Steven H Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Right now the pyramid would be a mess with several hundred junior clubs showing no interest. If it came to it, and a WoS club was relegated, Clyde for instance, would be playing in a unbalanced setup full of clubs in East Lothian and the Borders. The Netherlands have a population over 3 times of our own. Portugal have a population of double. Sweden 9 million and Denmark are the only one anywhere close with a few hundred thousand extra. While there is definitely room for improvement with the likes of them, Ireland and Croatia reaching major tournaments, largely fuelled by the media there are pie in the sky expecations for the National team and clubs competing in Europe. Never ever will we compete with the likes of Holland or Portugal. Summer football, 16 team leagues, reforms of coaching (which have been done a trillion times anyway) will not make us anymore successful. The comparisons with England are laughable. We are a nation of 5 million people and can only piss with the very small **** we've got. Comparisons with England could be made when 45 million people are shipped in. Comparisons with England? England were mentioned as one of the top 10 teams in world football, and like the other teams mentioned, have a league in excess of 15 teams. Was in response to your claim that league sizes are not the problem, well ALL the top International teams have big professional leagues and Scotland was at least able to compete when our leagues were bigger and we were developing our own players. Increased league sizes alone will not fix the problem, that's a huge and lengthy job, but for me it would be a step that needs to be taken alongside a number of other steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I couldn't care less what impact league size has on the Scottish national team. I'm concerned with what impact league size has on my enjoyment of watching Thistle and the way it is right now is utterly utterly terrible. Livi 7 times a season, give me a bloody break (and a bigger league). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The pyramid is difficult to sort out. The junior clubs simply aren't interested. I agree it's tricky but I don't think anyone is suggesting a straightforward pyramid system. The principal thing is the SFL closed shop has to be done away with. I must admit to not knowing much about Junior football these days but even I'm aware that most Junior clubs have little desire to play at the bottom end of senior football but I don't think that's the case with the likes of the Highland and East of Scotland leagues. It's up to the SFA to organise a system where if Cove Rangers were to get promoted into the fourth tier at the expense of say Stranraer the latter doesn't end up playing in the Highland league. That said it wouldn't worry Clyde if they came bottom of the 3rd. They'd groundshare with Wick Academy if needs be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Very good trashing job so far. Any positive suggestions to make? Play-offs between the first and second tier, short winter break (which has already been implemented), expansion of first division, fairer distribution of revenue, more support and funding for artificial surfaces, reality checks for much of the population. Further down the line a strong and competitive pyramid with universal support. Edited June 26, 2012 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Play-offs between the first and second tier, short winter break (which has already been implemented), expansion of first division, fairer distribution of revenue, more support and funding for artificial surfaces, reality checks for much of the population. Further down the line a strong and competitive pyramid with universal support. So, no change for the SPL, other than the restoration of the play-off (i.e., the system that got us relegated for the Arabs and then was immediately stopped)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yes, this was established earlier (at least I was closer than Twinny in my guestimations ). Clearly population and size of player is not the issue, we've always had wee players and a population of round about 5 million, yet at one point in the not too distant past we could at least compete in Championship Finals like the Euros and World Cups. Instead of trying to see ways in which Scotland are limited on what we can achieve, why don't we try to see what can be done to maxamise those limitations? We've never had a better chance to do something to benefit the game for a change, so anyone else got suggestions? Away ye go! We were never close to competing We were there to make up the numbers back when Europe got a fair number of slots for the World Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Away ye go! We were never close to competing We were there to make up the numbers back when Europe got a fair number of slots for the World Cup. Aye that's what I meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 So, no change for the SPL, other than the restoration of the play-off (i.e., the system that got us relegated for the Arabs and then was immediately stopped)? It provides excitement and extra income for clubs, thats my reasoning. None of the expansion options provide the clubs with any extra revenue than the current setup does, and realistically wheres the added excitement? You play more teams, but as a result, more meaningless games, its a double edged sword. I also think expanding the SPL causes more problems for the remaining clubs outwith the top tier trying to remain full-time by further limiting their income. I also forgot to say, I would move youth football to the "summer" months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Two up, two down. No play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gg1971 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 http://www.paisleydailyexpress.co.uk/renfrewshire-sport/2012/06/27/gilmour-senses-16-team-spl-is-on-the-horizon-87085-31267620/ Is this what's on offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 http://www.paisleyda...87085-31267620/ Is this what's on offer? Obviously given fan power the SPHell chairman didnt want to be seen backing NEWCO to stay in SPHell. Next best option (for them)....get them into Div 1, restructure leagues, give 4 promotion spots next season in the knowledge that the likelyhood is that NEWCO will get one of them, then its back to normality with THEM back in the league. Just hope the SPHell chairmen dont fall for it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 http://www.paisleyda...87085-31267620/ Is this what's on offer? Do I read that as four clubs up and no club relegated? I can see a certain appeal to that if you were a lower league SPL club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I'd just like to say at this point, that I'm loving how Neil Doncaster can't do a d*mn thing any more to preserve his holy grail of 4 ugly sisters games per season, the mangy tail that has wagged our dog of a league structure for so long. With Rangers demise goes the 11-1 stranglehold though I'm not celebrating until it's happened, until the ugly sister with the face transplant is shown the door and told to go away for at least 3 years. Happier days in prospect, but I hope and pray that nobody chickens out, and that our chairman holds his end up, the way we want and expect him to, because we are the club. Edited June 27, 2012 by beep0608 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'd just like to say at this point, that I'm loving how Neil Doncaster can't do a d*mn thing any more to preserve his holy grail of 4 ugly sisters games per season, the mangy tail that has wagged our dog of a league structure for so long. With Rangers demise goes the 11-1 stranglehold though I'm not celebrating until it's happened, until the ugly sister with the face transplant is shown the door and told to go away for at least 3 years. Happier days in prospect, but I hope and pray that nobody chickens out, and that our chairman holds his end up, the way we want and expect him to, because we are the club. Spot on. Though I'm pretty certain they're not going to be in the SPL, in fact I think they may be gone, with lawyers grazing over the carcass for years to come... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 In my opinion the new merged league should have 3 divisions and 48 clubs. In order to avoid confusion, the name should not be SFL, but "AFLS (Association Football League of Scotland)" or something. And football season should start in March and end in November. I believe that no one likes winter games in cold weather. If the number of league games is 30, the calender is not busy. The bottom team of the 3rd Division is relegated to junior football. The 2nd bottom team of the 3rd Division must play promotion/relegation playoffs against the winners of the regional leagues (West of Scotland, East of Scotland, Highland). . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Breaking News on the BBC website - seems that plans are definitely afoot to send the filth into SFL1 - total carve up if true and the death of the game http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18625293 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 They're definitely going to try it on and call the fans' bluff. Imagine watching Bomber leading his slobbering mob up Maryhill Road in a month or two to Firhill, filling the air with the songs about their proud history and with a huge posse of blue nose/brown nose hacks and TV crews follow following them all the way. That's what's on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Update on the BBC site just 15 minutes after their original breaking news bit: Rangers newco: Plans for club to enter Scottish Division One BBC Scotland has learned of plans being put in place that would allow Rangers to move directly into Scottish Division One in the coming season. Rangers FC plc are soon to be liquidated and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club. But Green's Rangers newco has not gained support to replace the old club in the Scottish Premier League. And senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start season 2012/13 in the second tier. There are also plans in place for a new organisation to be called 'The Scottish Professional Football League' to become effective in 12 months' time. The main points of the propsals are: Rangers are to be relegated with immediate effect and be replaced in the SPL by Dundee. Television rights for Rangers matches in Scottish Football League Division One are to be bought by the SPL for £1m. The SPL and SFL will merge into one body at the start of season 2013/14. Play-offs between the top two divisions will be introduced in time for the coming season There will be an increase in the parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the SPL. Changes will be made to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up. A new pyramid system will become effective from season 2014/15 that will allow a potential place in the new league format for a team from either the Highland league or newly-created 'Lowland League'. Rangers newco acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge. It is understood Rangers chief executive Green has been "briefed" by Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie on the plans to gain their approval. All these changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days. Edited June 28, 2012 by gianlucatoni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Much fuller details on that page now of the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Much fuller details on that page now of the plan. http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18625293 Totally unacceptable! The plan breaks current SFL (still in place for the coming season) rules. Newco should apply for the proposed "Lowland League" below the SFL. Edited June 28, 2012 by kni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Goodbye to Scottish Football if this happens! PTFC should be issuing a clear, definitive statement saying NO TO NEWCO in SFL1. Over to you Mr Beattie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Goodbye to Scottish Football if this happens! PTFC should be issuing a clear, definitive statement saying NO TO NEWCO in SFL1. Over to you Mr Beattie. Plain and simple, like the man says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Still requires the clubs to vote for it. Hopefully the SFHell chairmen read between the lines and take THEIR fans views on board and not the media. Scottish football is at the crossroads!!! This vote is gonna make or break it!! Edited June 28, 2012 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Goodbye to Scottish Football if this happens! PTFC should be issuing a clear, definitive statement saying NO TO NEWCO in SFL1. Over to you Mr Beattie. But is it Mr Beattie's decision to make? The shareholders control the club and will decide how it votes on such a plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Can't help thinking this is a kind of made up story, or at least highly exaggerated to make more out of it than is really there. The Newco doesn't have a registration, has few players, mostly boys and it's financial situation and assets including ground are up in the air. I think enough chairmen know that Newco are a poisoned chalice (or vessel with a pessel) and a rejection of them is actually in their self interest. Also how much time is there for this? You'll need agreement from all bodies so will SFL3 vote for relegation from their division? Will they and Div 2 be pleased to see Newco drop into Div 1 and miss out on the money from that? I suspect a few guys with an agenda are pushing this to friendly journos in the hopes of stirring things up. The only way I could see it working would be if the Newco was banned for a year but a deal was made to invite them in into a new enlarged SPL then. That would give time to sort out the Newco (whoever's it was) and avoid the disaster of having a potentially imploding Newco in the league while still getting them in later - and claiming the moral high ground in between. Edited June 28, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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