Hopeless Unbeliever

New statement from Clyde. Open, honest and transparent. A credit to the club once again. http://www.clydefc.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/4137/

Unfortunate for Mr Beattie, this is why we have a board of directors though, wonder what the rest are up to?

I could be wrong but I think that tweet was from Graeme Macpherson and he later clarified to say he was talking about a St Mirren fans meeting. Suffice to say the Buddies have gone down severely in my estimations.

Sounds like a potentially good idea FT, certainly worth a shot at zero cost to the club, presumably something the OT team could take onboard. For what it's worth I think sniping at OT before a ball has metaphorically been kicked is rather petty. Perhaps they could have kept it quiet while they worked on it over the summer to be ready for the new season but it seems like a positive step and announcing its inception and the North Stand move at the end of last season generated a bit of a positive buzz for the new season. I think people are (rightly) angry about other things now and are taking it out on this issue, if I was keen on volunteering I have seen more than enough potential points of contact through limited reading of this website. It might work, it might not, but they are trying something and I'm sure are more than happy to welcome on board as many ideas/offers as possible. You can't sit and say it's a closed shop until you've made some sort of effort to get involved.

One last post on this issue and I'm done for the evening. We have all spent varying amounts of years believing that the rules in Scottish football were not applied fairly, that there was an inherent bias towards the Old Firm. Nonetheless, we have all continued showing up week in, week out to support the club we are proud to love, that stand proudly as an alternative to the OF. Imagine concrete evidence was produced to prove that our belief over all those years was right, that the rules are different for the Old Firm? I would have a hard enough time continuing to have any interest in Scottish football if that were the case, but if my club continued to stand against such biases and special interests I would have enough pride in them to show them loyalty in the face of such corruption. Now imagine, not only is there concrete evidence of such corruption, but that my club, the club I have loved since we beat Airdrie 1-0 on the opening day of season 92/93, were actively involved in permitting such corruption, all for the price of a few shiny coins and league reconstruction that is being pursued incidentally to, rather than because of, the good of Scottish football. Why would I ever feel the same loyalty to that club again?

Also Jim I think you underestimate the feeling of younger fans on this issue. I'm not quite in the U20 age bracket any more and was just old enough to appreciate the severity of Save the Jags at the time but for the younger fans this is probably the biggest single issue our club has faced in their time supporting the club. The fans most likely to be alienated by this are the real core support, the ones who have bought completely into everything Partick Thistle stand for. For too long, clubs in Scotland have been guilty of valuing the TV money over all else, believing the fans would not desert them, that the fans could be treated like dirt and would keep coming back. I would have thought you of all people would appreciate the error of this approach, however PTFC seem to be hugely behind the curve in failing to appreciate that the severity of this issue is so huge that TV money in the grand scheme of things means **** all. I read a reply from Turnbull Hutton to an e-mail from a Raith fan on P&B. He said "I would rather be playing junior football than surrender to blackmail." A breath of fresh air in this whole fiasco, and a lead the board would be well advised to follow.

Playoffs are an absolutely key issue for me, our league is a joke without them. However, they have been a key issue for the first division for 15 years, if we're only getting them if we bend over backwards to accommodate Newco then I for one have absolutely no interest. You might be willing to sell your soul for playoffs Jim, but I have no interest in selling the soul of our club for anything. Without the integrity and independence that have made me proud to be a Thistle fan all my life, we are nothing.

Looks like it has been prepared by a ten year old! Imagine this has been leaked by a disgruntled club/chairman to try to shame others who might have been considering voting for Newco. Farcical stuff.

What must not get lost in all of this is that even relegation to the third (although it is not relegation, it's re-application to the SFL since they have no right to be in any league next season other than through that process) is not any sort of punishment, it's consequences of their liquidation. They should be eternally grateful if that is the only result of their years of systematic cheating, and be delighted to be in senior Scottish football at all.

I have no blinkered hatred for Rangers and no wish to see Scottish football die. I see an opportunity to set right certain aspects of our game to the benefit of Scottish football in the long term. The last 15 years have been the worst for Scottish football in our history, coinciding with the reign of the SPL and the peak of the spending powers of Rangers and Celtic. I have no wish whatsoever to hurt the club, however it is absolutely imperative that they understand the seriousness of this issue. Clubs such as Dundee Utd etc have led the way and we have to follow in doing what is right. I believe that the board will do that if it comes down to that, but I have no guilt in saying if I believe the club have been complicit in accommodating Rangers Newco in any way other than expulsion and re-application to the bottom of the SFL, I will reduce my interest in Scottish football and by extension Partick Thistle considerably.

I have in good faith purchased my season ticket already (albeit in installments), because I know it is beneficial to the club and I have been relatively happy with where we've been going on and off the park, happy that we were encouraging people to sign up earlier than usual. I would put myself firmly in the optimists camp, and hate to advocate any action that can damage the club, but if I felt the club played an active role in facilitating Rangers being placed in the first division in time for the start of next season, I would be doing everything in my power to have my season ticket monies refunded and pick and choose likely a few games to attend next season. League reconstruction is of fundamental importance but only in terms of having something to play for outside of top place in the first division, I don't believe that 14 or 16 team leagues are likely to have a particularly radical effect on the future of Scottish football. I absolutely would not trade this for giving Rangers a place in the first division next season, no matter how important I feel league reconstruction is integrity and fairness trump all else. I have zero interest in any supposed 'commercial' benefits anyone thinks will emerge from having Rangers in the first, this would be the most blinkered example of short sightedness ever displayed in Scottish football, and that is saying something. The problem, as Thistle have seen over the years, is once fans walk away it is extremely hard to get them to come back on a regular basis. I have been a season ticket holder since I was 7 years old, I have purchased a season ticket for the forthcoming season even though I didn't get value from my season ticket last season due to missing a few games, but if this happens I would have no interest in my season ticket and would fully expect the club to refund me the payments, since the conditions under which I bought a season ticket (optimism, belief in the club) had been so fundamentally altered. I should add I still have faith in the board to do the right thing and think it is hard to make a definitive statement when so much is up in the air, but my strength of feeling on this matter is considerably more than on any other issue our club has faced in my lifetime (StJ excepted I guess).

Will they be posted out after 7 July for those of us that can't make it in to the office? Would they be posted out earlier if I contacted the club and told them I couldn't make it in to pick it up?

Boyle and Barrowman have been told they are free to find new clubs. Always quite liked Barrowman although in general his goal record isn't particularly good at any level above second division, but he's quite an intelligent player with a physical presence, although perhaps that's McGuigan's role. I think we need someone to take the scoring burden off Doolan's shoulders a bit with Cairney gone, I'd be happy to see MacDonald sign up.

Good point re: Robertson, I genuinely had no idea and had him pegged about 28+. I thought he looked very cumbersome early in the season but overall I think he's done enough to earn a new deal, albeit I'd still like to see another centre half added if Jackie intends to go 3-5-2, although I suspect he might see Paton's future here given we have Murray and Rowson in central midfield. Would give us someone who can actually distribute the ball from defence with some accuracy, but a defence of Paton, Robertson Archie would worry me from a pace point of view. Would rather have Robertson than Keddie certainly, not sure about Canning. Saying he had to put up with playing with Scott Boyd looks a bit silly when Boyd has just been one of the stand out players for a team who walked the league.

Anecdotal of course, but my father was selling 'Save The Jags' pins in our local pub in 1997. Upon offering one to a patron of the Orange persuasion, he was promptly told that said patron did not give a f*** about the Jags. He did then offer to sell said moron a 'f*** the Jags' pin instead, but that didn't seem to work either.

Can certainly see why Hibs want Cairney on this evidence, although unless they make big changes they're going to be in another relegation battle next season, especially assuming Griffiths goes back to Wolves.

Just make sure the payments are being made, I wouldn't expect anything until the usual sending out time for season tickets which is in July. As if by magic after mentioning it yesterday the first payment was taken from my account today.

Same, sent 4 post dated cheques a few weeks ago, first payment was due to be taken 30th April but nothing so far.

Mark Corcoran has played significantly less in the first division this season than Tommy Stewart (Corcoran has played 843 minutes to Stewarts 938), who I wouldn't say has 'featured much' for us this season (although most would say too much before the usual jokers get in). It's not a completely unreasonable assertion that he hasn't featured much, especially given he's played so little in such a small squad (only 3 players have played less, most of whom have been injured or frozen out most of the season).

Does that mean we are no longer pursuing Welsh and have switched our attentions elsewhere or we are also talking to someone else (Murray?) in addition to Welsh?

Have to admit to being slightly concerned by this, they have always been very approachable and I've never had any doubt that they had anything but the good of the club at heart. They have acted as a reassuring factor in the gradual Europa takeover at Firhill and the fact that they are leaving is disconcerting, however time will tell. Hopefully it's just a case of them feeling they've served enough time and their departure is wholly amicable. Saw THW Twit tweeting that they would be no great loss, I would heartily disagree and hope that there is nothing sinister to this and they are recognised appropriately for their time and commitment to the club over the years.

I think Alan's team is spot on, I'd probably go for Balatoni ahead of Kinniburgh just because I think he'll be closer to full match fitness but other than that I like that team.

He turned 21 2 weeks ago, calling that mid 20s is ridiculous, as is saying if he hasn't fulfilled his potential now he never will. I was not a fan of Balatoni at first but you could see the improvement in his game week on week, especially when he got a bit of confidence. I think he certainly has the potential to be a bottom half SPL player at worst for most of his career, needs to work on his strength a bit perhaps but his distribution and positioning are excellent. Centre half is usually a position it takes players a bit longer to blossom in, look at David Weir or even Phil Jones, for all his ability going forward he is still a bombscare at the back. I would take him back in a heartbeat, he is only going to improve and he is already better than any other option we have at centre half (Kinniburgh possibly excepted). I'm not convinced he is going to get an SPL contract or a contract down south at this moment though, I think he might be best signing up at Firhill until the end of the season.

Is it bad that I'm jealous of the passion their situation generates amongst their fanbase as ours dwindles with apathy? http://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15733&p=194220#p194220

His goal against Celtic was a Roberts-esque 25 yard effort, he scored a well taken goal against Berwick but it wasn't that similar to Friday's goal, not sure he has scored any others this season.