The Segregation Question

[policemans whistle]

How about a concrete coating then? Less than ripping the floors up.

Did you mean then or them!

[potty trained]

I'd happily have the singing section in the Main Stand all the time.

 

I wouldn't.

[1 John Lambie]

I'd happily have the singing section in the Main Stand all the time.

 

Can't hear a dicky bird in the JH Stand when the singers are in the Main Stand.

[jaggy]

Only issue is with games against the old firm. Things went okay against Morton with a much larger crowd than last night. 9000 compared to 7500.

Against Gang Green or Sallys Barmy Army I'd go with Excellent Main Stand and North Stand for Thistle fans and give the vermin the JHS for the time being until our home support justifies reviewing the allocation required.

The status quo will make me think twice about attending games against either shade of the arse cheek.

F.T.O.F.

While there is some merit in giving them the JHS, there's nothing 'Excellent' about the main stand & I wouldn't particularly want to sit in it. It's been a dump for years & the only way it would become 'excellent' is if it gets demolished & rebuilt

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

Let's build a Safe standing area stand down at the South end and have us Jags fans behind both goals and leave the rest to the our bigoted cousins.

[ian_mac]

Let's build a Safe standing area stand down at the South end and have us Jags fans behind both goals and leave the rest to the our bigoted cousins.

You paying for it?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I'd happily have the singing section in the Main Stand all the time.

 

Firhill's hardly a fortress this season but I wouldn't think it would be advantageous having away fans once again behind the goal. Different in other grounds as home fans will be behind the other goal. We don't have that luxury. As 1JL says you can't or can only just hear the singing coming from the Main Stand. Imo an added bonus of housing the away fans there.

[Norgethistle]

Let's build a Safe standing area stand down at the South end and have us Jags fans behind both goals and leave the rest to the our bigoted cousins.

 

The first time SITB came out Fritz bought an enormous flag with the proceeds, is this times goal to buy a safe standing area......... the basin end sounds good

[ScottyDFA]

As the stadium is at present:

 

for all non-Old Firm games, I'd have us in the whole of the JHS and the North, visiting fans in the Main Stand;

 

for Old Firm games, us in the North and Main Stands, OF supporters in the whole of the JHS (for safety and revenue purposes).

Edited March 28, 2014 by ScottyDFA

[Norgethistle]

As the stadium is at present:

 

for all non-Old Firm games, I'd have us in the whole of the JHS and the North, visiting fans in the Main Stand;

 

for Old Firm games, us in the North and Main Stands, OF supporters in the whole of the JHS (for safety and revenue purposes).

 

For revenue? Say it antagonizes enough JHS ST holders that they are being moved that they decide not to renew, short term gain for long term loss. The main stand is nowhere near the standard of the JHS with the view and access to seats poor. Why should we piss off our core support some of who have shown loyalty sat in the same seats for 20 years through some of the lowest times in our clubs history to accommodate the trolls from the east?

[1 John Lambie]

I don't think moving fans from the JH Stand is a workable idea, it's far more likely to piss fans off who've been coming for years. Some might say tough but it's a dangerous game to piss off many of those who have been there through thick & thin.

 

As such, the best solution for Celtic games is to keep the allocation as it currently is. Possibly giving them 1 more section of the JH Stand, depending how many ST holders that requires moving.

 

In an ideal world Celtic would be in the Main Stand like every other team, if that cannot happen then the status quo is the best option.

[potty trained]

I can see us sticking to the same set up... Just selling them differently.

 

For example, selling home tickets a month before Celtic tickets... Then once the Celtic end tickets go on sale, ours are closed. Empty seats are left empty.

 

I think the club would rather take a "perceived loss" ie not sell the stadium out... Than risk another Wednesday night.

 

 

ETA both Celtic games have been a PR shambles for the club this season for different reasons... Actually it's the one reason. Celtic fans can't be trusted in the main stand. However the way the club has handled this issue had been terrible.

 

We have hopefully one season to put it right before we could be facing 4 of these games. We need to have the correct procedure in place next season.

Edited March 29, 2014 by potty trained

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

The first time SITB came out Fritz bought an enormous flag with the proceeds, is this times goal to buy a safe standing area......... the basin end sounds good

SITB have met with our accountants to discuss this matter. Our projected profits for season 2013-14 would allows us to buy three deck chairs that could sit in the bing as it stands. Hopefully sales will pick up in 2014-15 to allows to buy another five. With these projections of continued growth by 2030 I reckon we could have seating for a couple of hundred.

[ScottyDFA]

For revenue? Say it antagonizes enough JHS ST holders that they are being moved that they decide not to renew, short term gain for long term loss. The main stand is nowhere near the standard of the JHS with the view and access to seats poor. Why should we piss off our core support some of who have shown loyalty sat in the same seats for 20 years through some of the lowest times in our clubs history to accommodate the trolls from the east?

 

What are all these folk going to be so angry about? Seriously? Now, if I'm already physically sitting in a seat and someone taps me on the shoulder and says I have to move to give it to some other punter - then I might be pissed off. But if I know weeks/months in advance that when the Old Firm come to visit I'm going to sit somewhere else in the ground, it's not so bad - all I'm thinking when I'm walking along Panmure Street on my way to the match is that the Jags are milking the OF's blind followers for all they're worth, and I'm happy I could be of assistance. Why would I get so precious about a seat?

[ScottyDFA]

PT's suggestion re. closing sales of home tickets before opening sales of away tickets seems worth looking at also.

[Norgethistle]

What are all these folk going to be so angry about? Seriously? Now, if I'm already physically sitting in a seat and someone taps me on the shoulder and says I have to move to give it to some other punter - then I might be pissed off. But if I know weeks/months in advance that when the Old Firm come to visit I'm going to sit somewhere else in the ground, it's not so bad - all I'm thinking when I'm walking along Panmure Street on my way to the match is that the Jags are milking the OF's blind followers for all they're worth, and I'm happy I could be of assistance. Why would I get so precious about a seat?

 

It devalues the season ticket and the fact they are forking out for the same seat for the entire season of league games. There are a lot of punters in the JHS who have taken a ST in the same seat in the JHS since its opening 20 years ago, they know where they sit, who is around them, how good their view of the match is.

For 19 home games they have that seat,which was up till this season almost always on a Saturday.

So when Rangers eventually come up you are asking for these guys to give up their seats for 3 games min(15% of their allocation) and move to a stand with a worse view, worse comfort, no hand basins, which you have to climb 3 flights of stairs to enter (Not so easy for a lot of our older support), say Aberdeen start to become the force they were in the 80s that could be 5 games we move the ST's for (25% of the ST games), add to that the movement of fixtures for the telly that some folk can't make, and the whole idea of a season ticket no longer makes sense.

[ScottyDFA]

Sorry, but I don't see any value in speculating wildly about the fortunes of Aberdeen Football Club - that's going off at a bit of a tangent, I think.

 

As for comfort and convenience, you don't have to climb up three flights of stairs to get into the North Stand, which has wash-hand basins, comparable comfort to the JHS, and uninterrupted views.

 

So, what about having 3 types of ST for the JHS, priced accordingly:

 

1) ST does not include OF visits;

 

2) Includes OF visits with move to North Stand for those games;

 

3) Move to Main Stand for OF games.

 

Could that work?

 

I know folk like to have things just so - but sometimes "taking one for the team" can fill one with a tremendous sense of well-being...

[Norgethistle]

Sorry, but I don't see any value in speculating wildly about the fortunes of Aberdeen Football Club - that's going off at a bit of a tangent, I think.

 

As for comfort and convenience, you don't have to climb up three flights of stairs to get into the North Stand, which has wash-hand basins, comparable comfort to the JHS, and uninterrupted views.

 

So, what about having 3 types of ST for the JHS, priced accordingly:

 

1) ST does not include OF visits;

 

2) Includes OF visits with move to North Stand for those games;

 

3) Move to Main Stand for OF games.

 

Could that work?

 

I know folk like to have things just so - but sometimes "taking one for the team" can fill one with a tremendous sense of well-being...

 

The view from behind the goals is no where as good as from the JHS, thats why more people choose to sit there.

 

We shouldn't have to "Take one for the team" the stewards, police and club should do their job properly and ensure that hordes of oposition fans are not allowed entry to the home end, thats the problem in this case, by moving the Jags support doesn't end that problem. Our support was moved from the Nort stand and part of the JHS and we still ended up with large sections of Celtic fans in both our sections

[ScottyDFA]

The view from behind the goals is no where as good as from the JHS, thats why more people choose to sit there.

 

We shouldn't have to "Take one for the team" the stewards, police and club should do their job properly and ensure that hordes of oposition fans are not allowed entry to the home end, thats the problem in this case, by moving the Jags support doesn't end that problem. Our support was moved from the Nort stand and part of the JHS and we still ended up with large sections of Celtic fans in both our sections

 

We don't stand a chance of reaching agreement about any of this Norge, for the simple reason we're talking at cross purposes. You're approaching this issue very much from the perspective of principle, and I agree with you - up to a point. You say the stewards and police should do their jobs properly. If you take that line to its natural conclusion, you might ask why we need segregation at all. Why can't supporters of rival clubs not mix without antagonising each other? In an ideal world, there would be no need for stewards and police. Unfortunately, too many people are antagonistic, or are too easily antagonised in these settings; and stewards and police often can't (or won't attempt to) keep control of an unwieldy crowd.

 

It seems to me we have to put principles slightly to one side occasionally for the sake of practicality. The JHS is easily the best part of the ground for accommodating pyromaniac OF fans, and the North Stand is perfectly adequate accommodation for anyone displaced from the JHS for these games. We have a ground that holds 10,000, but had only 7500 in it on Wednesday night (40-50K in lost revenue?) because we made a hash of seating arrangements.

 

If JHS ST holders (who, I think we can assume, have the club's best interests at heart) could make a small concession with regards to where they sit for OF games, and Potty Trained's idea of CLOSING sales of Main and North Stand tickets before selling the JHS to the OF is implemented, I think we could make something vaguely resembling a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[Norgethistle]

We don't stand a chance of reaching agreement about any of this Norge, for the simple reason we're talking at cross purposes. You're approaching this issue very much from the perspective of principle, and I agree with you - up to a point. You say the stewards and police should do their jobs properly. If you take that line to its natural conclusion, you might ask why we need segregation at all. Why can't supporters of rival clubs not mix without antagonising each other? In an ideal world, there would be no need for stewards and police. Unfortunately, too many people are antagonistic, or are too easily antagonised in these settings; and stewards and police often can't (or won't attempt to) keep control of an unwieldy crowd.

 

It seems to me we have to put principles slightly to one side occasionally for the sake of practicality. The JHS is easily the best part of the ground for accommodating pyromaniac OF fans, and the North Stand is perfectly adequate accommodation for anyone displaced from the JHS for these games. We have a ground that holds 10,000, but had only 7500 in it on Wednesday night (40-50K in lost revenue?) because we made a hash of seating arrangements.

 

If JHS ST holders (who, I think we can assume, have the club's best interests at heart) could make a small concession with regards to where they sit for OF games, and Potty Trained's idea of CLOSING sales of Main and North Stand tickets before selling the JHS to the OF is implemented, I think we could make something vaguely resembling a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

If we didn't need segregation we would not need stewards and police, but we do need segregation so we pay for stewards and police, so surely they should be doing their jobs to the greatest level that they can.

 

We talk about the JHS as the best area of the ground for housing pyromaniac fans, by doing this we are accepting the problem (Flares and smoke bombs being illegal) and are altering our set up to accommodate the problem rather than having the stewards and police preventing it (And the courts eradicating it by throwing the book at them)

 

Yes the ST holders have the clubs best interest at heart that is why the pay up front for a ST, BUT they are the core support, the baseload for the business and by gauranteeing to pay (maybe not attend) for every game are the ones that need to be protected, you can only grow the business by building on what you have, and by moving them that's not going to happen.

 

Why do clubs, police, courts and the football associations continue to bow down to the scum element within both sides of the old firm with their anti-social behavior, sectarian chants and banners and illegal pyros. Its the home fans that get it in the neck time and time again, having to accomodate them by moving stands or early kick offs etc whilst the guilty go unpunished