peagreenboy Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't see that. Who in their right mind would spend the effort trying to reform our game now. Poisoned chalice. No, I think change is still inevitable. Football and football clubs will still go on and everyone - not least the fans - want change. Whether or not what comes next will be better or worse than these rejected plans remains of course to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Have another meeting after that one with only financial distribution on the table, vote it through. Why, will Milne have changed his mind by then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I don't see how the clubs were held to ransom. Several of them had worked over a long period to develop this (imperfect) solution. There is no 'perfect' solution, but this one went an awful long way in the right direction. Yes, this was a binary choice, but that had been developed with alternatives. This is now ultimately a vote in favour of the current set up, which I think is on its knees. Other sports have had to radically restructure in the face of existential challenges. We've now lost that opportunity, and have people celebrating the continuation of a failed status quo. The only chink of light I can see is that it may get so bad in the next couple of years (as if it isn't already) that we may be forced into change, but I suspect that conservative football thinking will remain entirely resistant to change. As a club being managed financially to live within it's means, then this can only be a good thing to us... whilst all the teams drastically cut back to save themselves from death, we come in and win all the cups. SIMPLES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Why is that the case? Have another meeting over the summer with only the 11-1 voting structure on the table, vote it out. Have another meeting after that one with only financial distribution on the table, vote it through. Have another meeting unifying all 3 bodies into 1, vote it through. Have another meeting after that one with an SPL/SFL1 play off on the table, vote it through. Alternatively have a meeting about bigger leagues and vote it through. Why is this not possible, why was it all packaged together? Practicality. It's in the nature of negotiation and compromise. It's also about the interlinked nature of several of these issues. But we could argue about that all day. In the end, a long term review was being concluded today, and that vote was in favour of the status quo. Which is the worst outcome for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 A larger top league isn't possible as the teams left in the second tier would not be strong enough. A 16 team league for example would leave mainly part time leagues in the second tier (a mixture of current bottom half of sfl1 and top half of sfl2). Relegation to the second tier would have damaging effects for clubs as there would simply be no money in it. Having only one full time league isn't good for scottish football. As I said, we need to strengthen the second tier (which 12 12 18 does) before expanding the top flight. People's fear of change and negativity towards change is holding the country back. Need to look at the bigger picture and not get caught up in smaller points. Nothing will ever be completely correct, that's not how anything works. Really disappointed today. What I don't understand is we are one of about 6 or 7 clubs that benefit most from these changes in a financial sense. Also when we end up back in the first and desperate for promotion out a league that's almost impossible to do. Look how good Morton have done, and no reward. It really was all or nothing today and scottish football (or more accurately two people) have chosen nothing. What does our club benefitting financially matter to us? What do we do with this extra money, waste it all on rubbish players like other SPL clubs? We broke even this season, we have the best team in my lifetime of young hungry players who love playing for us. We have an atmosphere back in the stadium that has been missing since the old shed was knocked down. Things are absolutely fine at Thistle, things can be fine at other teams. Another x amount on our balance sheet means virtually nothing to me. My concerns are with the size of the league, play-offs, competitiveness and fairness. This is all a bit like the Scottish Independence debate, the SPL are just peddling half truths, misinformation and scare stories to make people believe this crap is the only way forward. It isn't. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted April 15, 2013 Members Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Ironically, the very first season when the old two division set-up was abandoned ( 1975-76) Jags won the new "First Division" of 14 clubs for the first time Playing each home and away meant.only 26 matches played, which left an embarrassing gap - to be filled by the Spring Cup of unlamented memory. I was thinking more of the 14 team set-up when the teams played each other 3 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Why, will Milne have changed his mind by then? Their own fans and the fans of the majority of Scottish football can put pressure on him, it worked with the Sevco debacle, fan power can work, football is ours not theirs, it belongs to the fans not accountants and cockwombles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 What does our club benefitting financially matter to us? What do we do with this extra money, waste it all on rubbish players like other SPL clubs? We broke even this season, we have the best team in my lifetime of young hungry players who love playing for us. We have an atmosphere back in the stadium that has been missing since the old shed was knocked down. Things are absolutely fine at Thistle, things can be fine at other teams. Another x amount on our balance sheet means virtually nothing to me. My concerns are with the size of the league, play-offs, competitiveness and fairness. This is all a bit like the Scottish Independence debate, the SPL are just peddling half truths, misinformation and scare stories to make people believe this crap is the only way forward. It isn't. Yes we have had an amazing season. Yes we are now breaking even (due to bumper crowds). Things at us are perfect. Just now. We have lingered for years in the non-entity of lower scottish divisions. Don't forget that. Our time in the SPL may not be brilliant, it may be one season, we may get beat every week like Dundee. The crowds, the atmosphere, the finances, the leagues won't seem so good then. Also, maybe you could ask Beattie if an extra £400,000 would be of any use. Again, its short sighted opinions that are holding us back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Yes we have had an amazing season. Yes we are now breaking even (due to bumper crowds). Things at us are perfect. Just now. We have lingered for years in the non-entity of lower scottish divisions. Don't forget that. Our time in the SPL may not be brilliant, it may be one season, we may get beat every week like Dundee. The crowds, the atmosphere, the finances, the leagues won't seem so good then. Also, maybe you could ask Beattie if an extra £400,000 would be of any use. Again, its short sighted opinions that are holding us back. an extra 400k??? where you pulling this from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 an extra 400k??? where you pulling this from? Figures released by the SFA. It gave the current levels of finance handed out at the end of each season and the levels under new plans. Top of 1st division (team finishing in 13th top position in scotland) would benefit by 400,000. Obviously this wouldnt come into effect until next season. But shows the differences to 2nd tier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Richard Gordon on twitter says St Mirren and Ross County could have voted through the changes including the 11-1 voting farce and then reviewed league reconstruction for next season. Quite unhappy with these 2 smaller clubs who were in our and Morton/Dunfermline/Falkirk etc position not so long ago. I was willing to give the 12-12-18 league a go. Looked interesting and had potential if nothing else. At the very least they should have pushed everything else through and then got the ball and momentum rolling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) This vote if it had been successful would have benefited OUR CLUB by £500,000 this summer !!!! What on earth is this tosh? Any sentence with a line of exclamation marks can always be discounted as nonsense. Edited April 15, 2013 by One t in Scotland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Figures released by the SFA. It gave the current levels of finance handed out at the end of each season and the levels under new plans. Top of 1st division (team finishing in 13th top position in scotland) would benefit by 400,000. Obviously this wouldnt come into effect until next season. But shows the differences to 2nd tier So we would not get the £400k this year so Beattie would not get the cash anyway. Does the defeat of this proposal mean more cash for SPL clubs, hopefully us, next season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Figures released by the SFA. It gave the current levels of finance handed out at the end of each season and the levels under new plans. Top of 1st division (team finishing in 13th top position in scotland) would benefit by 400,000. Obviously this wouldnt come into effect until next season. But shows the differences to 2nd tier so remind me how we would have benefited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I am utterly at a loss to see why how the 2nd league could have worked. The top 8 fine for them continue your season playing your league in a similar fashion to the way it is now to the top 6 but getting 2 games each. The second league of 8 all teams start on 0 points ! So you could be 20 points ahead of last place in the spl and have to start again. Really ? What an utter farce that would have been. Where would the bottom 6 in the 1st division start in the 18 team league. Would everyone have started on 0 points there as well ? Apologies if I am missing something but if not this would have been a disaster and made our league really look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Richard Gordon on twitter says St Mirren and Ross County could have voted through the changes including the 11-1 voting farce and then reviewed league reconstruction for next season. Quite unhappy with these 2 smaller clubs who were in our and Morton/Dunfermline/Falkirk etc position not so long ago. I was willing to give the 12-12-18 league a go. Looked interesting and had potential if nothing else. At the very least they should have pushed everything else through and then got the ball and momentum rolling. Aye, they were asked to vote on changing it to 9/3 instead of 11/1.... and then vote on restructuring so that the 12-12-18 could be passed with 10 votes to 2... what a fckin ridiculous idea! good on them for saying no. Edited April 15, 2013 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 It had some good points like the single association but 2 things wrong with Scottish football are the 12-1 voting in the SPL and the league sizes are this fixed neither. They can come up with better than this rubbish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 The promised land they would have you believe. Not ! http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/201526-spl-reconstruction-plans-identical-to-really-boring-austrian-experiment/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) The promised land they would have you believe. Not ! http://sport.stv.tv/...ian-experiment/ Their solution - a 10 team league. For me, that's part of what needs changing, but clearly many do support it... Edited April 15, 2013 by Mr Scruff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Paul Paton @PaulPaton43h Well done St Mirren and Ross County. Fans don't want 12-12-18!! ⚽ #SPL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) They're solution - a 10 team league. For me, that's part of what needs changing, but clearly many do support it... I do not like it anymore than anyone else and not sticking up for just cos we have one foot in the door. The 14 or 16 team league's does not get a look in by the SPL clubs as it is financially not viable. But then neither is what they have and looking at S. Milne's face it is bleak so why not try something radically different and give the fans what they want after all they are the one's who are the paying customer are they not ? As for Sky money, I have found it strange how they have kept throwing money at Scottish football when there is so little to play for most of the time. Edited April 15, 2013 by Jaggy1967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) Charlie Green seen at last St Mirren home game. St Mirren vote against league reconstruction. Doncaster now says SPHell 2 is now back on the agenda. Cue invite to Sevco 5088/Scotland into the 2nd tier?. I am not for or against the proposals but being the cynical ******* that I am I cant help seeing a Sevco involvement here!! Who says Scottish football aint corrupt!! Edited to add.....just watched Scotland Today with the only comment coming from one club...Sevco. Guess what, they are backing Ross Co and St Mirren......whole thing stinks! Edited April 15, 2013 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 So we would not get the £400k this year so Beattie would not get the cash anyway. Does the defeat of this proposal mean more cash for SPL clubs, hopefully us, next season? I guess so yes. Assuming they get a sponsor to pay what the current one does. Although the money going to first division teams was almost entirely from the top four places in the SPL so assuming we don't end up in the top four then it won't affect us next year. I think if we ended up in the bottom 3 or 4 in the SPL we would also end up with a higher payment than current. so remind me how we would have benefited? Everything wrong with scottish football and league reconstruction is summarized by your one sentence. Short sighted. What happens when we inevitably end up back in division one. Your "doing a County". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Graham spiers just raised prospect of 10-10 SPL.... They couldn't do it to us, could they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Neil Doncaster does an amazing impression of a snake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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