major won. None of the polls predicted that because they didn't take account of the fact that a lot of people wouldn't say they would vote Tory, even though they did on polling day. I think you may see a similar effect just now with the Liberal Democrat vote. Will just have to wait and see. Edited March 28, 2011 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 While we will sustain losses I don't think we will be massacred. Remember the 1992 General Election when Major won. None of the polls predicted that because they didn't take account of the fact that a lot of people wouldn't say they would vote Tory, even though they did on polling day. I think you may see a similar effect just now with the Liberal Democrat vote. The press are demonising us just now (mainly because of tuition fees - an issue IMO that is overstated in its importance in Glasgow), but I actually see the local parties/memberships more vibrant than ever The Lib Dems' best hope in Scotland is to get Charlie K on the rounds on a damage limitation exercise. The perception I'm getting of Lib Dem grass roots (especially the lefty types) is that they're running out of patience with the Orange Bookers (even though they're the only ones brave enough to face up to realpolitik). Parallels about Major are interesting, though. I've heard of the "Shy Tory" but 12 months ago I didn't think we'd reach the stage where we'd found the "Shy Lib Dem". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) iParallels about Major are interesting, though. I've heard of the "Shy Tory" but 12 months ago I didn't think we'd reach the stage where we'd found the "Shy Lib Dem". You can tell a party is doing well when people vote for them but won't admit it The press are demonising the Lib Dems so people won't admit their support. It also presents a cracker of a problem for the other parties looking to form a Holyrood Coalition in May. The press has it that the Lib Dems are too toxic to touch, but someone will have to deal with them if they want to form a government. Interesting times Edited March 28, 2011 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 You can tell a party is doing well when people vote for them but won't admit it The press are demonising the Lib Dems so people won't admit their support. It also presents a cracker of a problem for the other parties looking to form a Holyrood Coalition in May. The press has it that we are too toxic to touch, but someone will have to deal with us! Who will climb down and and lick our boots first, the SNP or the Labour Party. One of you will have to because Labour won't be allowed to govern as a minority, despite their arrogant assumption that they represent the Scottish People Interesting times The thing that continues to sadden me is that vast swathes of the Scottish people vote for Labour not because of policy considerations or their actual record but because of inherited loyalty and hatred of their main UK counterparts. You get the same thing with the Tories, the only difference being it's among pensioners and they're dying out. That and the public seem to have a pervasive disregard for their own liberty as soon as the word "terrorism" is thrown about (Benjamin Franklin summed up that approach for me pretty well) but that's another issue entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 If you really want to liven it up one side green the other side blue. And a Maroon cross bench so that it's not seen as overly Glasgow Centric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 And a Maroon cross bench so that it's not seen as overly Glasgow Centric Sounds like institutional Proddy bias there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Sounds like institutional Proddy bias there... Would Tangerine benches at the other end help? Can't really help the Hibees because they do insist on playing in Green. I feel we're going a bit off topic here though. Surely we should worry more about whether the benches are done with stripes or kept plain, rather than getting so hung up on the colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Would Tangerine benches at the other end help? Can't really help the Hibees because they do insist on playing in Green. I feel we're going a bit off topic here though. Surely we should worry more about whether the benches are done with stripes or kept plain, rather than getting so hung up on the colour. Tangerine would fuel it with the "William" connection. What you really need is to invite a few Cardinals in. Seems to work in the Lords... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 And what colour would the fence be? The fence being the thing that most politicians sit on when asked a straight question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 And what colour would the fence be? The fence being the thing that most politicians sit on when asked a straight question. Well obviously that will depend to some extent on whether there is sufficient space and paint for a fence. I have a dream of a red and yellow fence, but its hard to ask hard pressed families to vote for that when they are struggling to feed their children. Of course this state of affairs is entirely due to Labour's disgraceful economic legacy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Well obviously that will depend to some extent on whether there is sufficient space and paint for a fence. I have a dream of a red and yellow fence, but its hard to ask hard pressed families to vote for that when they are struggling to feed their children. Of course this state of affairs is entirely due to Labour's disgraceful economic legacy And they want borrowing powers for the Scottish parliament?????? I wouldn't trust Andy Kerr with my son's pocket money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honved Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't think either of the two main parties should be anywhere near the LDs as far as a coalition is concerned and I suspect that wee Alex will be happy to form a minority government again since the very word "coalition" is tarnished. However the most radical coalition idea, would be to completely bugger up Labour and almost guarantee independence by Alex offering a government of Scottish unity with Labour, post election. After all, the two parties functional policies to do with running Scotland are not that different (despite Labour's lack of support at key points in the last parliament, out of sheer spite). How would Gray defend to the public, a refusal to enter into government, whilst the Westminster party is in opposition and the UK ruling parties are so disliked? PS, re fiscal autonomy, that 1p off the petrol for everyone in the UK...enough said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Remember the 1992 General Election when Major won. None of the polls predicted that because they didn't take account of the fact that a lot of people wouldn't say they would vote Tory, even though they did on polling day. I think you may see a similar effect just now with the Liberal Democrat vote. Will just have to wait and see. I think Labour spending the week before polling date lording it up as if they'd already won the election turned a lot of people off. And then Kinnock went to Sheffield........ I don't think the Liberal Democrat vote will reduce significantly. There's never been a period when voting Liberal Democrats seemed to amount to much but there was a solid core who did so. That core has continued through the three Holyrood elections largely unchanged. I think they will drop votes but I don't think it will be as substantial as some polls might make out (Holyrood polls are all over the place and some are tending to support my view). The question will be where these votes drop off and how this impacts on seats - some FPTP losses may be countered by gaining a seat from the list giving the compensatory manner of the Additional Member System we use. I do, however, hope that Glasgow becomes a Lib Dem free area. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!! Anyway, three cheers for Hugh O'Donnell - he is spot on to point out the authoritarian tendencies within the Scottish Liberal Democrats. I'd like to think he'd get re-elected as an Independent but I don't know what his local profile is like. If it's good, then he might have a chance. As for me, I'll be voting SNP in the regional list largely because the prospect of Iain Gray as First Minister is frightening. The SNP have a competent team and I'd like to see them continue. I would rather that they are able to form some kind of coalition or at least come to a confidence and supply arrangement to allow them more room for manoeuvre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The Lib Dems' best hope in Scotland is to get Charlie K on the rounds on a damage limitation exercise. The perception I'm getting of Lib Dem grass roots (especially the lefty types) is that they're running out of patience with the Orange Bookers (even though they're the only ones brave enough to face up to realpolitik). Realpolitik would suggest putting the brake on the cuts and dealing with the deficit more slowly. All of the projections suggest that's going to allow greater levels of growth. Why continue to cut speedily and deeply whilst the resulting growth will be less than the alternative. Hard to believe that's because it's anything other than ideological - and supported equally by the Tories and the Orange Bookers (although the former description covers them admirably) You've also mentioned previously about the impact on our credit rating - that seems to be coming under question again on the basis of the recent cutback in growth projections. It's still got to get worse as it will only be with the coming of the new fiscal year that the real impact of the cuts will start to take effect. The coalition have lost the battle on their approach being seen as fair given the timid nature of Osbourne's approach to tax avoidance. But can you expect anything more from a Conservative chancellor? If they had been able to convince the public that the approach was fair they would have a good chance of bringing people with them. Clegg's in deep shit with his party - the anti-coalition motions at Sheffield were passed almost unanimously. His speech missed the feelings of the assembled members by a country mile. It is positive that amendments to bills will be put forward on the floor of the house but it will be intriguing to see the reaction of the Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 The coalition have lost the battle on their approach being seen as fair given the timid nature of Osbourne's approach to tax avoidance. But can you expect anything more from a Conservative chancellor? If they had been able to convince the public that the approach was fair they would have a good chance of bringing people with them. Clegg's in deep shit with his party - the anti-coalition motions at Sheffield were passed almost unanimously. His speech missed the feelings of the assembled members by a country mile. It is positive that amendments to bills will be put forward on the floor of the house but it will be intriguing to see the reaction of the Tories. Interesting that, Allan. My view is that Clegg, having inhaled the sweet scented opium of power, will join with his new Tory friends at the first sign of anything resembling a full crisis, and contest the next general election as a Tory candidate with his mate, cool Dave, finding a safe seat for him. His steadfast support for the coalition will cost the Lib Dems dearly as the public desert them due to the pro-Tory profile they've developed since entering government. There is simply no coverage (down here at any rate) of the schism you describe between party activists and the leadership. I know from listening to a couple of Lib Dem party members at my place that that schism is a reality, but they worry - understandably, in my view - that the next General Election will yield markedly different results from the last one. As an aside, WTF did Cable mean yesterday when he said on the Politics Show that he identified with many of the issues that the protesters on Saturday's demo held dear but wouldn't dream of going on the march, despite having "been on many demonstrations in my time"? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 As an aside, WTF did Cable mean yesterday when he said on the Politics Show that he identified with many of the issues that the protesters on Saturday's demo held dear but wouldn't dream of going on the march, despite having "been on many demonstrations in my time"? Interesting. Maybe Vince was scared of being beaten up. I'd have thought having represented the Wyndford in his day that he'd be a bit more streetwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) I suspect a lot of people like me will see the Lib Dems as having sold their souls. A minority Tory Government would have had to bow and scrape to get any legislation through and I imagine some of their most abhorrent ideas like the restructuring of the NHS would never have got off the drawing board. But the Lib Dems have bolstered them and given them carte blanche to do as they want - I don't really see any great concessions being won back. People in Scotland remember what the Tories did to communities last time they were in power and I doubt many people will be too forgiving of the Lib Dems for allowing these deeply regressive cuts to go through. If you're going to enter into a coalition, at least share some basic principals at the start. The Lib Dems are hopefully finished in Scotland. The SNP have had a few PR disasters but on the whole have shown that they can run the country in a reasonably competent fashion even as a minority. I imagine they will scrape by and get another bite at it. Edited March 28, 2011 by B.C.G. JAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Maybe Vince was scared of being beaten up. I'd have thought having represented the Wyndford in his day that he'd be a bit more streetwise Vince cable a Barracks boy? Christ, something I didn't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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