Administrators Chaz Posted September 25, 2011 Administrators Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Sorry for the delay in getting this uploaded but as promised here is a full overview of the night: Squad We have now secured Glasgow Green as a training ground which is proving very to be very popular and beneficial to the team. Looking to attract more long term signings like Christie Elliot rather than short term signings like Tam McManus. We now have 5 different youth teams up to Under 19 level. Last year we signed 5 out of 7 youth players who had reached the end of their youth contracts. This compares with 2 out of 10 youth players signed into the Celtic first team and gives the club a good selling point to young players. Jackie McNamara was responsible for setting up the Celtic game and this proved a very worthwhile game giving our young players much needed experience against side like Celtic and the atmosphere created on the day by the fans helped the players. Fans really need to get behind the team, especially the younger players. Manager had to substitute a player recently due to bad reaction from the crowd harming the confidence of the player. There is no great transfer budget to play with and so must focus on signing youth players and good quality loans like Kyle Hutton. Jackie McNamara was instrumental in bringing Kyle Hutton to Firhill and is hopeful to capture more excellent signings like this in the future. Manager is happy with the current squad and any new signing or loan would need to be the right fit for the current squad. Firhill A lot of time and resource led by new CEO Ian Dodd has been spent bringing the Stadium up to standard regards compliance with things like Health & Safety and SFA rules , spent a large sum of money getting the floodlights to the required levels -it was emphasised a lot of work and resource goes on behind the scenes to ensure the Club is run properly on the non Football elements. This has resulted in Firhill being Police Free at all our home games reducing costs significantly. There are no plans to leave Firhill. PTFC still have full ownership of the pitch, and the Jackie Husband stand, and for this to be sold the decision would need to be taken by the major shareholders of the club that aren’t also on the board of Firhill Developments Ltd.. Directors also remind fans that PTFC are entitled to 50% of profits made from Firhill Developments Ltd. Shed The board were asked about the atmosphere on match days at Firhill, and why the shed area couldn’t be moved closer to the away fans. The board advised that keeping the shed where it is saves the club money, on policing costs, adding that the poor atmosphere was more to do with the drop in attendance, and less to do with the location of the shed. Friday Night Football Thistle have agreed to trial this, as the money to be made from TV rights was too tempting for the club to refuse (the TV deal with Alba is worth a seven figure sum to the SFL). It was pointed out that it could result in less fans going to the game, due to other commitments, so the club would lose out on ticket money. It was asked if the SFL planned on making up the shortfall when games are played on a Friday, but this was not known. Warriors The contract we have with the Warriors should run until 2014. However, the club still aren’t sure if they will remain at Firhill this season. Last time they spoke to the Warriors were happy at Firhill. Also weren’t able to say if there was a release clause in the contract, as they didn’t have that information. Community The club have set up a charitable trust to carry out community based activities. All extra money raised from these initiatives will go to the player’s budget. An interesting point was raised that if every fan who attends a game brought 1 friend along, it would raise enough funds to buy another player. Last EGM The board have admitted that a lack of communication was probably the main cause for the changes to be voted against at the last EGM. They felt that as the changes being proposed to the articles were only housekeeping changes to bring the company up to date with modern law – they didn’t need to inform every single shareholder about it before the vote. Because of this there was some misunderstanding from shareholders and fans about what the implications of the proposed changes would mean for the club. They accept that if this was better communicated there might not have been such an issue. Although, they do feel the result of the last vote has helped the club and fans to communicate again, as shown by this meeting, so have taken that as a positive and have offered to set up a yearly meet the board night. Next EGM David Beattie admitted that he was confident that the changes will now be passed at the next EGM on 6th October 2011. There are no conspiracies surrounding what is being proposed and the board have asked the fans to trust them and try to forget what has happened in the past. Long Term Debt Owed £1.4m in 2009 but this has now reduced to £600k in 2011. This is a decrease of £800k and the club are now meeting all obligations on long term loans and also has no VAT implications. Hoping to pay off another couple of hundred thousand of bank debt by 2015. The club would be liable for an exit fee if debts are paid off early. The club have a £417k overdraft with the bank which is to help with the day to day running of the club. At the moment we can break even with an attendance of 2,500. Losses 2009 - 100K in the Red 2010 - 200K in the Red 2011 - 46K in the black For the first time in a long number of years we are not losing money. Focus is on tight cash control and procedures to ensure every penny is accounted for on a weekly basis -Two Accountants Moira and David are focussed 100% on ensuring we run a tight financial ship. Administration Following a question submitted on the night from a forum member, the club were asked if they had considered administration as an option to help Thistle get a fresh start. The Directors advised that this had already been discussed, but the outcome was that it wasn’t an option they could consider. The reason for this is that the penalty for going in to administration is decided by the SFL. So the club can’t predict what would happen in this case. As well as that, the administrators would be able to then come in and sell the stadium, so due to the risks; it’s not an option that the current directors want to consider. Directors Following the last EGM it was reported that some of the current directors felt close to going in another direction from the club, so the question was asked about what guarantee’s we have that if the changes are rejected again at the next EGM, that the current directors won’t walk away? Beattie explained that as a director who is putting his hand in his own pocket for the club to survive on a yearly basis, as well as a huge amount of time and effort, while not taking anything in return. It is easy for the wares and tares to get you down when efforts to help the club are needlessly blocked, or the fans have the wrong idea about what is going on at the club. However, regardless of the way the vote goes at the next EGM, the current board of directors will not be walking away from the club, as they are there to shape the future of the club, and are all looking forward to doing that. He explained that he wants to able to look back on his time at Partick Thistle and say he was proud to be involved with this period in the club’s history. He doesn’t want the club going under on his name and really does have the best interest of the club at heart, as do all other current directors. When asked to name and shame past directors who had a hand in creating the financial mess the club is in, the board stuck to the professional approach they spoke of, by saying it wasn’t about naming and shaming previous directors, it was about looking to the future for the benefit of the club. A question was asked about introducing an “independent director” to the board to act as a reprehensive for the fans. David Beattie said that he would take this on board; however, he and a number of the other directors on the current board are actually already independent directors. This means that they do not own shares in the club. The directors wage entitlement has also been removed. Directors – Funding club Following another question from a forum member, the board were asked if they would be willing to inject more cash into the club. The directors have already put in a lot of their hard earned cash to help Thistle. Last season was an example of this. However, they don’t see this as a viable option going forward as they don’t agree it’s the proper way to run a football club. So they are trying to build the club up, so that it’s self sufficient. Jags Trust David Beattie was asked by the forum if he thought the Jags Trust were representative of the fans, considering that was the basis on which they were originally handed their free shares. David Beattie commented that the Trust membership has been decreasing over the last decade but isn’t able to comment if they aren’t representative of the wider fan base and said that is something the fans have to decide. But he would like to see an active membership of at least 1,000. Future Now that the debts have been sorted out and the directors have stabilised the club, they are now working on a plan for the future, which they see as a 5 year plan, and this includes more of a focus on youth development and they want to get the club involved in more community initiatives. David Beattie admitted that when he took the job he hadn’t intended on ever becoming the Chairman on Partick Thistle FC, although it is a huge honour. He took the job as there was a gap to fill and someone had to step in. He is more than happy to hand over the reigns when he is happy with the state of the club, and the person who would be taking over. Summary Overall it was a very good night with a great turnout from the fans. All the questions that were asked got answered in a professional manner and the board seemed to take a lot of the stuff suggested on board. There does seem to be a real willingness to work with the fans and shape the club for the future and so all in all seems very positive. The vote on the 6th October will be very important but we see no reason why these changes should be voted down by anyone who has Partick Thistle FC at heart. The directors also advised that even if these changes weren’t passed it wouldn’t be the end for Partick Thistle FC. We would just like to say a personal thanks to those involved in arranging the meeting - but also for allowing questions from the forum to be asked on the night and thanks also to Lance for reading our questions out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thanks for the update, via email too. Lots of useful stuff in there. Just to pick up on one thing at the moment... Warriors The contract we have with the Warriors should run until 2014. However, the club still aren’t sure if they will remain at Firhill this season. Last time they spoke to the Warriors were happy at Firhill. Also weren’t able to say if there was a release clause in the contract, as they didn’t have that information. What?! The prospect of Warriors exercising a break clause to leave for next season has been considered by the council and reported in the media and the chairman doesn't have the information as to whether such a clause exists or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted September 25, 2011 Members Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 They also didn't know about the statement the Warriors had released on their website regrding the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 What?! The prospect of Warriors exercising a break clause to leave for next season has been considered by the council and reported in the media and the chairman doesn't have the information as to whether such a clause exists or not? Not correct. I asked if there was a break clause, and if so, what the break date was. The reply was that yes, there was a break, but he didn't have the info to hand on the exact date. Given that there was no pre-warning that this specific q would be asked, I wouldn't consider this to be an unreasonable response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggyman Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Not too unhappy reading that and was elighted to see we were in the black slightly for 2011. If the team can continue to perform like yesterday but carry a bit of luck then im sure the crowds will come back and get us above the 2500 break even mark. I think friday might be the first such attendance. Mon the Jags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Not correct. I asked if there was a break clause, and if so, what the break date was. The reply was that yes, there was a break, but he didn't have the info to hand on the exact date. Given that there was no pre-warning that this specific q would be asked, I wouldn't consider this to be an unreasonable response. Thanks for the clarification, David, because that really leapt out at me as a "WTF?" answer. Perhaps the update being sent to those of us who weren't there would be a fairer reflection of his reply if it said he didn't know offhand the exact date of the break rather than "if there was a release clause in the contract". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Thanks for the clarification, David, because that really leapt out at me as a "WTF?" answer. Perhaps the update being sent to those of us who weren't there would be a fairer reflection of his reply if it said he didn't know offhand the exact date of the break rather than "if there was a release clause in the contract". It's easy enough to slightly mis-remember things. It was my Q tho, so I do recall the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 It's easy enough to slightly mis-remember things. Absolutely. It's only because Mr Cowan, on whose every utterance I try to place my absolute faith, had said positively that the deal was for five years and no less than five years that I got a bit excited and thought maybe he'd got one right for once. What a fool I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Never trust a lawyer when it comes to counting. I should know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Our overall situation is clearly not perfect; which club's is, though? Without being the slightest bit disingenuous, I think I can safely say that things, currently, are infinitely better than they would be were the previous board still in control. In fact, I think it's a virtual certainty that we'd presently be in administration, or worse, possibly. I'm very struck by the speed at which we've stemmed the year-on-year rising losses. Under the regime ancien that simply wouldn't have been even a possibility. I suppose there's not much point in harping on about how atrociously run we've been up until fairly recently, but it sticks in my craw no end the situation with former/absent directors being in possession of so many gratis shares and the remote influence that gives them over the status quo. That to me is simply not on and, even as a symbolic gesture - in the spirit of how they were originally allocated, they should be returned to the Trust PDQ. The Trust itself, however, is another story altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Is the Debt £600k is that include the over draft ? does that mean we owe £600k and £417K = £1m 17.000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Is the Debt £600k is that include the over draft ? does that mean we owe £600k and £417K = £1m 17.000 The debt is a total of £600K - the £417K overdraft is part of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted September 25, 2011 Members Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 The debt is a total of £600K - the £417K overdraft is part of that. That's not my understanding of it. That would mean we've turned a loss of £1.4 million round to a loss of 'only' £600k in two years, I doubt that. Incidentally StolenScone, with reference to your reply to DU and admittedly I was much further back than you, I got the impression from the answer that when he said he didn't know when the date was, I thought it was a bit poor considering the publicity about it and how important it is to the finances of the Club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 That's not my understanding of it. That would mean we've turned a loss of £1.4 million round to a loss of 'only' £600k in two years, I doubt that. Incidentally StolenScone, with reference to your reply to DU and admittedly I was much further back than you, I got the impression from the answer that when he said he didn't know when the date was, I thought it was a bit poor considering the publicity about it and how important it is to the finances of the Club. My understanding was that the debt was a total of £600K. I think I remember at the time of the PropCo Firhill Developments deal that by selling the main stand and the bing, we got cash that took the debt below £1M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I have the accounts for the year ended 31/05/09 to hand and they show a loss for that year of £220,788 and a deficit of £1,382,116 The abbreviated accounts for year ended 31/05/10 show a loss of £117,117 and an investment of £900,000 (PropCo I assume). Therefore a debt of £600,00 looks reasonable to me but I am willing to be corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Incidentally StolenScone, with reference to your reply to DU and admittedly I was much further back than you, I got the impression from the answer that when he said he didn't know when the date was, I thought it was a bit poor considering the publicity about it and how important it is to the finances of the Club. I dunno Will - if the Club are in discussions with the Warriors about extending their stay beyond the break date, then I take the view that these things are best not played out in public, so I didn't really see the point in pushing th subject. It's not something that the Club has 100% control over, so if the board can get a result, then all well and good; if they can't, then we move on. I suspect that if someone was desparate to know the details of the existing deal with the Warriors, then they could do a bit of searching and probably find out. For me, I'm not convinced that's the best use of my time or money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
policemans whistle Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Was there not a report in a paper recently saying the Warriors were just moving training & office base to Scotstoun and would continue to play at firhill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 The debt is a total of £600K - the £417K overdraft is part of that. I think these are two seperate issues - our long term debt was quoted as £600k. There is also a bank facility for an overdraft up to £417k - there was no confirmation of how much of this is actually used or what the balance at this point in time. It was stated that they seek to have this as low as possible and use it to assist with cash flow (i.e. allows them to call on this when needed with the aim of replenishing that when they have the money). Potentially, therefore, we could have the long term debt of £600K PLUS an overdraft of an amount up to £417k. That's my take, anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 Was there not a report in a paper recently saying the Warriors were just moving training & office base to Scotstoun and would continue to play at firhill? I think the Warriors were quoted as saying they liked playing at Firhill, but were happy to train at Scotstoun. Always worth remembering that the Warriors are financed by the SRU - when push comes to shove, they are the ones who'll make the decision and not the Warriors themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 25, 2011 Report Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think these are two seperate issues - our long term debt was quoted as £600k. There is also a bank facility for an overdraft up to £417k - there was no confirmation of how much of this is actually used or what the balance at this point in time. It was stated that they seek to have this as low as possible and use it to assist with cash flow (i.e. allows them to call on this when needed with the aim of replenishing that when they have the money). Potentially, therefore, we could have the long term debt of £600K PLUS an overdraft of an amount up to £417k. That's my take, anyway Not my understanding of what was said. I'm pretty sure the £1.4m deficit in 2009 WAS the overdraft (which would have made it £1m overdrawn and explain the vast interest levels we were paying...roughly £200k p/a according to AC?). Bank wouldn't give us a loan after STJ (vague historic memory)? Anyway, as I understood it, the total figure now owed to the bank is in the region £600k and by 2015 we will have that figure down to the operating overdraft figure of £417k (which is normal for businesses according to DB). How much this change from Red to Black has been a result of certain overheads being met by Europa, and if this increases our debt levels, and how soft/hard this debt becomes provides a grey area for me but, as Stolenscone suggested on another thread, more fool me for not seeking clarity on the night(30/40 people in the room and I would have...but 300? Scary stuff ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Let's put this to bed once and for all: Debt owed to the bank (i.e. Long term bank loan plus working overdraft) in 2009 was c.£1.4m. By 2011, this had been reduced to a little over £600k. In other words, the current long term loan is c.£200k, and the working overdraft is £417k. The significant and quick reduction in long term debt can be attributed to (1) the property deal, which realised c.£900k, and (2) the regular capital payments towards debt reduction that the Club makes. The figure for long term debt (excluding overdraft facilities) of c.£200k is supported by Ian Dodd's comment on the night that the long term debt is expected to be repaid by 2015 - i.e. c£50k pa in scheduled debt repayments by the Club, which sounds about right. As Allan mentions above, there was no mention of just how close to the wind we are currently sailing with the overdraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Ann Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) Not correct. I asked if there was a break clause, and if so, what the break date was. The reply was that yes, there was a break, but he didn't have the info to hand on the exact date. Given that there was no pre-warning that this specific q would be asked, I wouldn't consider this to be an unreasonable response. really? your business has a major source of income that has a break in the contract but you don't know when that is? you think that's reasonable? it might be sort of reasonable if it was an organisation that had hundreds of similar contracts in place but i'm guessing we've not. warriors, greaves and the facilities management company that run the catering and hospitality, can't think of anything else. i was surpised that ian dodd didn't offer an answer as he (impressively) seemed to have a forensic grasp of everything operational within the club including the way the floodlights shone. edited to add: i think ian dodd did confirm a three year break option didn't he? Edited September 26, 2011 by Julie Ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 There is a summary of the evening now on the official website but to confirm what Stolenscone has said here is a quote from it: "Club’s long term debt It is decreasing year on year and the forecast is to have everything other than the overdraft facility cleared by 2015." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Was there much feedback on that survey they took and were that is leading them. As a advocate of Summer fitba did it get a mention at the meeting? Was wondering Whats happening aka development of Glasgow end. Can we have our terracing back please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted September 26, 2011 Report Share Posted September 26, 2011 Was there much feedback on that survey they took and were that is leading them. As a advocate of Summer fitba did it get a mention at the meeting? Was wondering Whats happening aka development of Glasgow end. Can we have our terracing back please. Moves are afoot to have it declared a World Heritage Site. People will converge on Firhill from far and wide, and pay good money simply to behold it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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