GrantB Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 any pearls and handbag and bouffant lovers wish to comment on this list of shame? or shall we just sweep these and other acts under the carpet for another 30 years? Another one from the union supporting Record. Worryingly, the 2 Tories in question are part of Cameron's government. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatchers-tories-plotted-secretly-2982761 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Plus ca change...... Vote YES and put an end to this plundering of Scotland's finances for more and more vanity projects in the south of England, or vote NO for more of the same, except worse as an extra 4 billion quid is earmarked to be slashed from the Scottish budget by Westminster. Vote YES to see more being spent on education, social services and health, or vote NO to see investment in these cut back further in order to support the same vanity projects and others like aircraft carriers that the skint British government can't even afford to stock with planes, Trident submarines - criminally expensive, dangerous, and will never be used, and yet greater disparity between the rich and the poor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Had her faults but I enjoyed her giving the unions a good kicking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Another one from the union supporting Record. Worryingly, the 2 Tories in question are part of Cameron's government. http://www.dailyreco...ecretly-2982761 That's the Record for you. 'Oh, the Tories! Look what they are doing now! They evil, they are heartless, they are scum! Oh, the humanity! By the way, vote no.' I think they are hoping their readership will fail to join the dots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 That's the Record for you. 'Oh, the Tories! Look what they are doing now! They evil, they are heartless, they are scum! Oh, the humanity! By the way, vote no.' I think they are hoping their readership will fail to join the dots. Voting NO is not a vote for the tories like voting YES is not a vote for the SNP........ well I was told that on here about the latter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Quinn Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 vote no and vote ukip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Voting NO is not a vote for the tories like voting YES is not a vote for the SNP........ well I was told that on here about the latter Yes, that is perfectly true. Voting No is not a vote for the Tories; the referendum is not an election. Voting No is a vote to ensure that our governments are, in effect, chosen for us by the much larger electorate of England, many of whom happen to vote Tory (as is their wont). Voting Yes, on the other hand, is a vote to ensure that all subsequent governments of Scotland reflect the choices of the majority of the electorate of Scotland. The Daily Record, currently, advocates that the former scenario remains. Which is odd, because they seem to really, really hate the Tories. I suppose it shifts a few copies though. Now, theoretically, a Tory or Tory-ish government could be elected in an independent Scotland, should such a party exist. But since nae bugger here votes Tory, save for the occasional random oddball and a few daft farmers in the borders, I reckon it would be unlikely in the medium term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 Yes, that is perfectly true. Voting No is not a vote for the Tories; the referendum is not an election. Voting No is a vote to ensure that our governments are, in effect, chosen for us by the much larger electorate of England, many of whom happen to vote Tory (as is their wont). Voting Yes, on the other hand, is a vote to ensure that all subsequent governments of Scotland reflect the choices of the majority of the electorate of Scotland. The Daily Record, currently, advocates that the former scenario remains. Which is odd, because they seem to really, really hate the Tories. I suppose it shifts a few copies though. Now, theoretically, a Tory or Tory-ish government could be elected in an independent Scotland, should such a party exist. But since nae bugger here votes Tory, save for the occasional random oddball and a few daft farmers in the borders, I reckon it would be unlikely in the medium term. 265.000 at the last scottish election voted tory and 900.000 voted for the snp so not that bad for a country that hates the tories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 265.000 at the last scottish election voted tory and 900.000 voted for the snp so not that bad for a country that hates the tories 13.9% of the constituency vote and 12.4% of the list, for a party that is in power at the UK level. If this result was 'not bad' why did it culminate in Annabel Goldie's resignation and convince one-time leadership contest frontrunner Murdo Fraser to conclude that the Scottish wing of the party should be ditched in favour of a new party that is autonomous from the Conservatives in Westminster? It doesn't sound like even the Conservatives themselves agree with your assessment of the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 13.9% of the constituency vote and 12.4% of the list, for a party that is in power at the UK level. If this result was 'not bad' why did it culminate in Annabel Goldie's resignation and convince one-time leadership contest frontrunner Murdo Fraser to conclude that the Scottish wing of the party should be ditched in favour of a new party that is autonomous from the Conservatives in Westminster? It doesn't sound like even the Conservatives themselves agree with your assessment of the results. i was answering Guy Incognitos post But since nae bugger here votes Tory, save for the occasional random oddball and a few daft farmers in the borders, I reckon it would be unlikely in the medium term. so what is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 i was answering Guy Incognitos post so what is your point? My point is it was a bad result and that there isn't a hope in hell of there being a Conservative government in Scotland in the short, medium or even long term, as Guy Incognito suggests, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 My point is it was a bad result and that there isn't a hope in hell of there being a Conservative government in Scotland in the short, medium or even long term, as Guy Incognito suggests, that's all. i would like to think that scotland couldnt be that bitter and twisted, but i could be wrong and 276.000 isnt that bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 i would like to think that scotland couldnt be that bitter and twisted, but i could be wrong and 276.000 isnt that bad Nothing bitter and twisted about it: most Scots simply refuse to have the piss taken out them by a bitterly traditional anti-working class party, and so reject them at every turn. Credit to them for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 i would like to think that scotland couldnt be that bitter and twisted, but i could be wrong and 276.000 isnt that bad It's not fair to imply that everyone who doesn't vote Tory is 'bitter and twisted'. I don't vote Tory because I find their underlying ideology to be divisive, unjust and damaging to macro-economic stability. And 276,000 really is that bad for the leading centre-right party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Nothing bitter and twisted about it: most Scots simply refuse to have the piss taken out them by a bitterly traditional anti-working class party, and so reject them at every turn. Credit to them for it. wow eck and the snp are not that bad......well ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 It's not fair to imply that everyone who doesn't vote Tory is 'bitter and twisted'. I don't vote Tory because I find their underlying ideology to be divisive, unjust and damaging to macro-economic stability. And 276,000 really is that bad for the leading centre-right party. in a country that could be said to be more left than right i think that is pretty good. on reading you post above , who would you vote for as none of the available party's meet that criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 You might as well be a turkey voting for Christmas as a working man voting for the Tories... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 For all their sins the Tories usually have to pick up the pieces when Labour have left UK plc as an economic basket case e.g. post Callaghan and Brown governments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Don't really understand the whole "getting the government we want" argument. There is no block vote on country grounds. There are votes on party, cross-party and individual (free votes). It's a UK election so results are taken on a UK basis. In Westminster 2010 elections the results were SNP 491 000 votes. Conservatives 412 855 votes. Liberal Democrats 465 471 votes. So Conservative Liberal Democrat coalition voted by 878 326 Scottish votes. I was actually quite pleased with the result. Not a member of either party or campaigner but Labour had been in long enough and went mental on spending. It was time for a change. There are different voting patterns for Local Elections, European Elections and Holyrood Elections so people pick and choose what stats suit their passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 Don't really understand the whole "getting the government we want" argument. There is no block vote on country grounds. There are votes on party, cross-party and individual (free votes). It's a UK election so results are taken on a UK basis. In Westminster 2010 elections the results were SNP 491 000 votes. Conservatives 412 855 votes. Liberal Democrats 465 471 votes. I notice you have omitted the Labour votes there - accidentally, I am sure. For reference, over a million people in Scotland voted Labour in the 2010 Westminster elections, yet we ended up with a Conservative-led coalition with the Lib Dems. That's what the "getting the government we vote for" argument is about. I suspect you already knew that though, Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 in a country that could be said to be more left than right i think that is pretty good. But the unpalatability of Conservative policies has to be regarded as to an extent responsible for Scotland's reputedly social democratic orientation. You therefore appear to be arguing that they have done well considering their failure to convince peope of the merits of a centre-right ideology. This is like arguing that Paolo Di Canio's record at Sunderland was quite good considering he bought poor players, is tactically naieve and alienated most of the squad. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I notice you have omitted the Labour votes there - accidentally, I am sure. For reference, over a million people in Scotland voted Labour in the 2010 Westminster elections, yet we ended up with a Conservative-led coalition with the Lib Dems. That's what the "getting the government we vote for" argument is about. I suspect you already knew that though, Alan. Yeah Labour got close to a million but the debate is about voting patterns of those of a non-left persuasion. I don't get the argument where SNP supporters suddenly become Labour supporters after Westminster 2010 election. Now it's a Conservative/Lib Dem coalition and suddenly nationalists say it's unfair. It's a disingenous argument. You can't support 2 teams. I also think the SNP portrayal of a centre left party can be quite clouded. They believe in "neo-liberal" economics much like Conservatives and Lib Dems and also Labour. They want to cut corporation tax and have frozen council tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I notice you have omitted the Labour votes there - accidentally, I am sure. For reference, over a million people in Scotland voted Labour in the 2010 Westminster elections, yet we ended up with a Conservative-led coalition with the Lib Dems. That's what the "getting the government we vote for" argument is about. I suspect you already knew that though, Alan. Britain voted for, and got, the Conservative-led government that it voted for in 2010. Under proportional representation, Scotland would have a lot more SNP, Conservative and Lib Dem MPs. Scotland voted for, and got, the SNP government in Holyrood that it voted for in 2011. Even Donald Dewar's PR system could not stop that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 But the unpalatability of Conservative policies has to be regarded as to an extent responsible for Scotland's reputedly social democratic orientation. You therefore appear to be arguing that they have done well considering their failure to convince peope of the merits of a centre-right ideology. This is like arguing that Paolo Di Canio's record at Sunderland was quite good considering he bought poor players, is tactically naieve and alienated most of the squad. no i am arguing that they did well because there are so many bitter lefties in Scotland who cant see past the first page of there copy of socialist worker never mind the bigger picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 no i am arguing that they did well because there are so many bitter lefties in Scotland who cant see past the first page of there copy of socialist worker never mind the bigger picture Were that the case the Scottish Parliament would be rammed full of socialist MSPs. The total combined number of SSP and Solidarity MSPs = 0. C'mon Jaggy! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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