Meister Jag Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) If this was a one off incident then I'd agree whole-heartedly. But we don't know if it was - there's no indication in the article whether or not this was a first time incident. Maybe there's a history of cases of him being booked/arrested whilst drunk at football games. We just don't know at this stage and are not likely to find out until after sentencing (and the likelihood is that the sentencing will receive little or no publicity anyway). My only thought was the the solicitors' comments on his behalf make this seem less like a one off event and more part of a ongoing process of which this is but the latest chapter. I also think any judge would be unwilling to discount any of the sentencing options at this stage. No doubt the prosecution asked for this to be taken into consideration which prompted the response from the judge. But I suspect he'd have given the same answer if he'd been ssked if he would consider a fine. Spot on Allan and nothing I can disagree with in your post. However, when I look back, I have to consider myself fortunate not to have been lifted under similar circumstances; but all, thankfully, in the past. But upon reflection and in sobriety, my past behaviour, inexcusable as it was, could all be put down to youthful exuberance, a fondness for cheap sherry and the odd slug of Benylin (don't ask, but the codeine in it helped keep the vocal chords lubricated). Indeed, there will probably be a number of others who've read this thread and thought that they could have been in this lad's shoes. There but for and all that... Agreed that we don't know the full facts and the boy's lawyer will be pleading mitigation (of sorts); nevertheless, I still have a degree of empathy with his plight. Seems a shame that one incident will probably see this boy never coming near a game again. Another Jags fan lost and one who followed the club home and away. I just hope that he's able to put all this behind him and get his life back in order. Edited October 12, 2011 by Meister Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I don't know that it's a good idea for the Club to weigh in on matters of law, so I doubt anything would come of that. I certainly don't envy the job that police have to do. If this guy was drunk, and police did nothing about it, then in the 2nd half he does something stupid like throw a roll of coins at a child, the conversation would be about why they didn't act SOONER. That said, if the policy is as they say, then it needs to be applied evenly and that includes the OF. If you're going to arrest every drunk at an OF game, you might have enough for 5-a-side with a few concessions staff to watch. When is the last time you heard of a thistle fan acting like this inside a ground? The guy was a little bit drunk, and there is no indication that he was in any way violent. Or is this just how you act when you get drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Just an aside but still relevant to a fair point.....Pub talk with a couple of mates about days out at the racing. Most of the patter was about the fun aspect of the day out rather than the racing itself. I won't bore you with all the tales of middle-aged women unable to stand up, short circuiting into pint glasses etc. More to the point one story ended up with one of my mates, very much worse for wear, directing traffic so as their minibus could escape the traffic leaving the course. The other story involves another lad I know, tired and emotional even before the first race, harmlessly collapsed and asleep in the vicinity of the parade ring. On each occasion the police (surprisingly) found the antics amusing and did hee haw. I say surprisingly as both occasions took place at, you've guessed it, PERTH Races and thus under the stewardship of Tayside polis. Just as alcohol is ready available at our football ground during matches as long as these matches don't involve football, levels of drunkenness are graded by whichever sport you follow. Hooliganism = Hi jinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Indeed, there will probably be a number of others who've read this thread and thought that they could have been in this lad's shoes. There but for and all that... I do recall a game at Dumfries when the bus left early (1000) just to make sure we got there in time I had a couple of two litre bottles of Irn Bru which had been liberally laced with whisky - some drunk by others but mostly by me. This was all followed by any number of pints in the social club. (Althougn not playing, Gordon Dalizel was in there for a drink before the game so that'll date it). In the ground, I managed to get the very last pie in the stall. Mind you, it had been purchased by jags365's father who was none too pleased!! I was also considered to be over-exuberant in my support during the match. I was asked by a policeman to "quieten down, sonny". I was not too far short of 30 and he looked about 13!!! Not much was remembered about the game. Slept like a log on the bus back up the road, waking up as we got to the M8/M73 interchange asking the inevitable question....... "What was the score?" Edited October 13, 2011 by Allan Heron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I can tell you that the lad in question, while sometimes being drunk at games, has never been arrested or thrown out at any Thistle game in the past. Trust me on that one. His lifestyle may be in question but never has he been thrown out and regularly drives to games if its the only way he can get there. Not while under the influence of drink, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUMBERNAULD JAG Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 If someone was flung out for singing "party songs" would you all be pulling your hair out and jumping up and down screaming unfair!! unfair!! i think not. Fact is it's been against the law to be intoxicated in a football ground for years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 If someone was flung out for singing "party songs" would you all be pulling your hair out and jumping up and down screaming unfair!! unfair!! i think not. Fact is it's been against the law to be intoxicated in a football ground for years What is intoxicated? Is the limit the same as for driving? Two pints and you can't drive. I'd reckon that the majority of folk who go to a match have drunk more than that before they get into the match. Their reaction times and judgement would be demonstrably impaired (being at Firhill in the first place would suggest problems with judgement!). So are all these people breaking the law? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUMBERNAULD JAG Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm not at all sure on the laws in how much your allowed if any to drink at football so i cant answer that mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUMBERNAULD JAG Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Just think the whole cant do this cant do that now at football is going way over the score Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 When is the last time you heard of a thistle fan acting like this inside a ground? The guy was a little bit drunk, and there is no indication that he was in any way violent. Or is this just how you act when you get drunk? I didn't know that idiot drunken behaviour was limited to one team. The last time I was at a pub, an older gentleman was served a pint, which he dropped on the floor. No worries, they gave him another. Then he drops that one. Then he was escorted out. He wasn't violent in any way. But it was clear that his drink was going to become an issue if allowed to stay. That's the kind of decision the police had to make on the spot. I'm not condoning the match ban, mind you. That's entirely too excessive. But if his "gait" was enough to cause alarm and closer inspection confirmed it wasn't exactly the result of a physical condition, then tossing him out was probably the right call. Maybe my error is assuming events happened as the police said they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I didn't know that idiot drunken behaviour was limited to one team. The last time I was at a pub, an older gentleman was served a pint, which he dropped on the floor. No worries, they gave him another. Then he drops that one. Then he was escorted out. He wasn't violent in any way. But it was clear that his drink was going to become an issue if allowed to stay. That's the kind of decision the police had to make on the spot. I'm not condoning the match ban, mind you. That's entirely too excessive. But if his "gait" was enough to cause alarm and closer inspection confirmed it wasn't exactly the result of a physical condition, then tossing him out was probably the right call. Maybe my error is assuming events happened as the police said they did. Fair enoughski, but a criminal charge, with the possibility of being banned from attending football matches for years to come? Wrong call, and a waste of time and the justice system's resources. Edited October 13, 2011 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) I didn't know that idiot drunken behaviour was limited to one team. The last time I was at a pub, an older gentleman was served a pint, which he dropped on the floor. No worries, they gave him another. Then he drops that one. Then he was escorted out. He wasn't violent in any way. But it was clear that his drink was going to become an issue if allowed to stay. That's the kind of decision the police had to make on the spot. I'm not condoning the match ban, mind you. That's entirely too excessive. But if his "gait" was enough to cause alarm and closer inspection confirmed it wasn't exactly the result of a physical condition, then tossing him out was probably the right call. Maybe my error is assuming events happened as the police said they did. You were the one who suggested he might have become violent. Tell me, what would he have done that having a policeman or steward just sit him back down and tell him to take it easy wouldn't have prevented? Why couldn't they have done that? Edited to add, where did I say that idiot drunken behaviour was limited to one team? I said that thistle fans (at least in the 15 years I've been watching) have never got into that type of trouble inside a ground. The guy clearly did nothing wrong other than have a few drinks and I don't think I've ever been to a game where I've not encountered someone equally as drunk. Edited October 13, 2011 by twinny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Stand Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Wasn't at the game but if the guy was allowed into the ground ( i assume there were enough cops outside the ground checking bags etc.....) then that should be that. End of. His only crime? Being pished and going for a pie. F'kin pathetic. Poor bloke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 And people wonder why attendances are in freefall. The fitba on show might not be the best but I think episodes like this are contributing as much to the lack of interest in the game. I know we have a drink culture in this country which isn't ideal and football supporting shouldn't be about drink. But looking at the wider picture, the game/experience in this country is being stripped of everything that ever made it what it was. Atmosphere, fun, camaraderie, everything is now discouraged to allow for a community-minded, family-orientated, stale as f*ck day out. Can you blame people for not wanting to go to the fitba when you run the risk of being named and shamed as an out-of-hand-drinker on the national news channel?? Or being banned from attending all football grounds in the country? All for having a few pints. It's a disgrace and its all contributing to the downfall of the game in this country. Regarding the defence lawyer, why does he go on about the guy not attending matches since or not wanting to attend matches in future?? And the Sheriff is a tadger aswell. Good Luck Stewart Main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I know we have had issues at Dens Park with stewards etc, but when it comes to the polis McDiarmid Park always seems to be a whole lot worse. They are always having a go at somebody, every game we have there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Stand Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 And people wonder why attendances are in freefall. The fitba on show might not be the best but I think episodes like this are contributing as much to the lack of interest in the game. I know we have a drink culture in this country which isn't ideal and football supporting shouldn't be about drink. But looking at the wider picture, the game/experience in this country is being stripped of everything that ever made it what it was. Atmosphere, fun, camaraderie, everything is now discouraged to allow for a community-minded, family-orientated, stale as f*ck day out. Can you blame people for not wanting to go to the fitba when you run the risk of being named and shamed as an out-of-hand-drinker on the national news channel?? Or being banned from attending all football grounds in the country? All for having a few pints. It's a disgrace and its all contributing to the downfall of the game in this country. Regarding the defence lawyer, why does he go on about the guy not attending matches since or not wanting to attend matches in future?? And the Sheriff is a tadger aswell. Good Luck Stewart Main. Totally agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.D Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How do Clubs and Police stop banned people from attending matches? Nigh impossible in my opinion! What a stupid,stupid penalty. Clubs wanting to maximise income will not make much of an effort to ask punters if they are subject to any banning orders. Plods standing at turnstyles do not have reams of photographs identifying them. Maybe Magistrates imposing these ridiculous bans will somehow be under the impression that culprits will be so intimidated that they dare not flout this law of the land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant Tierney's tackle Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 The sheriff is clearly insane, expecting somebody to go and watch Thistle sober. I’m wondering how many Thistle fans sober up on Sunday with no harm done and go to work with the rest of society on Monday to pay tax for public servant wages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 I reckon our 'icy' reletionship with the Tayside polis is now completely beyond repair. Even if this boy doesn't get done, he has been embarrased and publicly humiliated for (what seems to be) no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 How do Clubs and Police stop banned people from attending matches? Nigh impossible in my opinion! I believe they are required to turn up elsewhere to report their presence when the football is on. How this works in practice with games being played at all days and times I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainmargaret Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks to all for your views on this hopefully the judge will see some sense but i very much doubt i agree my son has be publicly humilated for all the wrong reasons after being allowed entry into game especially when he was deemed fit by the officers who had first stopped him entry why let him in on the first place. only to be taken out by 2 different officers all because he stumbled at half time going to the catering facilities. This is the first time he has been booked or arrested or thrown out a football game.I personally dont think this deserves a nationwide banning order from all games because in no manner of means was he abusive or violent nor was any incidents involved. He is jst a typical young 22 year old who actually won tickets to the game that day went out to enjoy watching the team who he supports with all his heart and for having a few pints is certainly ending up being punished for being unsteady on his feet because of a few pints.Hands on heart how many go to games nowadays and enjoy a pre match pint or 2 before going to support there team. Your views has been very supportive to stewart many thanks to all i jst hope he can come home smiling instead of being made publicly and totally humilated over something so trivial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsfan58 Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 As our next away game is in Dundee, should we have a group unsteady shuffle down the stairs at half-time? A couple of hundred fans staggering down the stairs would be a fair protest to this outrageous treatment of fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 This whole case highlights just how idiots in high viz jackets are ruining watching football as a spectator sport in certain parts of the country. Every time we visit McDirmaid Park (and I can recount incidents going back to our very first visit there), there has been bother purely caused by the police and stewards. It's going to get to the point where Jags fans will pick and choose which away grounds we attend. I know for a fact I'll be nowhere near Dens Park in 2 weeks time because of the attitude of the little Hitler's there. I was at the game in question and can recall one particular steward who was hell bent on causing trouble with the Jags support. Even the police seemed to be embarrassed by him. I detest McDirmaid Park and the people employed by St Johnstone FC. Probably one of the worst away days in all of Scottish Football. Best of luck to Stewart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 As our next away game is in Dundee, should we have a group unsteady shuffle down the stairs at half-time? A couple of hundred fans staggering down the stairs would be a fair protest to this outrageous treatment of fans. That would be hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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