Who Gets The Vote?

[Willjag]

No doubt you're voting No in September 2014.

Yes, off topic a bit, but do non Scottish residents get a vote next year anyway?

[jaggybunnet]

Yes, off topic a bit, but do non Scottish residents get a vote next year anyway?

 

yes they do but scots who work in other countries don't

[kni]

yes they do but scots who work in other countries don't

 

Yes. That's my understanding too. Scots who worked in other countries did not get a vote in the devolution referendum.

[Willjag]

So, if you are unemployed abroad or elsewhere in the UK you get a vote, however, if you work abroad, or elsewhere in the UK you don't? Am I reading you guys right?

 

ETA. Maybe this should be a separate thread?

[kni]

So, if you are unemployed abroad or elsewhere in the UK you get a vote, however, if you work abroad, or elsewhere in the UK you don't? Am I reading you guys right?

 

No. Scots living in England, Wales, Northern Ireland and foreign countries don't get votes.

[jaggybunnet]

those living in scotland, who ever they are

Edited August 10, 2013 by jaggybunnet

[Willjag]

Didn't word the initial question very well, so let me try again...

 

1/ If you are a Scot not living in Scotland, do you get the vote?

2/ Do non Scots living in Scotland get a vote?

[jaggybunnet]

Didn't word the initial question very well, so let me try again...

 

1/ If you are a Scot not living in Scotland, do you get the vote?

2/ Do non Scots living in Scotland get a vote?

 

1. No

 

2. Yes

[Willjag]

Cheers JB.

[Exiled AusJag]

I e mailed the Scottish government last year about the referendum and received the following reply:

 

Thank you for your email of 16 October regarding eligibility to vote in the referendum on

Scottish independence, and your citizenship status in the event of independence. This has

been passed to me for reply.

Firstly, I will address your question about your eligibility to vote in the upcoming referendum.

The Scottish Government consultation document

Your Scotland, Your Referendum

(published on 25 January 2012) explained that eligibility to vote would be based on who can

vote at Scottish Parliament and Scottish local government elections. That means broadly

that those resident in Scotland would be eligible to vote. This follows the precedent of the

1997 referendum on establishing a Scottish Parliament, and is in line with the internationally

accepted principle that the franchise for constitutional referenda should be determined by

residency.

Secondly, you ask about your potential citizenship status in the event of independence.

During the period leading up to the referendum there will be opportunities for widespread

discussion about the detailed implications of independence. As part of the process the

Scottish Government will set out full details of the offer to the people of Scotland in a

comprehensive white paper on independence. The Government plans to publish this in

November 2013.

I realise that does not answer your specific questions, however it is not possible to do so

until the details have been finalised and published. In the meantime, however, you can find

information on the Scottish Government’s earlier proposals for independence and the

referendum in the following publications:

Your Scotland Your Referendum

 

(http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/01/1006/)

Your Scotland Your Voice

 

(http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/11/26155932/0)

Choosing Scotland’s Future

 

(http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2007/08/13103747/0)

Victoria Quay, Edinburgh EH6 6QQ

www.scotland.gov.uk

 

I refer you in particular to Your Scotland Your Voice, section 8.22, regarding The Scottish

Government’s vision of

Citizenship in an independent Scotland.

I hope you find this information can give you an idea of the basis on which the detailed

proposals will be based.

[twinny]

There were tons of Scottish people living down south getting annoyed about this months ago. What else can be done? It's either a vote for people living in Scotland or a vote for everyone in the United Kingdom. Why should I get a vote if I live in England? I could always get registered at my parents house and post that vote in, but I don't qualify for a vote and that's that.

[jaggybunnet]

There were tons of Scottish people living down south getting annoyed about this months ago. What else can be done? It's either a vote for people living in Scotland or a vote for everyone in the United Kingdom. Why should I get a vote if I live in England? I could always get registered at my parents house and post that vote in, but I don't qualify for a vote and that's that.

 

so if you are Scottish but work outside Scotland (not by choice in some cases) you are saying thats tuff and means you dont get a vote ?? but some one from France who happens to be working in Scotland for a year does?

 

its a vote for the Scottish people, or that's what eck keeps telling us.

Edited August 14, 2013 by jaggybunnet

[Jaggernaut]

so if you are Scottish but work outside Scotland (not by choice in some cases) you are saying thats tuff and means you dont get a vote ?? but some one from France who happens to be working in Scotland for a year does?

 

its a vote for the Scottish people, or that's what eck keeps telling us.

 

Scots who are normally resident in Scotland but who are working abroad can apply for a postal vote, if they are on the electoral register. Foreign students or workers who are not normally resident in Scotland (and who don't qualify for the electoral register) will not be eligible to vote.

 

I'm sure you actually know that, but are just looking for trouble, part of the too wee, too poor, too stupid, project fear campaign.

[twinny]

so if you are Scottish but work outside Scotland (not by choice in some cases) you are saying thats tuff and means you dont get a vote ?? but some one from France who happens to be working in Scotland for a year does?

 

its a vote for the Scottish people, or that's what eck keeps telling us.

 

Tell me, how do you expect all Scottish people in England, France, Timbuktu, etc to vote?

 

Everyone gets a choice in where they work.

[The Mighty Quinn]

the english are carrying us right now. scottish people are passengers. scotland take a lot more out the union than they put in. scottish people are lazy. the labour govt has encouraged it.socialism has made us lazy and we're gettin away wae it. the tories hit the nail on thew head when they tried to turn it around.i hope they can keep a grip on it

[kni]

"eligibility to vote would be based on who can vote at Scottish Parliament and Scottish local government elections"

 

That means that any EU citizen living in Scotland can vote. Scots not living in Scotland, even if they have citizenship, cannot. So it's possible that Eastern Europeans will decide whether Scotland votes Yes or No. You couldn't make it up!

 

ETA- Ex-Pats can register to vote at General Elections which explains why eligibility to vote at a General Election was not included. The SNP must fear that ex-pats would vote no.

Edited August 14, 2013 by kni

[jaggybunnet]

Scots who are normally resident in Scotland but who are working abroad can apply for a postal vote, if they are on the electoral register. Foreign students or workers who are not normally resident in Scotland (and who don't qualify for the electoral register) will not be eligible to vote.

 

I'm sure you actually know that, but are just looking for trouble, part of the too wee, too poor, too stupid, project fear campaign.

 

so what i said then

 

I'm sure you actually know that, but are just looking for trouble, part of the too bad, too rich, too tory, project talking bollocks.

[jaggybunnet]

Tell me, how do you expect all Scottish people in England, France, Timbuktu, etc to vote?

 

Everyone gets a choice in where they work.

 

you mean like when people get postal votes and the like or a proxy vote?

 

no they don't if they want to keep that job, the armed forces being an example, you go where you are told to

[Guy Incognito]

"eligibility to vote would be based on who can vote at Scottish Parliament and Scottish local government elections"

 

That means that any EU citizen living in Scotland can vote. Scots not living in Scotland, even if they have citizenship, cannot. So it's possible that Eastern Europeans will decide whether Scotland votes Yes or No. You couldn't make it up!

 

ETA- Ex-Pats can register to vote at General Elections which explains why eligibility to vote at a General Election was not included. The SNP must fear that ex-pats would vote no.

 

No, I think the SNP are just trying to keep things as simple and fair as possible. The vote is about Scotland's future, not its past. I think it is entirely reasonable that the people who live, work and contribute to Scottish society will decide the outcome of the referendum, regardless of where they originally came from. Why should someone who no longer lives in Scotland and who has no intention of doing so ever again be in a position to influence its future, simply because they happened to be born here? That would be like me selling you my flat and then demanding a say on what colour carpet you have fitted.

 

Incidentally, I know of many ex-pats who favour a Yes vote, so I don't buy that part of your theory at all. Thinking about it philosophically it actually makes sense, for two reasons. Firstly, by living outside Scotland ex-pats will avoid exposure to the constant drip-drip of negativity emanating from Better Together via the Scottish mainstream media, and are thus able to view the bigger picture with greater clarity. Secondly, ex-pats have, in emigrating, made a bold life choice, a leap into the unknown; but one which, for the most part, has paid off. 'So if a leap into the unknown can pay off for me', thinks the ex-pat, 'then why can't it for Scotland?'.

[twinny]

you mean like when people get postal votes and the like or a proxy vote?

 

no they don't if they want to keep that job, the armed forces being an example, you go where you are told to

 

If you want a postal vote you would need to have a Scottish address to be registered to vote, technically that would be illegal as you're only allowed to be registered to vote where you are in residence, with residence defined as your stay to have 'a considerable degree of permanence'. The only people who are supposed to register at two locations are students living away from home.

 

That's my point. If living in the country is so important you can go get another job. Nobody forces people to be members of the armed forces, they choose to be. Anyway, if you're in the armed forces you're likely to be registered to vote at home and will have a postal vote.

[Norgethistle]

If you want a postal vote you would need to have a Scottish address to be registered to vote, technically that would be illegal as you're only allowed to be registered to vote where you are in residence, with residence defined as your stay to have 'a considerable degree of permanence'. The only people who are supposed to register at two locations are students living away from home.

 

That's my point. If living in the country is so important you can go get another job. Nobody forces people to be members of the armed forces, they choose to be. Anyway, if you're in the armed forces you're likely to be registered to vote at home and will have a postal vote.

 

Not true, folk on a long term job assingnment may have 2 addresses (Like I used to when I was contracting) over 3 months in Norway and you needed a residence permit which enabled you to work, and gave you a proper tax number, due to this I had 2 residences Glasgow & Stavanger, and was allowed to vote in local elections in Norway (Have to hold a Norwegian Passport to vote in Nationals) and all in Scotland.

 

As for getting another job easier said than done, I went to Norway for the reason that there was no aircraft jobs in the UK at the time and with a mortgage to pay and an expensive (Now Ex) girlfriend to keep thats what you do, I either went contracting, went minimum wage (and couldn't afford my mortgage) or went on the dole. Scotland and the UK has tens of thousands out of work and people will take long term assignments away from home to make ends meet.

[twinny]

Not true, folk on a long term job assingnment may have 2 addresses (Like I used to when I was contracting) over 3 months in Norway and you needed a residence permit which enabled you to work, and gave you a proper tax number, due to this I had 2 residences Glasgow & Stavanger, and was allowed to vote in local elections in Norway (Have to hold a Norwegian Passport to vote in Nationals) and all in Scotland.

 

As for getting another job easier said than done, I went to Norway for the reason that there was no aircraft jobs in the UK at the time and with a mortgage to pay and an expensive (Now Ex) girlfriend to keep thats what you do, I either went contracting, went minimum wage (and couldn't afford my mortgage) or went on the dole. Scotland and the UK has tens of thousands out of work and people will take long term assignments away from home to make ends meet.

 

Aye, sorry I was generalising too much when I made the student reference. That's what the 'considerable degree of permanence' was supposed to mean, you were spending time living in both countries, or at least you had a residence in Scotland that you were potentially going back to. In the case of most expats, they have no Scottish address for a postal vote.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the eligibility for this referendum. I can think of no system that will collect ALL expat votes. Postal voting can only allow those with a Scottish residency that they are linked to, so for contractors/forces personnel/etc they will have this but for the likes of me and many Nomads on this forum we will not and I really have no problem with that.

[Norgethistle]

Just get yerself registered at yer mammies house and you get a vote

I seem to remember we had to spend a minimum of 24 days a year in the country to be classed as having residence, which helped us with the Norwegian Tax too (By about 0.00001%!!!!!!!!)

[jaggybunnet]

Aye, sorry I was generalising too much when I made the student reference. That's what the 'considerable degree of permanence' was supposed to mean, you were spending time living in both countries, or at least you had a residence in Scotland that you were potentially going back to. In the case of most expats, they have no Scottish address for a postal vote.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the eligibility for this referendum. I can think of no system that will collect ALL expat votes. Postal voting can only allow those with a Scottish residency that they are linked to, so for contractors/forces personnel/etc they will have this but for the likes of me and many Nomads on this forum we will not and I really have no problem with that.

 

so let me get this right, we are happy to change the law to allow 16 to 18 year olds to vote because "this is one of the most important votes for the Scottish people" but we cant be bothered to sort something out for the thousands of SCOTTISH people who (in some cases ) are only away due to work commitments...oh and if you think that every one can pick and chose where they work then you are wrong, for some its a choice of work where they tell you or the dole and if you don't have to make that choice than i am very happy for you

[Jaggernaut]

 

 

Scotland and the UK has tens of thousands out of work and people will take long term assignments away from home to make ends meet.

 

It's a benefit of being 'better together', presumably.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Jaggernaut