allyo Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I've generally been for it, and everything that goes with it. However, with St Mirren and Ross County looking most likely to oppose it, I'm wondering... It could be argued that (assuming we're promoted) we have more in common with these clubs than the rest of the SPL. "Smaller" clubs on relatively low debt levels. Therefore, if it's not good for them then maybe it's not good for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Any time we get told "It's this or nothing," then my gut feeling is not to go with it. Good on Ross County and St Mirren. I hope they stick to their guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Depends on how short term we think. In the shortest we should want it - as it means we get ten times more money for promotion than under the current system. In the slightly longer short term - actually we should want it too, as it would mean a better chance of survival in the top division. In the longer term, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck snort Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 As far as I can tell St Mirren and County support most of the measures such as revenue sharing, one league body, pyramid structure etc. It's just the 12-12-18 they're against. Heard Gilmour interviewed where he said he couldn't understand why they would be locked into the new structure for 3 years if it was obviously not working, while the County chairman has queried why we can't make the changes everyone supports and have further discussion on the league structure. Meanwhile, Doncaster continues with his take it or leave it stance. If it doesn't go through it must surely be the end for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 While next season if we are in the spl it won't make much difference but if we were to come straight back down and no restructure happens we will be back to square one. Beattie is all for reconstruction as the difference in money for top of first to lower spl is small meaning if we finished 2nd in the sfl under new money it would be worth 300,000 quid and which he stated would all be spend on team and youth development. So it would be massive for us a d like what has been said a I've I think Ross county and st mirren for all for redistribution of money and one league body but against the league set up. They think it's unfair to fans buying season tickets etc. county chairman said he liked 90% of what has been proposed. I don't know why this is trying to be pushed through so quickly surely further discussion over the summer then a vote early next season for the following year would be the right way to go. We could wrap up promotion on Tuesday and by the time the sfl vote we could find ourself taking part in a a laugh of a league structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Whatever happens the main things that have to change imo are these: 1) A fairer distribution of finances through the leagues. 2) Play offs introduced fom top league to 1st division as well as the 1 up/1 down. 3) Get rid of that stupid 11-1 voting system. The last one especially just now when the SPL clubs don't have Sevco there. They should be ganging up against Celtic to get what they want as regards voting. I saw someone quoted as saying the other day that there's a certain irony in the debt ridden SPL clubs telling the debt free Ross Co how to vote as they know better! Edited April 14, 2013 by Trotter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thistle_1876 Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 The thing i dont get about this new 12-12-18 is how would you actually win the first division? If after 22 games the top 4 merge with the bottom 4 of the SPL. Do they get the trophy then and the prizemoney for finishing first? or does the team that win the middle 8 win the first division? or does the highest place first division team in the middle 8 get it? which could therefore mean than you could win the league but because you came 5th in the middle 8 you don't get promoted. A complete shambles. If they aren't going to expand the league then i would actually take the current top flight set up with the fairer distribution of funds, and add a play off between 11th in SPL and 2nd in the First Division and one governing body. This 8-8-8 league is madness and can't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I've been listening to this getting discussed on various forums on the radio over the last couple of weeks. One recurring theme coming out from several chairmen, pundits and other so-called footballing experts is the fact that if the clubs don't vote for this in its entirety then football in this country will be facing imminent disaster. But, much like the arguments against Scottish independence, the facts are glaring by their absence. Any criticism of both St Mirren and Ross County have just conveniently ignored their objections. The St Mirren chair listed several points in a radio interview last weekend (scrapping the under 21 requirement, no change for three years, and the 8-8-8 split among others) but most of their arguments were just ignored when the pundits went on to discuss the issues. Someone on Radio Scotland went on air yesterday to say that he'd been given information which convinced him that the proposals had to go through but not a word on what that information was. I don't see why the clubs cannot make a list of the proposed changes, starting with the game changers and then working to the details and vote on them one by one. Or is there some ulterior motive behind pushing the package through complete? If there is I'd be tempted to vote against rather than walk blindly into something I don't fully understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Good news that this is almost dead in the water. It was a terrible idea. A fairer distribution of money at any cost is not the most important thing is Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I have to admit that I am not too clued up on the proposed changes to be honest. For the life of me I can't see why Doncaster et al insist that it must be all or nothing. Its almost as if these proposals were given on a tablet of stone, presumably to Doncaster. That being said I do realise the precarious position that clubs much like ourselves find ourselves in. In addition I remember only too well the implosion that followed our previous relegation and with the best will in the world realise that next year will be an almighty struggle. Therefore, I am very reluctantly minded to support the proposed changes as the best deal that is likely to become available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Whatever happens the main things that have to change imo are these: 1) A fairer distribution of finances through the leagues. 2) Play offs introduced fom top league to 1st division as well as the 1 up/1 down. 3) Get rid of that stupid 11-1 voting system. The last one especially just now when the SPL clubs don't have Sevco there. They should be ganging up against Celtic to get what they want as regards voting. I saw someone quoted as saying the other day that there's a certain irony in the debt ridden SPL clubs telling the debt free Ross Co how to vote as they know better! Think it was Aberdeen actually who snookered the proposed changes to the SPL voting system last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 All the stuff during the summer about financial armageddon and social unrest makes me sceptical about any proposed changes that are put forward described as 'necessary'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 All the stuff during the summer about financial armageddon and social unrest makes me sceptical about any proposed changes that are put forward described as 'necessary'. Surely this would be good for us. Plenty of players getting released to pick up and other spl teams not going to be as strong as they cut back & lose players to down south. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'm 100% for ALL the changes. Also, it hasn't been widely spread to the public, due to embarrasment, but the SPl don't have sponsors lined up. There is two sponsors and the offer is on condtion of the new set up. Hardly surprising considering how many more meaningful games there will be.. I would of thought jags fans after seeing the turn out vs queens and morton and about to come vs raith is proof that fans turn out when something is at stake. Make as many games meaningful and exciting as possible and more fans will come. If this doesn't go through I'd like to see Coutny and St Mirren chairmens faces when they see the new SPL sponsor is worth half it currently is. On a side note, somebody mentioned how does the distribution of wealth work in terms of winning the league etc. The graph for the money distribution was given not in leagues but in final positions throughout Scotland. So after the split, the team finishing 5th in the mini league will get what was reported we would get for winning the 1st div (400,000 or something). But the main point. SPL simply won't have a sponsor without this reconstruction. They will have to take whatever is offered and it will be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I'm 100% for ALL the changes. Also, it hasn't been widely spread to the public, due to embarrasment, but the SPl don't have sponsors lined up. There is two sponsors and the offer is on condtion of the new set up. Hardly surprising considering how many more meaningful games there will be.. I would of thought jags fans after seeing the turn out vs queens and morton and about to come vs raith is proof that fans turn out when something is at stake. Make as many games meaningful and exciting as possible and more fans will come. If this doesn't go through I'd like to see Coutny and St Mirren chairmens faces when they see the new SPL sponsor is worth half it currently is. On a side note, somebody mentioned how does the distribution of wealth work in terms of winning the league etc. The graph for the money distribution was given not in leagues but in final positions throughout Scotland. So after the split, the team finishing 5th in the mini league will get what was reported we would get for winning the 1st div (400,000 or something). But the main point. SPL simply won't have a sponsor without this reconstruction. They will have to take whatever is offered and it will be awful. So the sponsors should call the shots? What if the sponsor demands that all players wear capes at all times showing the name of their product, or that after every goal scored the players should lift up their product and run around the stadium with it? Ridiculous, I know. But the sponsors would do best to work with the fans (and that means paying attention to their views) rather than trying to impose their own wishes (a la Doncaster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Also, it hasn't been widely spread to the public.................................. If this doesn't go through I'd like to see Coutny and St Mirren chairmens faces when they see the new SPL sponsor is worth half it currently is. Wow you know this but the SPL Chairmen don't?? Aye right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H Wragg Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 FWIW, Thistle are for it. David Beattie said so on Radio Scotland before the Morton game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 So the sponsors should call the shots? What if the sponsor demands that all players wear capes at all times showing the name of their product, or that after every goal scored the players should lift up their product and run around the stadium with it? Ridiculous, I know. But the sponsors would do best to work with the fans (and that means paying attention to their views) rather than trying to impose their own wishes (a la Doncaster). Wow you know this but the SPL Chairmen don't?? Aye right! The SPL chairmen DO know of it. Hence why 10 of them are for it !!! St Mirren and County are obviously thinking less sponsorship isnt so important to them as long as they can stay in the SPL. Who do you think pays for scottish football? fans gate money alone? Selling a few pie and bovrils? TV money and Sponsorship is huge. The fact we would be 330 thousand pound better of (or in other terms HALF our entire wages) under the new system shows the strength that sponsorship money can bring. I'm sure the sponsors would love status quo. If it worked. But it doesnt. They need a return on their investment and as it stands the return isn't enough, therefore any money offered is lowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 FWIW, Thistle are for it. David Beattie said so on Radio Scotland before the Morton game. Of course we are. Extra £££s and a nice 22 game warm up for the new signings to knit together before the real stuff starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 On a side note, somebody mentioned how does the distribution of wealth work in terms of winning the league etc. The graph for the money distribution was given not in leagues but in final positions throughout Scotland. So after the split, the team finishing 5th in the mini league will get what was reported we would get for winning the 1st div (400,000 or something). I think what was asked was WHO would win the second tier of the league. Would it be the team who were top at the split or the team who came fifth in the mini league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 I think what was asked was WHO would win the second tier of the league. Would it be the team who were top at the split or the team who came fifth in the mini league? No one! In my view we would have a top teir of 24 teams and some of those teams wouldn't play each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 No one! In my view we would have a top teir of 24 teams and some of those teams wouldn't play each other. So, are you saying that the proposed structure is designed to ensure that just a few teams get to play more than one game a season against the old firm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) I think what was asked was WHO would win the second tier of the league. Would it be the team who were top at the split or the team who came fifth in the mini league? Top of the split would win the second tier. Top of first 8, top of second 8, top of third 8 and top of bottom 18 league would all get championship trophies. So four in total, as is just now. Which is a drawback, I admit. As it would see us realistically never winning a championship when getting promoted. One of the SPL teams will probably win the split. Edit: However, I guess not winning the championship would be the same as getting promoted through playoffs though. Which most people seem happy for. Edited April 14, 2013 by read'n'yell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 So, are you saying that the proposed structure is designed to ensure that just a few teams get to play more than one game a season against the old firm? No, all I am saying is that I don't believe it possible for anyone to win the 1st division. And because of that it's easier to look at the whole affair as one league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 (edited) Top of the split would win the second tier. Top of first 8, top of second 8, top of third 8 and top of bottom 18 league would all get championship trophies. So four in total, as is just now. No they wont! According to this the winners of the premiership will win a trophy and the winners of the championship will win a trophy. this seems to be after 22 games. There's a lot of people desperate to get this brought in but not a lot who know just what it entails! Edited April 14, 2013 by scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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