The Sunnylaw Jag Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 The one that walked all over us in a friendly while playing in reverse gear wasn't. The one that walked all over us and lost 1-0 wasn't that bad either (they should have slaughtered us), but they were well on the descent by then under that useless manager they had. The Italy team in that group wasn't that great either. Spain were the best of the three, but we came closer to getting a result against them than we did against Belgium. I think this Belgium side is exceptionally good. It was quite funny listening to people on the radio yesterday going on about when we used to gub Belgium. I am 50 and can't remember such a time for the simple reason that looking back, there never was such a time. We've played them 13 times in my life and we've won twice and drawn twice. They've pretty much always been better than us even when we had good players. Someone on Radio Scotland mentioned Kenny Dalglish scoring against them in Belgium. But no-one mentioned that we lost that one 3-2.... Bang on. It was different if it was Denmark or Norway, whom we used to gub but never Belguim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 Bang on. It was different if it was Denmark or Norway, whom we used to gub but never Belguim. Belgium are something of a bogey team for Scotland. But it is only slightly more than ten years ago that they came to Hampden and I expected us to beat them - which we were on course to do before someone somewhere pushed the 'shoot-ourselves-in-the-foot' button. That result still hurts. Since then Belgium, having gone through a wilderness period, have emerged as a force we can only dream of becoming. Scotland, on the other hand, have degenerated into a team that looks set to finish bottom of the table. I know it is a tricky group but the warning signs that our game is in decline have been there for many years. Christ, I remember the World Cup '94 qualifying campaign and feeling embarrassed that we finished fourth! I'd actually be chuffed if we managed to finish this wretched campaign in that position now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 i Think that's a tad harsh, it was a franklly thankless task, even for an experienced striker, Griffiths wil only get this by playing. I personally think Griffiths does have sbility and I would .like to see us persevere with him, If not neccessarirly first choice striker. Is there maybe a wee bit of a contradiction here ? It is ok to play someone who is plying their trade in the 3rd tier of English Football, but not someone who is plying their trade in 3rd tier of Scottish Football ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Is there maybe a wee bit of a contradiction here ? It is ok to play someone who is plying their trade in the 3rd tier of English Football, but not someone who is plying their trade in 3rd tier of Scottish Football ? There is a massive gulf in class between the 3rd tier (League 1) in England and the 3rd tier in Scotland, the average attendance for games there is around the 7000 mark, now taking Rangers out the equation the average attendance in our 3rd tier is around the thousand mark, so 7 times the income stright away for all clubs, which means they can spend more on "better" players than our 1st division which will attract better players so make the standard better. who would win in these games Wolves Vs Forfar Bradford Vs Arbroath Leyton Vs Airdrie Rangers would struggle in that league as would the bottom half of our "Championship" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 It was quite funny listening to people on the radio yesterday going on about when we used to gub Belgium. I am 50 and can't remember such a time for the simple reason that looking back, there never was such a time. We've played them 13 times in my life and we've won twice and drawn twice. They've pretty much always been better than us even when we had good players. Someone on Radio Scotland mentioned Kenny Dalglish scoring against them in Belgium. But no-one mentioned that we lost that one 3-2.... I was thinking that myself - I can remember at least three previous occasions when they have beaten Scotland convincingly in World Cup or European Qualifiers. They now have an outstanding team after a few years in the wilderness but usually they have had better teams than us.. Famously, Scotland were the only unbeaten side at the 1974 World Cup Finals...but Belgium went through their entire World Cup Campaign not only unbeaten but without even conceding a goal. They didn't qualify for the Final Stages though - they were in the same qualifying group as the great Dutch team of Cruyff and Neeskens, drew 0-0 with them home and away, won all their other games but lost out on goal difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I was thinking that myself - I can remember at least three previous occasions when they have beaten Scotland convincingly in World Cup or European Qualifiers. They now have an outstanding team after a few years in the wilderness but usually they have had better teams than us.. Famously, Scotland were the only unbeaten side at the 1974 World Cup Finals...but Belgium went through their entire World Cup Campaign not only unbeaten but without even conceding a goal. They didn't qualify for the Final Stages though - they were in the same qualifying group as the great Dutch team of Cruyff and Neeskens, drew 0-0 with them home and away, won all their other games but lost out on goal difference. Imagine how sick they must have felt after that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Imagine how sick they must have felt after that! True. I'm just glad, though, that glorious failure is not our sole preserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 There is a massive gulf in class between the 3rd tier (League 1) in England and the 3rd tier in Scotland, the average attendance for games there is around the 7000 mark, now taking Rangers out the equation the average attendance in our 3rd tier is around the thousand mark, so 7 times the income stright away for all clubs, which means they can spend more on "better" players than our 1st division which will attract better players so make the standard better. who would win in these games Wolves Vs Forfar Bradford Vs Arbroath Leyton Vs Airdrie Rangers would struggle in that league as would the bottom half of our "Championship" Of course it can have an impact on speed of thought,fitness etc, if you are playing in a lower league, but surely Rhodes should have been in instead of Griffiths as he is playing at a higher standard ? I think that all of our Championship and most of our Premiership would struggle in that league. Also it is irrelevant whether Forfar would beat Wolves etc, but whether Rangers would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm usually a pretty positive person but I can't really buy into all this talk of "night and day" since Strachan took over. For me we were pretty poor under Levein and we're still pretty poor now, and we seem to be taking too many positives out of "not being humiliated". I like Strachan, and I hope he does well, but I think a lot of the talk at the moment from the tartan army is motivated by a dislike of Levein and a determination to show that he was holding us back. I reckon Levein was average and no worse than that. The national team has suffered from players going backwards, or being injured, and there's not much a coach can do about that. A few years ago you'd have looked at Craig Gordon, Alan Hutton, Stephen McManus, Phil Bardsley, Christophe Berra, Danny Wilson, Darren Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Graham Dorrans, Kris Boyd, Gary O'Connor and James MacFadden and reckoned we'd have a decent team for the foreseeable future, but most of these guys have been injured or lost form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Of course it can have an impact on speed of thought,fitness etc, if you are playing in a lower league, but surely Rhodes should have been in instead of Griffiths as he is playing at a higher standard ? I think that all of our Championship and most of our Premiership would struggle in that league. Also it is irrelevant whether Forfar would beat Wolves etc, but whether Rangers would Personally I would pick Rhodes ahead of Griffiths every time, your right about most of the teams here struggling in that league and that includes Rangers, the current Celtic team would struggle against the top of the English Championship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm usually a pretty positive person but I can't really buy into all this talk of "night and day" since Strachan took over. For me we were pretty poor under Levein and we're still pretty poor now, and we seem to be taking too many positives out of "not being humiliated". I like Strachan, and I hope he does well, but I think a lot of the talk at the moment from the tartan army is motivated by a dislike of Levein and a determination to show that he was holding us back. I reckon Levein was average and no worse than that. The national team has suffered from players going backwards, or being injured, and there's not much a coach can do about that. A few years ago you'd have looked at Craig Gordon, Alan Hutton, Stephen McManus, Phil Bardsley, Christophe Berra, Danny Wilson, Darren Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Graham Dorrans, Kris Boyd, Gary O'Connor and James MacFadden and reckoned we'd have a decent team for the foreseeable future, but most of these guys have been injured or lost form. Agreed. Scott Brown and Steven Fletcher should be added to your list of regular absentees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I'm usually a pretty positive person but I can't really buy into all this talk of "night and day" since Strachan took over. For me we were pretty poor under Levein and we're still pretty poor now, and we seem to be taking too many positives out of "not being humiliated". I like Strachan, and I hope he does well, but I think a lot of the talk at the moment from the tartan army is motivated by a dislike of Levein and a determination to show that he was holding us back. I reckon Levein was average and no worse than that. The national team has suffered from players going backwards, or being injured, and there's not much a coach can do about that. A few years ago you'd have looked at Craig Gordon, Alan Hutton, Stephen McManus, Phil Bardsley, Christophe Berra, Danny Wilson, Darren Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Graham Dorrans, Kris Boyd, Gary O'Connor and James MacFadden and reckoned we'd have a decent team for the foreseeable future, but most of these guys have been injured or lost form. With the exception of Fletcher, all these guys moved to better leagues( or for more money) and ended up not getting regular games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 the current Celtic team would struggle against the top of the English Championship They wouldn't skelp them, but I don't think they would "struggle". They've made the group stages of the Champions League two seasons in a row. I don't think the best teams in the English Championship would manage that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 They wouldn't skelp them, but I don't think they would "struggle". They've made the group stages of the Champions League two seasons in a row. I don't think the best teams in the English Championship would manage that. One of games to get there, they would have to do that week in week out which as we have seen already this year they can't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 One of games to get there, they would have to do that week in week out which as we have seen already this year they can't I think there's a typo in there somewhere. I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Not being cheeky, btw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 It's of for off. Makes sense then. IN passing as an oldie I remember back in the 60s and 70s Anderlecht and Standard Liege were big names in European football. In fact the Belgian teams were rated before the Dutch teams were. Now these clubs and even the likes of Ajax and PSV are "small" clubs as the big money is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands - meaning a less interesting football scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm usually a pretty positive person but I can't really buy into all this talk of "night and day" since Strachan took over. For me we were pretty poor under Levein and we're still pretty poor now, and we seem to be taking too many positives out of "not being humiliated". I like Strachan, and I hope he does well, but I think a lot of the talk at the moment from the tartan army is motivated by a dislike of Levein and a determination to show that he was holding us back. I reckon Levein was average and no worse than that. The national team has suffered from players going backwards, or being injured, and there's not much a coach can do about that. A few years ago you'd have looked at Craig Gordon, Alan Hutton, Stephen McManus, Phil Bardsley, Christophe Berra, Danny Wilson, Darren Fletcher, Charlie Adam, Graham Dorrans, Kris Boyd, Gary O'Connor and James MacFadden and reckoned we'd have a decent team for the foreseeable future, but most of these guys have been injured or lost form. Maybe not 'night and day' but there has been a noticable improvement already. I am certain we would not have defeated Croatia had Levein remained in charge, nor would we have scored twice against the English. Friday night's result would probably have been the same, granted, and Wales at home was more Levein than Levein. Having said that, I am confident that Strachan is the right man for the job. Tonight's game will be interesting, although I am not expecting much from it. With the exception of Fletcher, all these guys moved to better leagues( or for more money) and ended up not getting regular games. That's not necessarily true though. Charlie Adam had an excellent debut season in the SPL, so much so that he was shortlisted for player of the year IIRC. Bardsley and Hutton also played regularly, albeit both seemt to have/had a habit of upsetting people wherever they go, and Craig Gordon was Sunderland's first choice goalie before he was injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hanley is pish. Teams like Macedonia are our level now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Maybe not 'night and day' but there has been a noticable improvement already. I am certain we would not have defeated Croatia had Levein remained in charge, nor would we have scored twice against the English. Friday night's result would probably have been the same, granted, and Wales at home was more Levein than Levein. Having said that, I am confident that Strachan is the right man for the job. Tonight's game will be interesting, although I am not expecting much from it. That's not necessarily true though. Charlie Adam had an excellent debut season in the SPL, so much so that he was shortlisted for player of the year IIRC. Bardsley and Hutton also played regularly, albeit both seemt to have/had a habit of upsetting people wherever they go, and Craig Gordon was Sunderland's first choice goalie before he was injured. I am not saying that they didn't have good spells, but generally they all moved to a level that didn't guarantee them 1st team football and therefore their performances for Scotland dropped off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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