ian_mac Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 With our exit from yet another cup competition, and barring a minor miracle in the league, the season is over before January is into double figures. Surely the financial implications for the club are disastrous. There must be a distinct possibility of the home gate not exceeding 2,000 for the rest of the season. The exception to this would obviously be a large travelling support, but with Ross County in the driving seat, is this likely? When you look at the crowds throughout the division, full time football is quite simply unsustainable. There are at least 7 clubs in the division who are effectively gambling on getting back to the SPL this season or next to justify full time wages. I think that keeping up with the jones's also has a bearing on this. Ayr Utd have been part time for some time now, but out of the other clubs in the league, no one wants to be the first to bite the bullet and take the plunge to part time. We have to be realistic here, we are losing fans weekly, we can longer have a full time team. Yes it means giving up any hope of getting back to the SPL, but so what? The SPL is hardly the promised land these days. In my experience part time players appreciate the chance to play senior football a lot more than some of the cynical journeymen we have at the club just now. I really wouldn't be that bothered if we were the first to go part time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 In terms of part time football David Beattie has said, and repeated it in Saturday's programme, that it is the Board's intention to remain full time next season although that will be more difficult now we are losing the Warriors' income. Personally I can see lots of sense in the case for part time football outside the SPL but as ian_mac says it could be down to who is willing to go down that route first. As we as a club are looking to stay full time then I hope that the crowds don't fall off as we could still finish in the top 3 and that would be a good achievement so get twisting those arms and get a friend or relation along for a match before May. We can also do things like buying a 3 or 5 game package, taking hospitality at a game, buying 50/50 tickets and/or a programme as well as using easyfundraising/easysearch. Obviously not everyone can do all of these things but, and it is often said, every little does help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) With our exit from yet another cup competition, and barring a minor miracle in the league, the season is over before January is into double figures. Surely the financial implications for the club are disastrous. There must be a distinct possibility of the home gate not exceeding 2,000 for the rest of the season. The exception to this would obviously be a large travelling support, but with Ross County in the driving seat, is this likely? When you look at the crowds throughout the division, full time football is quite simply unsustainable. There are at least 7 clubs in the division who are effectively gambling on getting back to the SPL this season or next to justify full time wages. I think that keeping up with the jones's also has a bearing on this. Ayr Utd have been part time for some time now, but out of the other clubs in the league, no one wants to be the first to bite the bullet and take the plunge to part time. We have to be realistic here, we are losing fans weekly, we can longer have a full time team. Yes it means giving up any hope of getting back to the SPL, but so what? The SPL is hardly the promised land these days. In my experience part time players appreciate the chance to play senior football a lot more than some of the cynical journeymen we have at the club just now. I really wouldn't be that bothered if we were the first to go part time. How is that gona make things better though? It's more likely to make days like yesterday all the more regular. Part time football needs to be a last resort no matter what, remember where we went the last time we went part-time? If other Clubs followed suit then it would be a more level playing field and therefore a much more viable option, obviously. Until then though, no thanks. If it's necessary for financial reasons then alas that's just how it needs to be. I would advocate a hybred of PT and FT as the way forward in the short term, and given the contractual situation with various players it would need to be something like that initailly anyway. Is Rowson not on a part time deal already? Edited January 8, 2012 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonjag Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 In terms of part time football David Beattie has said, and repeated it in Saturday's programme, that it is the Board's intention to remain full time next season although that will be more difficult now we are losing the Warriors' income. Personally I can see lots of sense in the case for part time football outside the SPL but as ian_mac says it could be down to who is willing to go down that route first. As we as a club are looking to stay full time then I hope that the crowds don't fall off as we could still finish in the top 3 and that would be a good achievement so get twisting those arms and get a friend or relation along for a match before May. We can also do things like buying a 3 or 5 game package, taking hospitality at a game, buying 50/50 tickets and/or a programme as well as using easyfundraising/easysearch. Obviously not everyone can do all of these things but, and it is often said, every little does help! I'd love to twist some arms and get more folk along to Firhill. However that's an uphill/impossible task when on the rare occasion I actually convince a mate to try Thistle it invariably ends up happening at a game like yesterday's. So, reluctantly, I have stopped trying. Someone said in another thread that the "matchday experience" also leaves a lot to be desired for existing long-suffering supporters like myself.I wholeheartedly agree. Cold pies/substandard fare at the kiosks, bird-crap covered seats in the stand, (refreshingly) vocal away support situated right next to the Kids' Zone, no Thistle atmosphere, truly woeful performances by the team......and a feeling that if you voice anything negative about any of the above you are seen as being "off message" and behaving detrimentally to the future of the club. Let's imagine for a second any other financially struggling business hoping to attract new customers and keep existing ones. Would anyone visit, say, a shoe shop whose stock was limited to one-size fits all plastic, had a team of staff who basically couldn't be @rsed serving you, housed in a three-sided shop with two bare walls, populated by customers who remember how good the shop used to be, so they keep coming in hope of something new, yet now only serve to spit bile at you if you have the gall to complain. How long would that shoe shop realistically last? Firhill. A ghost of a glorious past. Effectively dismantled and killed-off. And it deeply pains me to admit that let alone type it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I've asked the question before but never really got an answer as I suspect no one on here really knows. once again then does anyone have an idea how much we'd save going part time? Myself, I believe that the modern day equivalent of part time football is a squad of players made up largely of products of our youth system, discarded products of other clubs' youth systems, a few younger players from the Junior ranks and senior pros phasing out their careers. I would imagine by just reducing the player budget year on year we'd arrive at above anyway. As reduced budget is inevitable unless gate receipts etc miraculously I can only presume we're well on our way to this part time equivalent. The original poster highlights Ayr Utd. I don't think it's any coincidence that the same club has a creditably youth academy and by location easy access to leading junior football clubs. Probably the way we should be heading but I don't believe there's any plunge taking and bullet biting necessary. All we need do is reduce the player budget to arrive at the same outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The youth system would probably be the first casualty of any major cost-cutting exercise. Jackie seems to prefer playing loan signings from SPL clubs anyway. Bannigan and Scully are the only products of our youth system who even make the bench regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel J. Botch Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now the warriors are on the way oot - get a decent artificial pitch. The you have a 24 / 7 (ok not quite) cash generator. I bet many on here play 5's / 7's and pay through the nose at Goals or the Firhill complex. Who would not swap that for a regular game at Firhill? Couple of portacabins at the bing as changing rooms and you are away. Of course for an extra fee you can use the home changing room!!!!! I can see the money coming in now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now the warriors are on the way oot - get a decent artificial pitch. The you have a 24 / 7 (ok not quite) cash generator. I bet many on here play 5's / 7's and pay through the nose at Goals or the Firhill complex. Who would not swap that for a regular game at Firhill? Couple of portacabins at the bing as changing rooms and you are away. Of course for an extra fee you can use the home changing room!!!!! I can see the money coming in now. Build changing rooms with a bar, a gym and houses on top, sell the houses and keep the bar & gym, moneu every night of the week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Now the warriors are on the way oot - get a decent artificial pitch. The you have a 24 / 7 (ok not quite) cash generator. I bet many on here play 5's / 7's and pay through the nose at Goals or the Firhill complex. Who would not swap that for a regular game at Firhill? Couple of portacabins at the bing as changing rooms and you are away. Of course for an extra fee you can use the home changing room!!!!! I can see the money coming in now. The Warriors will be playing on a taxpayer-funded artificial pitch at Scotstoun - http://www.greenfields.eu/sports-news/irb-approved-pitch-scotstoun-stadium/ "GreenFields has completed a brand new rugby pitch at Scotstoun Stadium... "In addition Scotstoun Stadium has become Glasgow Warriors rugby team’s headquarters and is a center of excellence for rugby. This comes through a partnership between Scottish Rugby Union, Glasgow City Council and Culture and Sport Glasgow" The same surface could have been installed at Firhill. The Warriors got nearly 8,852 against Edinburgh last week - try fitting them all into Scotstoun. The firm is FIFA's preferred artificial turf producer and install a dual use surface in China - http://www.greenfields.eu/sports-news/greenfields-installs-fifa-irb-certified-dual-pitch-china/ It looks like we have been stuffed again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The youth system would probably be the first casualty of any major cost-cutting exercise. Jackie seems to prefer playing loan signings from SPL clubs anyway. Bannigan and Scully are the only products of our youth system who even make the bench regularly. I'm not going to repeat myself yet again on that one. I suppose scrapping the youth system would be considered but I feel that would be ill advised. When we were part time in the 70s, with only Roughie and Alan Hansen as exceptions, there was near to full Monday to Friday employment. So different these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 The Warriors will be playing on a taxpayer-funded artificial pitch at Scotstoun - http://www.greenfiel...tstoun-stadium/ "GreenFields has completed a brand new rugby pitch at Scotstoun Stadium... "In addition Scotstoun Stadium has become Glasgow Warriors rugby team’s headquarters and is a center of excellence for rugby. This comes through a partnership between Scottish Rugby Union, Glasgow City Council and Culture and Sport Glasgow" The same surface could have been installed at Firhill. The Warriors got nearly 8,852 against Edinburgh last week - try fitting them all into Scotstoun. The firm is FIFA's preferred artificial turf producer and install a dual use surface in China - http://www.greenfiel...al-pitch-china/ It looks like we have been stuffed again!! I'm pretty sure that if they have installed an artificial pitch at Scotstoun, it's not actually the pitch in the centre of the running treck that will be used for the Warriors games. This area is also used for athletics events so I cant see an artificial pitch being approved for field events such as Javelin/Shot Putt/Discus etc. Certainly looks like grass - might be wrong though. There is plenty of land to the side of the actual stadium that im sure must be the area being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted January 9, 2012 Members Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 I hear the Warriors moving to Scotstoun has led to one of the local Rugby Clubs getting kicked out. They had played and trained at Scotstoun for years apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 With our exit from yet another cup competition, and barring a minor miracle in the league, the season is over before January is into double figures. Surely the financial implications for the club are disastrous. There must be a distinct possibility of the home gate not exceeding 2,000 for the rest of the season. The exception to this would obviously be a large travelling support, but with Ross County in the driving seat, is this likely? When you look at the crowds throughout the division, full time football is quite simply unsustainable. There are at least 7 clubs in the division who are effectively gambling on getting back to the SPL this season or next to justify full time wages. I think that keeping up with the jones's also has a bearing on this. Ayr Utd have been part time for some time now, but out of the other clubs in the league, no one wants to be the first to bite the bullet and take the plunge to part time. We have to be realistic here, we are losing fans weekly, we can longer have a full time team. Yes it means giving up any hope of getting back to the SPL, but so what? The SPL is hardly the promised land these days. In my experience part time players appreciate the chance to play senior football a lot more than some of the cynical journeymen we have at the club just now. I really wouldn't be that bothered if we were the first to go part time. Go part-time and kiss goodbye to ever getting promoted to the top flight; more likely to sink like Clyde. And as for crowds dwindling, just watch and see how many folk turn up to see part-timers who are clearly going nowhere week in week out, with not even any prospect of getting better. Want to see only 500 people watching Thistle every week? Part-time is the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Go part-time and kiss goodbye to ever getting promoted to the top flight; more likely to sink like Clyde. And as for crowds dwindling, just watch and see how many folk turn up to see part-timers who are clearly going nowhere week in week out, with not even any prospect of getting better. Want to see only 500 people watching Thistle every week? Part-time is the way to do it. Totally agree. I sometimes think people have unrealistic expectations about what we can do as a full-time club on the breadline. Doubt they would be happy with what could be expected from a part-time outfit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Want to see only 500 people watching Thistle every week? Part-time is the way to do it. If correct, and just for clarity say "a greatly reduced attendance" rather than "500", then that's one of the reasons I ask about the true savings of going part time. A lot of overheads will remain constant. We could save on the likes of stewarding, general manpower etc but things like the floodlights and routine costs of staging a match remain constant. We'd have to anticipate advertising and sponsorship to fall away in proportion to the reduction in attendance. I'm not saying we shouldn't go part time but I do question the actual value of such a move. It appears to me that going part time is something that we'd be forced into rather than some sort of comfort zone we could drop into. As it is we're regularly told that our player budget is very low in relative terms to most other full time SPL/SFL outfits. I think it's fair to assume that some of the young lads (Burns, Campbell & Bannigan for example) plus guys like Elliot, Sinclair & O'Donnell are currently on pay that wouldn't be much in excess of a part time wage. Rowson is already part time, Dargo playing for little if anything at all and Rangers probably paying the two new loanees in full. I feel we'd be deluding ourselves if we believe that going part time would bring about necessary financial stability to the Club. Edited January 9, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Go part-time and kiss goodbye to ever getting promoted to the top flight; more likely to sink like Clyde. And as for crowds dwindling, just watch and see how many folk turn up to see part-timers who are clearly going nowhere week in week out, with not even any prospect of getting better. Want to see only 500 people watching Thistle every week? Part-time is the way to do it. We are losing about 500 fans a season at the moment, so there's a real possibility that the crowds could get down to 500 anyway. Ah yes, the "top flight", the promised land, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - do me a favour. The SPL is no great place to be at the moment, look at what's happened to Dunfermline this season. Promotion is just another excuse for the club to bump up prices across the board. If you think we can sustain football on crowds of 1,800 then you are kidding yourself on. We used to be a fairly big club with a decent support, but we aren't anymore. Part time football isn't just a possibility anymore, it's a reality. And for what it's worth I think the time has well and truly come to knock down Firhill. Any emotional attachment I had to the place has disintegrated over the past few years. It's pretty much a one sided ground now, reminds me of Meadowbank. Can't see any reason why we shouldn't cash in and move across the canal, clear the debt and build an 8,000 seater stadium with covered terracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) We are losing about 500 fans a season at the moment, so there's a real possibility that the crowds could get down to 500 anyway. Ah yes, the "top flight", the promised land, the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow - do me a favour. The SPL is no great place to be at the moment, look at what's happened to Dunfermline this season. Promotion is just another excuse for the club to bump up prices across the board. If you think we can sustain football on crowds of 1,800 then you are kidding yourself on. We used to be a fairly big club with a decent support, but we aren't anymore. Part time football isn't just a possibility anymore, it's a reality. And for what it's worth I think the time has well and truly come to knock down Firhill. Any emotional attachment I had to the place has disintegrated over the past few years. It's pretty much a one sided ground now, reminds me of Meadowbank. Can't see any reason why we shouldn't cash in and move across the canal, clear the debt and build an 8,000 seater stadium with covered terracing. Why bother with an 8,000-seater stadium for a part-time club? Is that going to magically increase attendances? You'd only need a 1,000 capacity ground. Might as well share with a junior team. In any case, there's no guarantee that we could "cash in" on Firhill in the current economic climate. And we (the club) only own half of it, remember. I'm no lover of the SPL, but it's where I want to see us playing on a regular basis. What do you mean about Dunfermline, that they're bottom of the league? So what? Somebody's got to be there, and if they get relegated they'll be much better off in cash terms than anybody else in the 1st division, thanks to their season in the SPL. Edited January 10, 2012 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Why bother with an 8,000-seater stadium for a part-time club? Is that going to magically increase attendances? You'd only need a 1,000 capacity ground. Might as well share with a junior team. In any case, there's no guarantee that we could "cash in" on Firhill in the current economic climate. And we (the club) only own half of it, remember. I'm no lover of the SPL, but it's where I want to see us playing on a regular basis. What do you mean about Dunfermline, that they're bottom of the league? So what? Somebody's got to be there, and if they get relegated they'll be much better off in cash terms than anybody else in the 1st division, thanks to their season in the SPL. Dunfermline are not only being embarrassed on the park every week, they've also had to close another stand at EEP due to the fall in attendances. That tells you everything you need to know about the SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkie Jag Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 And for what it's worth I think the time has well and truly come to knock down Firhill. Any emotional attachment I had to the place has disintegrated over the past few years. It's pretty much a one sided ground now, reminds me of Meadowbank. Can't see any reason why we shouldn't cash in and move across the canal, clear the debt and build an 8,000 seater stadium with covered terracing. There is no way with the money we would earn from selling Firhill that we could build a brand new stadium, I really don't see a viable way out of Firhill but do agree we need a move, the state of the stadium is embarrassing and it's only getting worse. Unless a sugar daddy comes in there is no way we can afford to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 There is no way with the money we would earn from selling Firhill that we could build a brand new stadium, I really don't see a viable way out of Firhill but do agree we need a move, the state of the stadium is embarrassing and it's only getting worse. Unless a sugar daddy comes in there is no way we can afford to move. The only way to clear the debt would be sell Firhill and move to Scotstoun with the Warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineens weegie army Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm pretty sure that if they have installed an artificial pitch at Scotstoun, it's not actually the pitch in the centre of the running treck that will be used for the Warriors games. This area is also used for athletics events so I cant see an artificial pitch being approved for field events such as Javelin/Shot Putt/Discus etc. Certainly looks like grass - might be wrong though. There is plenty of land to the side of the actual stadium that im sure must be the area being discussed. Main pitch is being torn up in the next few weeks anyway (to install undersoil heating, drainage ect) - I don't know for sure, but I would be surprised if the new pitch isn't grass though. Think the one talked about above is the one we use for training, to the west of the main pitch. And fitting 8,852 into Scotstoun - can raise the capacity to 15,000 if need be (will hold 15,000 for the IRB 7's in May). And I wouldn't be surprised to see another crowd larger than the current capacity of Scotstoun on sunday coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Main pitch is being torn up in the next few weeks anyway (to install undersoil heating, drainage ect) - I don't know for sure, but I would be surprised if the new pitch isn't grass though. Think the one talked about above is the one we use for training, to the west of the main pitch. And fitting 8,852 into Scotstoun - can raise the capacity to 15,000 if need be (will hold 15,000 for the IRB 7's in May). And I wouldn't be surprised to see another crowd larger than the current capacity of Scotstoun on sunday coming Whats the general opinion of the egg chasing fraternity about the Scotstoun move? I was a regular attendee during the Hughendon to Firhill switch and it wasn't popular at first but the eggoids seemed to get to love Firhill pretty quickly, probably because of the facilities (yes, even Firhill has better facilities than Hughendon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicofan Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Go part-time and kiss goodbye to ever getting promoted to the top flight; more likely to sink like Clyde. And as for crowds dwindling, just watch and see how many folk turn up to see part-timers who are clearly going nowhere week in week out, with not even any prospect of getting better. Want to see only 500 people watching Thistle every week? Part-time is the way to do it. Its going that way anyway mate..year after year playing for nothing...at least clyde have something to build for/aim for!!! Year after year we can not get a manager to get the players required to get us out the division or manage them in a correct manner to do so!! Feel crap continually posting negative stuff...but there's a lot of fed up jags fans on here and the mood is pretty much constant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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