The City End

[Jaggernaut]

In a recent interview David Beattie alluded to planning permission for a city-end development that would included a 300-seat stand. This plan is clearly ludicrous and should be thrown out. Firhill is currently not fit for purpose, as the controversy over trying to find places to put around 2,500-3,000 visiting supporters of another team shows. The plan for the city end of the ground was drawn up when it looked as if Thistle was destined to remain a lower-league team for many years to come. Last season's success showed that the ground, especially the main stand, is barely adequate for what might well be our future needs, and a daft wee 300-seat stand tagged onto a development which is nothing to do with football will make the stadium not only look particularly stupid, but reduce its fitness for purpose even further.

 

I know some people would prefer a covered terraced area, which I reckon would need to accommodate 1,000 or so people (with toilet and catering facilities). My own preference would be a stand similar to the north end one, but I really feel that the club should be looking urgently at developing the city end as an integral part of a modern stadium, while also getting plans to replace the (formerly) excellent main stand with something that will be useful and useable for all purposes in the future.

[Norgethistle]

The ground holds in excess of 10000 in its current state, we will fill that 2 or 3 times next season, spending any money on a stand we will only open 2 games a season is ludicrous

 

Building a new City end stand and a new main stand will cost us between £3 & £5 million, we have just started trading at a profit the interest and repayment cost on that alone will have us trading at a deficit.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Norgethistle

[Jaggernaut]

Every time the main stand has to be used there is an issue, and it has been said that it is increasingly expensive to keep it "alive" year after year. It's basically on a life-support system. The internal architechture is a nightmare, with the steps meeting no modern guidelines and the toilet facilities are truly from a century ago. Do you propose to leave the ground in its current condition for ever more? A truly dilapidated old stand that gets partly used until it truly can no longer take it and a 300-seater stand (who would use it) at the city end as the alternative accommodation? There goes your 10,000+ capacity in one fell swoop.

 

If Thistle played their cards well they might even get a city-end stand with other facilities incorporated largely paid for through sponsorship. It doesn't have to be the case that most of the land goes for housing, leaving no real space for a decent-sized stand. Nor am I saying that we need to build both stands at once. But I do think that a decent, affordable city-end structure should now becoming a priority.

[potty trained]

I don't think I've ever seen so many sweeping generalisations and mis truths as I have on this thread.

 

It seems beattie's scare tactics are working.

 

Incidentally, how does the main stand get a safety certificate every year, if its such a hazard as its alluded to being?

[Trotter]

I don't think I've ever seen so many sweeping generalisations and mis truths as I have on this thread.

 

It seems beattie's scare tactics are working.

 

Incidentally, how does the main stand get a safety certificate every year, if its such a hazard as its alluded to being?

 

I was up at Firhill the other day & I guess the answer to the question is that the work that's happening on it means they are spending money on bringing it up to scratch to obtain a safety certificate.

 

Someone more qualified than me would probably able to tell you that the conditions for a safety certificate probably change year on year depending on volume of use?!

 

Propco (though I'm not entirely a fan as there is a big time conflict of interests) has enabled the club to write off a large part of its debt whereas its buyers are left with something that is going to be stagnant in current financial climate & may struggle to obtain planning permission for what they want when they are eventually able to use it.

 

Firhill is not the same Firhill I grew up with. The North end, The Bing, floodlights & JHS mean it looks a different ground altogether.Even the pitch is different- levelled out etc.

 

Sure it's still Firhill & the facade of the Main stand same but aside from that...

 

Maybe it's time to accept that Firhill will only be a football ground for next few years until markets pick up.

 

The land surrounding it much more valuable to property dvelopers as flats, houses, hotel or whatever than it is a football ground.

 

So long as PTFC survive, albeit in a shiny new custom built stadium, then surely that's all that matters.

 

Football club chairmen/directors are mainly businessmen these days & so long as Beattie et al don't turn out to be a David Murray(which I'd very much doubt) then I'm willing to accept their decisions.

 

Slightly off topic I know but I guess why spend money in current climate on something that will rarely be used when long term plan is for something completely different?

 

That said, still thnk it should be tidied!!!

Edited July 4, 2013 by Trotter

[Mr Bunny]

I was up at Firhill the other day & I guess the answer to the question is that the work that's happening on it means they are spending money on infringing it up to scratch to obtain a safety certificate.

 

 

 

Eh!? What do you mean here? Were you trying ot say we are deliberately breaking rules and covering it up with a lick of paint or something? That doesn't make sense.

 

The only statement I've read on this (how reliable I don't know) is supposedly that police are saying that there might be a danger from flares being set off. I assume the normal safety certificate doesn't ask for protection against idiots setting off incendiary devices inside the stand.

 

Since I've mentioned it why should this be a reason for making us change stands with the 'tic supporters? Surely if they're going to carry flares and set them off in whatever stand they're in there could be a danger to both sets of fans if they are put in the JHS or North stand?

 

Police should be making sure they are searched beforehand - and make this announcement they will prosecute anyone carrying or setting off flares as it is a public safety issue. Stopping 'tic fans from using the old main stand doesn't solve the safety issue, just one part of it.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Mr Bunny

[Trotter]

 

 

 

Eh!? What do you mean here? Were you trying ot say we are deliberately breaking rules and covering it up with a lick of paint or something? That doesn't make sense.

 

The only statement I've read on this (how reliable I don't know) is supposedly that police are saying that there might be a danger from flares being set off. I assume the normal safety certificate doesn't ask for protection against idiots setting off incendiary devices inside the stand.

 

Since I've mentioned it why should this be a reason for making us change stands with the 'tic supporters? Surely if they're going to carry flares and set them off in whatever stand they're in there could be a danger to both sets of fans if they are put in the JHS or North stand?

 

Police should be making sure they are searched beforehand - and make this announcement they will prosecute anyone carrying or setting off flares as it is a public safety issue. Stopping 'tic fans from using the old main stand doesn't solve the safety issue, just one part of it.

 

Predictive text, fixed it now!

 

I agree with you about the Sellick fans thing. i think the whole thing a good PR exercise in terms of us blaming their fans for having to give up North Stand where the real truth is something different.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

What is it with The Main Stand? It looks poor from the outside, it has not architectural merit, it looks shabby, inside is badly shaped and again not the best looking, the view is restricted with poles in the way. I'd rather a multi-purpose revenue generating stand was in it's place. In terms of building a stand to make the City end look better I'd rather our money paid the debt off and invested in the players and youth to invest in the club instead of another stand that won't be filled.

[Willjag]

Personally, I think the ground would be sold without a second thought if the Club and Propco could get a decent offer. It'd have to be in similar circumstances to the St Mirren deal though, with a new ground in place coming as part of the deal.

[Jaggernaut]

Personally, I think the ground would be sold without a second thought if the Club and Propco could get a decent offer. It'd have to be in similar circumstances to the St Mirren deal though, with a new ground in place coming as part of the deal.

 

"Oh Yo-oker is wonderful...." doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

[Charlie Endell]

What is it with The Main Stand? It looks poor from the outside, it has not architectural merit, it looks shabby, inside is badly shaped and again not the best looking, the view is restricted with poles in the way. I'd rather a multi-purpose revenue generating stand was in it's place. In terms of building a stand to make the City end look better I'd rather our money paid the debt off and invested in the players and youth to invest in the club instead of another stand that won't be filled.

I totally disagree that the Main Stand looks poor from the outside - ok, it's no Charles Rennie Mackintosh but at least it retains some character. I used to sit in there in preference to the JHS - the only downside for me was the lack of running water in the karzis.

 

The City End is now The Shitty End.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Charlie Endell

[billko]

Personally, I think the ground would be sold without a second thought if the Club and Propco could get a decent offer. It'd have to be in similar circumstances to the St Mirren deal though, with a new ground in place coming as part of the deal.

This would set off another debate if Firhill was sold but St Mirren done really well out of the deal they got.

They also have Ralston which is Youth Development Center and one of the best in the country and they own it outright.

St Mirren should reap the rewards in later years of having such a good training complex for the Youth sides and will make the club a very attractive place for the best youth players to go to.

Would love the Jags to have something similar but don't know if that's a route they will want to go down or just redevelop Firhill.

[Garscube Road End]

"Oh Yo-oker is wonderful...." doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

 

We couldnt compete with Yoker Athletic!

[peagreenboy]

Would it not be so difficult to redevelop Firhill as to make it infeasible?

 

Not much can really be built on the City End land due to the electricity generator permanently situated there - isn't that why the previous ideas were not given planning permission? Unless money can be made from flats etc., the owners won't want to do anything with it.

 

The Main Stand has a listed façade, so to internally redevelop it all, removing the beams etc., would I imagine to be prohibitively expensive.

 

With the Student flats at the North End not much more development could be made there.

 

Getting a deal like St Mirren would be great, but I can't see how anyone would be interested considering the amount of issues with that particular piece of land. Where could we go in the near neighbourhood that wouldn't be incredibly expensive land to buy? Could a new stadium be built on the other side of the canal? Maybe we could get some of that land down by the Clyde where the new Transport Museum is, before the whole area is redeveloped.

[paralytic thistle]

I did not know the Main Stand has a listed facade, are you sure about that?

[Willjag]

Yep, I'd find it incredible if the Main Stand was listed. What investor in their right mind would invest in something like that? I cant see the Propco guys buying that and not being able to do anything with it.

[Trotter]

I'm sure the the Main Stand not listed.

 

Was this not discussed around the time of PropCo being founded?

[peagreenboy]

Jeez, where did I get that from then? I thought for sure it was listed. Must have dreamt it. Nevermind!

[German Jag]

Jeez, where did I get that from then? I thought for sure it was listed. Must have dreamt it. Nevermind!

 

Thinking of Ibrox...

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

At a cost of £60,000 Thistle had a stand built to last. There were six thousand seats including a modern innovation, 1,150 with tip-up chairs in the centre and there were seventy-five seats especially reserved for directors and their friends (this showed confidence, for directors only have friends when the team is winning). There were also seventy-five seats for reporters since Glasgow had a proper number of newspapers in those days.

The club was proud enough to put out a brochure for the technically minded: "The stand is built with steel framing, the front column next to Firhill Street is encased in brickwork, the ground floor is faced with red pressed facing brick and the upper part coated in roughcast cement. The flooring for seating is 2 in. thick, supported on reinforced concrete slabs fixed to steel raking beams every six feet.

The contour of the seating is such that every spectator has an uninterrupted view of every part of the playing pitch. The team rooms are commodious and have everything necessary for an up-to-date club. The office suite consists of directors' room, secretary's office and waiting room with tea and billiards room as adjuncts. A main corridor runs along the first floor where there are five ladies' rooms."

It has hardly changed to this day, apart from some cosmetic improvements and the introduction of a sauna, for freshening players and soothing directors. It was-and still is-simply the best place in Glasgow, Scotland or, some would say, the world to watch football.

(Ian Archer – The Centenary History of Partick Thistle Football Club: Molindinar Press 1976)

constructed of wood ? .... What's that nasty smell?

The fact that the so called "Prop-co", actual name Firhill Developments Ltd. (and formerly Dalglen Ltd), of 11/12 newton terrace, Glasgow, ( Directors : Tom Hughes, Billy Allan, David Beatie, Ian Dodd, Allan Lobban, Gavin Stewart.. and others? ) do not seem to envisage any potential return on the excellant main stand from modernisation and upgrading its original purpose and features into an enviable commercial asset for both club and investors and appear to prefer the route of "flats, office, retail & business space", is extremely depressing to me. As we join the top flight, i'd have hoped a little more consideration would have been put into what assests the club have at their disposal and how they can be exploited to promote "the brand" to a wider "client base".

It's easy to criticise when it aint one's own money on the table. However, to me it seems to be a short term, quick, copy-cat, unimaginative project with little if any empathy for the potential of Partick Thistle F.C.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

I know much of the structure contains wooden parts. I know the flooring is wood. I understand this will have fire and safety implications.

 

However it is not a wooden stand.

Edited July 4, 2013 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[Juan Kerr]

Not much can really be built on the City End land due to the electricity generator permanently situated there - isn't that why the previous ideas were not given planning permission?

 

That's an electricity sub-station. I've never been in it but from what I can see in passing there are a pair of 33/11KV transformers and probably an 11KV switch-board and some protection systems in the howf. As part of any development it could be moved/altered, perhaps even housed inside whatever was proposed, but probably at some cost. The relevant power company might contribute if it was due for refurbishment soon anyway.

[Mr Scruff]

I know much of the structure contains wooden parts. I know the flooring is wood. I understand this will have fire and safety implications.

 

However it is not a wooden stand.

Indeed. In fact a full wooden stand might stand a better chance of actually remaining standing due to how fire affects main structural steel members (steel/ iron melts and deflects at relatively low temperatures, and although wood burns it often burns on the surface of major structural components without deflecting inside). However, timber is combustible so the chances of a fire igniting and propagating are high in comparison with a modern stand with no wood, and when considered along with access and egress designed from a different safety generation would be a risk that would keep me awake at night had I a legal duty of care. Therefore I suggest that describing it as a wooden stand has some merit though of course it's not a structure 'made of wood'.

[potty trained]

Indeed. In fact a full wooden stand might stand a better chance of actually remaining standing due to how fire affects main structural steel members (steel/ iron melts and deflects at relatively low temperatures, and although wood burns it often burns on the surface of major structural components without deflecting inside). However, timber is combustible so the chances of a fire igniting and propagating are high in comparison with a modern stand with no wood, and when considered along with access and egress designed from a different safety generation would be a risk that would keep me awake at night had I a legal duty of care. Therefore I suggest that describing it as a wooden stand has some merit though of course it's not a structure 'made of wood'.

 

Would the floor in the stand not be treated with a fire repelant coating to minimise risk?

[potty trained]

Incidentally, to get back to the OP, i'm not all that fussed about getting a south stand built for asthetic reasons or any other reason, we don't need it.

 

i'm even more against moving the singing section to a south stand should one be built. Part of the enjoyment and one of the reasons an atmosphere has returned is due to the singing section being so close to away fans, it allows you to interact. to be moved to the south stand, would remove that interaction.

 

For me there are 2 ways the fans in a singing section generate a noise. Through supporting the team with standard songs as sung every week, and through interacting with the away fans (regardless of size). if you move the singing section, you remove that interaction. and in my opinion, return the atmosphere to as close as it was previously, without actually putting everyone back in the JHS.