Spl Vote Defeated

[Jaggy1967]

Think everybody on here is missing the point Ross County & St Mirren haven't voted for the good of the game it's self interest. This vote if it had been successful would have benefited OUR CLUB by £500,000 this summer !!!! Hope everybody is happy

 

How do you work that out Stu ?

[potty trained]

Think everybody on here is missing the point Ross County & St Mirren haven't voted for the good of the game it's self interest. This vote if it had been successful would have benefited OUR CLUB by £500,000 this summer !!!! Hope everybody is happy

 

In what way would it have benefited us to the tune of £500k?

 

the prize money adjustment wouldn't have taken place until the end of next season... therefore if the vote had gone through, this would have been the worst season to get promoted.

[Mr Scruff]

A disaster if you ask me.

 

Scottish football is on its knees and a meaningful chance at reconstruction is voted down.

 

So we're stuck with the worst system possible. Poor stuff.

[potty trained]

A disaster if you ask me.

 

Scottish football is on its knees and a meaningful chance at reconstruction is voted down.

 

So we're stuck with the worst system possible. Poor stuff.

 

and the clubs were held to ransom. 12-12-18 is a shambles of a structure doomed to failure and teams were told the only way we will restructure the prize money is if you accept 12-12-18.

 

wealth distribuition and a play off to the spl are the 2 real issues here....

 

there is nothing to stop both these ideas being voted through right now.

[ian_mac]

Think everybody on here is missing the point Ross County & St Mirren haven't voted for the good of the game it's self interest. This vote if it had been successful would have benefited OUR CLUB by £500,000 this summer !!!! Hope everybody is happy

The fairer distribution is all well and good, I don't think anybody is complaining about that.

 

The problem is the league structure the whole "back to 0 points" thing half way through the season. The SPL should have learned during the summer that they can no longer bully people in to accepting their half baked proposals.

 

The time is now right for the SPL to be totally disbanded. It's been nothing but a blood sucking vulture to Scottish Football for the last 15 years.

[peagreenboy]

A disaster if you ask me.

 

Scottish football is on its knees and a meaningful chance at reconstruction is voted down.

 

So we're stuck with the worst system possible. Poor stuff.

 

It was more like asking a dying man whether he wants to get kicked in the nuts or punched in the face. And when he asks if he can have any medication which might help him get better, the doctor yells "THERE IS NO PLAN B!!"

[potty trained]

The fairer distribution is all well and good, I don't think anybody is complaining about that.

 

The problem is the league structure the whole "back to 0 points" thing half way through the season. The SPL should have learned during the summer that they can no longer bully people in to accepting their half baked proposals.

 

The time is now right for the SPL to be totally disbanded. It's been nothing but a blood sucking vulture to Scottish Football for the last 15 years.

 

Don't forget the 2 fat fingers being stuck up to the bottom 18 teams, basically told that you mean nothing to scottish football and you can fester in a larger league with next to nothing to play for.

 

 

Ironically the big wigs say it's ok to have a bottom league of 18 playing only for promotion...

 

but a top league of 18 playing for the championship, europe, play offs and relegation... for some reason that wouldn't work?

[Jaggernaut]

Don't forget the 2 fat fingers being stuck up to the bottom 18 teams, basically told that you mean nothing to scottish football and you can fester in a larger league with next to nothing to play for.

 

 

Ironically the big wigs say it's ok to have a bottom league of 18 playing only for promotion...

 

but a top league of 18 playing for the championship, europe, play offs and relegation... for some reason that wouldn't work?

 

Good points. There might even be something to be said for exploring a revived pre-season Anglo-Scottish Cup for say the next 4 teams of each league ending outside the European places in the Premiership and the SPL. That would give further incentive and interest. Not sure whether English teams would be interested, though.

[Willjag]

Think everybody on here is missing the point Ross County & St Mirren haven't voted for the good of the game it's self interest. This vote if it had been successful would have benefited OUR CLUB by £500,000 this summer !!!! Hope everybody is happy

It's a long term solution the whole of Scottish football needs Stu. If this had gone through, no doubt in 3 or 4 years time we'd be looking to change it again. Ever since the game in Scotland changed from two leagues, which it was for donkey's, and then other than the first 4 or 5 seasons of the top 10, we've had calls for the league setup to be changed. That must be between 20 and 30 years now and it's only getting worse.

Part time football is slowly starting to creep it's way up from the bottom divisions with some of this season's 1st division sides having part-timers in their squad (Even us apparently!). The Club's in the SPL are shelling out too much cash trying to maintain their position at the top table. If the SPL was a little bigger, some of these Clubs may have a little breathing space and wont be so inclined to pay top dollar for mediocre players, cutting costs, which in turn would allow them to make match pricing more attractive to the paying public and hopefully start to attract the punters back to the game and with a more relaxed style of play, better football.

 

The 70's top division had 18 teams in it and the majority were part-timers. I don't see why we shouldn't have at least 16 teams in the top league.

[Jaggernaut]

 

 

The 70's top division had 18 teams in it and the majority were part-timers. I don't see why we shouldn't have at least 16 teams in the top league.

 

I remember reading that 16 was UEFA's preferred size for all domestic top leagues.

[Willjag]

I think I'm right in saying since reconstruction in the 70's, it's the only league size we haven't tried in Scotland!

 

Edited to add, I always thought that the 14 team divisions we had a few years back were great and were always competitive.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Willjag

[ian_mac]

Don't forget the 2 fat fingers being stuck up to the bottom 18 teams, basically told that you mean nothing to scottish football and you can fester in a larger league with next to nothing to play for.

 

 

Ironically the big wigs say it's ok to have a bottom league of 18 playing only for promotion...

 

but a top league of 18 playing for the championship, europe, play offs and relegation... for some reason that wouldn't work?

 

Yeah totally agree. We are constantly told that a bigger league wouldn't work but I'm yet to see any real evidence to the contrary.

 

The whole "too many meaningless games" thing is total bollocks. The 3 leagues considered to be the best in Europe, English Premier League, Bundesliga, La Liga. All have 18 teams or above.

 

Folk saying we don't have 16 good enough teams to compete - again highly debatable. Let's take the 12 SPL teams currently. Add in PTFC, Morton, Dunfermline and Falkirk. You then have teams like Livingston, Raith and Hamilton all fighting to get in there as well.

[Jaggernaut]

If they really believe that re-setting teams' points to zero half-way through the season will lead to more exciting fixtures, then why not go the whole way and re-set every teams' points to zero every Friday evening before the matches at the weekend? That way nobody will know who's going to end up champions and who'll get relegated. How those would actually be decided is up for debate.

[Thistle_1876]

Never mind the fact that potentially there could be no relegation or promotion every season if the teams from 9-12 were the top 4 in the middle 8 every season. Not likely but still a possibility.

[Mr Bunny]

Stewart Milne cannot be serious, as he was responsible for shafting any changes to the current SPL voting structure. To be fair there are no heroes nor villains in this story, I trust Stewart Gilmour about as far as I could fling Charles Green!

 

But you could use one of these: http://www.naturecoast.com/hobby/ma817.htm

[Mr Scruff]

and the clubs were held to ransom. 12-12-18 is a shambles of a structure doomed to failure and teams were told the only way we will restructure the prize money is if you accept 12-12-18.

 

wealth distribuition and a play off to the spl are the 2 real issues here....

 

there is nothing to stop both these ideas being voted through right now.

I don't see how the clubs were held to ransom. Several of them had worked over a long period to develop this (imperfect) solution. There is no 'perfect' solution, but this one went an awful long way in the right direction. Yes, this was a binary choice, but that had been developed with alternatives.

 

This is now ultimately a vote in favour of the current set up, which I think is on its knees. Other sports have had to radically restructure in the face of existential challenges. We've now lost that opportunity, and have people celebrating the continuation of a failed status quo.

 

The only chink of light I can see is that it may get so bad in the next couple of years (as if it isn't already) that we may be forced into change, but I suspect that conservative football thinking will remain entirely resistant to change.

[briogadh]

It's a long term solution the whole of Scottish football needs Stu. If this had gone through, no doubt in 3 or 4 years time we'd be looking to change it again. Ever since the game in Scotland changed from two leagues, which it was for donkey's, and then other than the first 4 or 5 seasons of the top 10, we've had calls for the league setup to be changed. That must be between 20 and 30 years now and it's only getting worse.

Part time football is slowly starting to creep it's way up from the bottom divisions with some of this season's 1st division sides having part-timers in their squad (Even us apparently!). The Club's in the SPL are shelling out too much cash trying to maintain their position at the top table. If the SPL was a little bigger, some of these Clubs may have a little breathing space and wont be so inclined to pay top dollar for mediocre players, cutting costs, which in turn would allow them to make match pricing more attractive to the paying public and hopefully start to attract the punters back to the game and with a more relaxed style of play, better football.

 

The 70's top division had 18 teams in it and the majority were part-timers. I don't see why we shouldn't have at least 16 teams in the top league.

Ironically, the very first season when the old two division set-up was abandoned ( 1975-76) Jags won the new "First Division" of 14 clubs for the first time Playing each home and away meant.only 26 matches played, which left an embarrassing gap - to be filled by the Spring Cup of unlamented memory. So from the start things were badly thought out. The new Top Ten thought they had reached the Promised Financial Land.and really couldn't have cared less about the rest. The argument seemed to be that it would result in Scotland becoming far more competitive in European competition, quite ignoring the fact that we were already punching far above our weight in the old system. ( 3 European finals and several semis even involving the likes of Dunfermline and Kilmarnock! ) Bertie Auld's team of mainly part-timers went on to survive relatively comfortably in the Premier division .for six seasons. By the time we got back, the system was on the verge of being changed yet again "for the good of the game". No wonder we are cynical as fans.

[peagreenboy]

But hopefully this rejection will mean the tossers at the top will resign (finally), and new plans can be introduced - without this "no plan B" nonsense.

[Mr Scruff]

But hopefully this rejection will mean the tossers at the top will resign (finally), and new plans can be introduced - without this "no plan B" nonsense.

I don't see that. Who in their right mind would spend the effort trying to reform our game now. Poisoned chalice.

 

I am no fan of the 'suits' currently inhabiting the top levels of our game, but I thought for once this was a positive agenda for comprehensive change - a once in a generation opportunity. Sadly, I fear it has gone. Would be glad to be proved wrong, all the same, but this will be a cautionary tale. to be clear, I think we need radical change, and not just the introduction of eg an extra playoff spot.

[stuthejag]

Pretty sure I heard the bonus money would rise immediately on Radio Scotland benefiting this years 1st Division champions by £500,000. The arguments by Ross County and St Mirren seem to boil down to their fans not wanting to buy seasons tickets and not knowing who they will be playing etc, but this is what happens in the SPL just now !!

[briogadh]

Ironically, the very first season when the old two division set-up was abandoned ( 1975-76) Jags won the new "First Division" of 14 clubs for the first time Playing each home and away meant.only 26 matches played, which left an embarrassing gap - to be filled by the Spring Cup of unlamented memory. So from the start things were badly thought out. The new Top Ten thought they had reached the Promised Financial Land.and really couldn't have cared less about the rest. The argument seemed to be that it would result in Scotland becoming far more competitive in European competition, quite ignoring the fact that we were already punching far above our weight in the old system. ( 3 European finals and several semis even involving the likes of Dunfermline and Kilmarnock! ) Bertie Auld's team of mainly part-timers went on to survive relatively comfortably in the Premier division .for six seasons. By the time we got back, the system was on the verge of being changed yet again "for the good of the game". No wonder we are cynical as fans.

FIVE Euro Finals actually and forgot Dundee( Euro Cup semi) !

[1971jag]

Problem: 14-14-14 doesn't give 4 OF games a year.

 

Solution? 14-14-14 with the re-introduction of the Glasgow Cup? (of course, that would only give the chance of a 4th meeting)

Edited April 15, 2013 by 1971jag

[Mr Scruff]

Ironically, the very first season when the old two division set-up was abandoned ( 1975-76) Jags won the new "First Division" of 14 clubs for the first time Playing each home and away meant.only 26 matches played, which left an embarrassing gap - to be filled by the Spring Cup of unlamented memory. So from the start things were badly thought out. The new Top Ten thought they had reached the Promised Financial Land.and really couldn't have cared less about the rest. The argument seemed to be that it would result in Scotland becoming far more competitive in European competition, quite ignoring the fact that we were already punching far above our weight in the old system. ( 3 European finals and several semis even involving the likes of Dunfermline and Kilmarnock! ) Bertie Auld's team of mainly part-timers went on to survive relatively comfortably in the Premier division .for six seasons. By the time we got back, the system was on the verge of being changed yet again "for the good of the game". No wonder we are cynical as fans.

But the world has changed beyond recognition during the last 40 years, particularly how we watch football, support our teams and the economics behind the game. We have to adapt with it.

 

I don't think it's enough to follow the practices of the 1960s & 1970s in the hope that it will revive our fortunes of that time.

[read'n'yell]

A larger top league isn't possible as the teams left in the second tier would not be strong enough. A 16 team league for example would leave mainly part time leagues in the second tier (a mixture of current bottom half of sfl1 and top half of sfl2). Relegation to the second tier would have damaging effects for clubs as there would simply be no money in it. Having only one full time league isn't good for scottish football.

 

As I said, we need to strengthen the second tier (which 12 12 18 does) before expanding the top flight.

 

People's fear of change and negativity towards change is holding the country back. Need to look at the bigger picture and not get caught up in smaller points. Nothing will ever be completely correct, that's not how anything works.

 

Really disappointed today. What I don't understand is we are one of about 6 or 7 clubs that benefit most from these changes in a financial sense. Also when we end up back in the first and desperate for promotion out a league that's almost impossible to do. Look how good Morton have done, and no reward. It really was all or nothing today and scottish football (or more accurately two people) have chosen nothing.

[uberteeb]

I don't see how the clubs were held to ransom. Several of them had worked over a long period to develop this (imperfect) solution. There is no 'perfect' solution, but this one went an awful long way in the right direction. Yes, this was a binary choice, but that had been developed with alternatives.

 

This is now ultimately a vote in favour of the current set up, which I think is on its knees. Other sports have had to radically restructure in the face of existential challenges. We've now lost that opportunity, and have people celebrating the continuation of a failed status quo.

 

The only chink of light I can see is that it may get so bad in the next couple of years (as if it isn't already) that we may be forced into change, but I suspect that conservative football thinking will remain entirely resistant to change.

I don't see that. Who in their right mind would spend the effort trying to reform our game now. Poisoned chalice.

 

I am no fan of the 'suits' currently inhabiting the top levels of our game, but I thought for once this was a positive agenda for comprehensive change - a once in a generation opportunity. Sadly, I fear it has gone. Would be glad to be proved wrong, all the same, but this will be a cautionary tale. to be clear, I think we need radical change, and not just the introduction of eg an extra playoff spot.

 

Why is that the case?

 

Have another meeting over the summer with only the 11-1 voting structure on the table, vote it out.

 

Have another meeting after that one with only financial distribution on the table, vote it through.

 

Have another meeting unifying all 3 bodies into 1, vote it through.

 

Have another meeting after that one with an SPL/SFL1 play off on the table, vote it through. Alternatively have a meeting about bigger leagues and vote it through.

 

Why is this not possible, why was it all packaged together?