joejag Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Berwick Rangers join Stenhousemuir in saying YES!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 It's been nice to see so many old faces still here, although I can't help feeling things haven't moved on at all for the forums since Lianne's day. I find Twitter much more useful and I've never been happier to be out of this game. (BTW, on a retro theme, I've contacted admin twice now asking for advice on how to change my username back to an earlier one I used, but don't seem to have had any response. Help.) Even though you want to throttle these clubs that are giving in to this, it's very hard to blame them for caving in. There can't be many people in football at any level who are enjoying being a part of it any more. If I was being oppressed in my business like these guys are, I'd be looking for a new business. And since football isn't the main job of most of them, it must be even tougher to justify to their families. If there's a Mrs Turnbull Hutton, what's she likely to be telling him would be better for his health and happiness? Anyway, what's glaringly obvious now is that the fans have turned up to a financial fight armed mostly with a sense of fairness. I can't see that working out well for us against people whose principles are non-existent. They're playing to win and we're mostly praying for things to turn out OK in the end. If the game's finances are really in such a dire state, and that might be true, then the fans have got much more muscle than they've ever realised or taken responsibility for. I think the prospect of boycotting other clubs to put them out of business is very misguided and will eventually come back to bite us, but we all really need to sharpen up the message to our own clubs at what the cost will be to them and their sponsors if they give in to this pressure (or to their own worst instincts). Us worrying that the club will lose its soul means nothing to them. Losing its income they can understand. That's dangerous ground, but I doubt you'll get a firm commitment to reject Newco in Div 1 or in an SPL2 without being prepared to go there. But reject this and the SPL will be so weakened and the Old Firm stranglehold finally, but maybe only temporarily, broken that meaningful reconstruction will still be on the agenda. This is no time to be bluffed into a sell-out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Berwick Rangers join Stenhousemuir in saying YES!! Haven't seen that yet but having read Stenny's statement it is the the figures mentioned in it that fascinate me. It almost contradicts Clyde's wonderfully constructed statement. So who is telling the truth? Well, if you were in any doubt as to who is I would suggest joining Twitter and reading David Stoker's timeline. David, if you didn't know, is a Livi director who has been very open, & sometimes vociferous, in this whole episode. His thinking, and I'm assuming his club's thinking, is that SPL and Neil Doncaster are using these financial figures to bully the SFL clubs into getting what they want. Bear in mind that if there's was to be an SPL2, Livi are likely to be one of the clubs that are 'invited' in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 But reject this and the SPL will be so weakened and the Old Firm stranglehold finally, but maybe only temporarily, broken that meaningful reconstruction will still be on the agenda. This is no time to be bluffed into a sell-out. This! That's where the clubs in the SFL should be getting together in their secret meets & late night conference calls to make sure they get his. Unfortunately it looks as though fan power will be only thing that gets us close to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) David Stoker has been excellent , some really good information that isnt coming out of anywhere else. What gets me on this whole thing (and from the Stenny statement) is that without ZombieRangers the SPL is worth only £3m a year to TV companies. So lets get this 100% correct its worth approx 40 mins of a mid table EPL game or just over 5% of the total English Championship TV deal. Someone is lying somewhere or is just a totally shit negotiator of contracts. Edited July 6, 2012 by Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) David Stoker has been excellent , some really good information that isnt coming out of anywhere else. What gets me on this whole thing (and from the Stenny statement) is that without ZombieRangers the SPL is worth only £3m a year to TV companies. So lets get this 100% correct its worth approx 40 mins of a mid table EPL game or just over 5% of the total English Championship TV deal. Someone is lying somewhere or is just a totally shit negotiator of contracts. This is a key point - I saw this posted on RTC: http://saintinasia.w...pare-to-europe/ Can I just add the reminder ... Green hasn't bought the assets yet. He has made an agreement to do so by 30th July. However there are confidential parts to that agreement. What are they? Could it be they would only be viable if they are dropped in no lower than Div 1 and he has got some get-out clause re viability? And is it likely that Doncaster and Regan were aware of this confidential item? Edited July 6, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 This is a key point - I saw this posted on RTC: http://saintinasia.w...pare-to-europe/ Can I just add the reminder ... Green hasn't bought the assets yet. He has made an agreement to do so by 30th July. However there are confidential parts to that agreement. What are they? Could it be they would only be viable if they are dropped in no lower than Div 1 and he has got some get-out clause re viability? And is it likely that Doncaster and Regan were aware of this confidential item? http://www.football365.com/spl/7868583/Rangers-to-let-SFL-decide Green quote - "If our application were to be accepted, Rangers will play in whichever division the SFL sees fit and we will move forward from there." So it seems that he will accept SFL3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 As the late Peter Falk would say, Oh, and one other thing ... This whole freakshow by the SFA and the SPL depends very much on there being a Rangers successor club at all. Hands up who'd be surprised if the SFL sheep nodded through the SFA's deal with the devil and the liquidators arrived at Ibrox to find a huge box of poison pills the club's new owner, the SFA and the leagues have completely overlooked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) As the late Peter Falk would say, Oh, and one other thing ... This whole freakshow by the SFA and the SPL depends very much on there being a Rangers successor club at all. Hands up who'd be surprised if the SFL sheep nodded through the SFA's deal with the devil and the liquidators arrived at Ibrox to find a huge box of poison pills the club's new owner, the SFA and the leagues have completely overlooked? I'm sure they hope that if they can push it through there will be an element of fait accompli and that plus public pressure from the money media (excepting a tiny minority of exceptions) up here will pressure them to be careful how they handle things and maybe hold off from doing the worst. Of course it could be that HMRC and BDO are quite capable of being as tough if not tougher than they are. If so then our so called football authorities are trying to force a timebomb on to the league. Green quote - "If our application were to be accepted, Rangers will play in whichever division the SFL sees fit and we will move forward from there."So it seems that he will accept SFL3. Is it possible anyone believes what this guy says? Or anythign any of them involved in this says? Actually, thinking about, he may actually for once be tellng the truth - but "moving forward from there" for Green might be something quite different from building a new club. Edited July 6, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 This! That's where the clubs in the SFL should be getting together in their secret meets & late night conference calls to make sure they get his. Unfortunately it looks as though fan power will be only thing that gets us close to it. Correct. If SFL clubs stick together, SPL2 is a non-starter. It only takes 10 full members of the SFA to call on the SFA to instigate an EGM which must be "questioning an act or omission of the (SFA) Board". In my view they are omitting to yank Regan's leash and tell him to stop bringing the game into disrepute. Donald Findlay sounded pissed off in his press quotes. I'm sure he could be persuaded to draft a letter...... Of course, if there is a significant level of back-sliding, as hinted by the Stenny statement, the game's a bogey. For all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 This is a key point - I saw this posted on RTC: http://saintinasia.w...pare-to-europe/ Can I just add the reminder ... Green hasn't bought the assets yet. He has made an agreement to do so by 30th July. However there are confidential parts to that agreement. What are they? Could it be they would only be viable if they are dropped in no lower than Div 1 and he has got some get-out clause re viability? And is it likely that Doncaster and Regan were aware of this confidential item? That is a great piece of analysis from the St Johnstone fan that writes it. However with us being part of the UK, our market is probably more affected by the dominance of English football than other European countries would be for England, Spain, Germany or Italy. I didn't look at the brand analysis, so perhaps that was taken into account there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 That is a great piece of analysis from the St Johnstone fan that writes it. However with us being part of the UK, our market is probably more affected by the dominance of English football than other European countries would be for England, Spain, Germany or Italy. I didn't look at the brand analysis, so perhaps that was taken into account there. Must cut both ways, though. For a small country, we get our football shown in a market 10 times the size. The price I'd expect to pay for that is that we don't get the prime kick-off slots, Scottish games maybe used as a lead-in to English games. That would be a pain (mainly for OF fans) but understandable. Getting your whole game gutted for it seems a bit much, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Also BT is looking to expand into Football TV. Our deal had 2 years to run. Why the £80m. (£16m p.y.) now? If they'd waited a bit they might have had Sky/BT bidding against each other and upped the price a little. Did Sky know BT were coming along soon? Did SPL/SFA but they are in Sky's pocket? Why not they seem to be in Rangers'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Must cut both ways, though. For a small country, we get our football shown in a market 10 times the size. The price I'd expect to pay for that is that we don't get the prime kick-off slots, Scottish games maybe used as a lead-in to English games. That would be a pain (mainly for OF fans) but understandable. Getting your whole game gutted for it seems a bit much, though. It could work that way, but it doesn't. English people sometimes say they'll watch OF games and no other Scottish games. Others don't watch any. I don't think the SPL is that inferior (in terms of quality) to the Championship, but the Championship is packaged so much better. If we played more Friday night games, delivered analysis from someone a little more intelligent than Charlie Nicholas or less boring than Pat Nevin and got rid of the s*** opening credits to programmes and thought up something that didn't make Scottish football look amateur from the outset of a programme, we might have a product worth watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balintore jag Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Stenny statement was really strange. They say they will vote Yes to Division 1 for Sevco “for the above reasons”. I had difficulty understanding these reasons. Here is a flavour of their views: “Should the SFL vote not to accept Rangers Newco into Division 1, the Scottish FA would expect the SPL 2 proposals to be tabled. Whilst this is not the preferred option of the Scottish FA it would be the most likely outcome. In this situation however the Scottish FA would allow Rangers Newco current appeal against sanctions to be heard by the appellate committee. With the Scottish FA’s position fully laid out it was evident that some of the options which were under consideration would not be supported by them and in fact limited our ability to affect the final outcome.” ?????????? So thats why they will vote Yes to Sevco in Division 1. !!!! I did note that their statement failed to mention anything about fairness, justice or integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 The Stenny statement was really strange. They say they will vote Yes to Division 1 for Sevco “for the above reasons”. I had difficulty understanding these reasons. Here is a flavour of their views: “Should the SFL vote not to accept Rangers Newco into Division 1, the Scottish FA would expect the SPL 2 proposals to be tabled. Whilst this is not the preferred option of the Scottish FA it would be the most likely outcome. In this situation however the Scottish FA would allow Rangers Newco current appeal against sanctions to be heard by the appellate committee. With the Scottish FA’s position fully laid out it was evident that some of the options which were under consideration would not be supported by them and in fact limited our ability to affect the final outcome.” ?????????? So thats why they will vote Yes to Sevco in Division 1. !!!! I did note that their statement failed to mention anything about fairness, justice or integrity. A Black day for their club that will tarnish their name for a long long time. Only a revolt by their fans can save them now............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 That is a great piece of analysis from the St Johnstone fan that writes it. However with us being part of the UK, our market is probably more affected by the dominance of English football than other European countries would be for England, Spain, Germany or Italy. I didn't look at the brand analysis, so perhaps that was taken into account there. Good point Twinny, and yet another reason to vote for independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 One of our fans on Twitter, not sure what his name is on here, spotted that Raith have another statement out tonight: http://www.raithrovers.net/3998/sfl-special-general-meeting-friday-13th-july-2012.htm Straight talking keeps coming from elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 One of our fans on Twitter, not sure what his name is on here, spotted that Raith have another statement out tonight: http://www.raithrove...h-july-2012.htm Straight talking keeps coming from elsewhere. Sadly yes. Absolutley brilliant. Or at least it seems so cpmpared to the lies and obfuscations from Doncaster, Regan and the monkey media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Once again, Raith Rovers tell it like it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Aye, well done to the Rovers, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Stewart Regan declares that Andy Murray will lose on Sunday unless SevCo FC is admitted to SFL1!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Hamilton Accies statement: http://www.acciesfc.co.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Anyone else get muddled up knowing which thread to put a sevco post into? This was top of the board so I'll put it in here.... Alex Thomson is on Off the Ball from 1pm. Should be a very good listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 This is an interesting perspective. Oooooowch! It begs the question if any Scottish league should be taking Mr Green's little business - that he's got three weeks to raise £5.5m for and that's just the assets that might be deemed undervalued by BDO/HMRC, not a working football set-up - at all. (Puff! Wheeze!) http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/07/07/sevco-director-admits-rangers-assets-bought-at-undervalue-liquidator-should-take-assets-back/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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