Has Any Thistle Player Done The Grand Slam

[The Jukebox Rebel]

^ Ego maniac IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jaggernaut]

 

 

 

Still looking to complete the names suite for the pre-75 League double - nae offence ptd! Being a mince n tatties sort of guy I'm leaning towards "the League double" at the moment.

 

A Doublet ?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

A Doublet ?

 

A good one but then we missed out on a Three in One.

[partickthedog]

TJR. While you hunt the Doublets, a few more scoring stats for your consideration.

 

I note that you have not included Lyle Taylor in the Meatloaves. However, in season 2013/2014 he joined us in the transfer window and therefore was only a signed Thistle player with the possibility of playing against Hearts on 3 occasions. He scored on 2 of these, so is this not a kind of Meatloaf? Perhaps in reference to Tayt and Lyle, we could call it a Sugar Loaf. Has anyone else replicated this feat, most likely a loan signing, but it could be someone who joined or left mid-season for any reason?

 

It would be more common for a half season loan player to have 2 league games against any given team. If he scores in both games, I will exercise opening poster's naming rights to call this a Twinny. Lyle Taylor definitely Twinnied Ross County in the season mentioned above and looking back further Graeme Dorrans Twinnied Alloa. Has anyone else done the Twinny-Jukka Santala perhaps? I do not recall many other loan signings making much of a scoring impact in the league. Even Damon Gray was more memorable for scoring in the Cup!

 

A special and I am sure unique shout out for Mark Roberts for a league play off Twinny against Stranraer, the only two occasions we faced them on league business that season. Billy Gibson did score in both legs against Peterhead, but failed to find the net in the first four league games, so we could call his accomplishment half a crown for 2/6 or perhaps fittingly for a fishing town, an Ancient Mariner, who in the words of the epic poem stoppeth (or scoreth) one in three.

Edited October 30, 2015 by partickthedog

[jaggy]

A special and I am sure unique shout out for Mark Roberts for a league play off Twinny against Stranraer, the only two occasions we faced them on league business that season.

Did we not lose 1-0 in the 2nd leg at home?

[partickthedog]

You are correct that we lost, but it was 1-2. Holding a 3-1 advantage from the first leg, we were seeing it out 0-0 in a totally non-Thistle way when the last 5 minutes went bananas. They scored, but Marko equalised shortly afterwards to settle the nerves. Darren Brady & Stevie Nicholas then broke through 2 v 1 on their keeper but made a total shambles of the simple chance and strayed offside. Stranraer ramped up the tension by scoring again, so we ended up limping over the finish line!

[Gingerjag]

Owen coyle probably has the grand slam against us

[Barney Rubble]

Brian McPhee as well, I fear.

[partickthedog]

Kenny Deuchar, Colin McMenamin?

[Gingerjag]

Yeah McMenamin hates us I think. Either that or he supports thistle and was keen to impress but we didnt realise.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Yeah McMenamin hates us I think. Either that or he supports thistle and was keen to impress but we didnt realise.

 

I think McMenamin is a good shout. In fact I can't think of a player that's scored more goals against us over recent years.

[Jaggernaut]

I always feared the worst when Paul McGrillen lined up against us; but not sure how many times he scored against us.

 

 

There must be several OF players with barrowloads of goals against us.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jaggernaut

[potty trained]

Kenny Deuchar, Colin McMenamin?

 

Peter McDonald too.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Re Grand Slam against, there were none in our first four Premier League seasons under Bertie. I don't have full data so can't answer fully, but hope to in the future. There have been three in (fairly) recent times:

 

Darryl Duffy

04.09.2004 Falkirk [h] L1-4 (SFL First Division - game 5) 2 goals

23.11.2004 Falkirk [a] L0-3 (SFL First Division - game 15) 1 goal

29.12.2004 Falkirk [h] W2-1 (SFL First Division - game 21) 1 goal

05.03.2005 Falkirk [a] L1-2 (SFL First Division - game 28) 1 goal

 

Peter MacDonald

25.09.2004 St Johnstone [a] L1-2 (SFL First Division - game 8) 2 goals

04.12.2004 St Johnstone [h] L0-4 (SFL First Division - game 17) 1 goal

22.01.2005 St Johnstone [a] D1-1 (SFL First Division - game 24) 1 goal

16.04.2005 St Johnstone [h] L0-4 (SFL First Division - game 33) 3 goals

 

Colin McMenamin

23.09.2006 Gretna [h] L0-6 (SFL First Division - game 7) 1 goal

25.11.2006 Gretna [a] L0-4 (SFL First Division - game 15) 3 goals

13.01.2007 Gretna [h] D2-2 (SFL First Division - game 21) 1 goal

31.03.2007 Gretna [a] L0-2 (SFL First Division - game 31) 1 goal

[The Jukebox Rebel]

ptd,

 

Re the "Lyle Taylor", I didn't include him as I deemed him to be a "2 out of 4". Of course, you could change him to a "2 out of 3" based on personal appearances but it would mean revamping the whole query - not a task which I would wish to undertake as the logistics are too labour intensive. Bear in mind, you need to have level parameters across the board, whichever way you choose to do it. If you pin it to personal appearances some of the aforementioned "Hogans" (3 out of 4) could well turn out to be personal "Triple Crowns" (3 out of 3). As with many stats, the more tribuatiries you create, the messier it gets.

 

My own personal opinion is that I think the suite (Grand Slam, Triple Crown, Doublet, Hogan and Meatloaf) of goalscoring achievements is handsome as it stands, and is probably best left as is.

 

Cheers to the Jaggernaut for "The Doublet". Very Glaswegian and It has an old fashioned ring to it - just the job for the dated query in hand.

 

 

The Doublets (2 out of 2 in the League)

 

note: In the interests of fair play to players from every era I opened up this query to Thistle's four primary Leagues from 1891-92 to 1975-76, namely; Scottish Alliance, SFL, Scottish Regional League West and Southern League matches. It should be noted however that not all scorers have been uncovered in the Scottish Alliance games. All scorers may be subject to "data maturity" as is occasionally merited wherever new, suitably compelling evidence dictates.

• 99 players have registered 330 doublets.
  
• 7 players registered 10 or more - Willie Sharp (18); John Wallace (17); John Torbet (15); Sam Kennedy (12); Neil Harris (11); Sandy Hair (10); George Smith (10). [full list in spoiler].
  
• First known doubleteer was Walter Keay, with his goal at Cappielow on 30th January 1892. This was Thistle's very first League season, the pre-SFL Scottish Alliance.
  
• In the space of one week in February 1897, Motherwell became the only side to endure a triple whammy of doublets as Willie Paul, William Lawson and John Ferguson all recorded doubles; a 6-0 win at Fir Park on the 13th was followed by a 6-2 win at Inchview just 7 days later.
  
• Tom Hyslop was first to double the T*ms. In 1900-01 he scored in a 3-3 draw at Celtic Park and then again in the return, a somewhat less satisfying 2-6 reversal at Meadowside.
  
• Sam Kennedy was first to double the H*ns. In 1906-07 he scored both in a 2-0 win at Ibrox and netted again in the return, a 2-2 draw at Meadowside.
  
• Hamilton were hit for most consecutive seasonal doublets - 4 in-a-row from 1916-17 onwards.
  
• Most meritorious doublet falls to Willie Newall who registered two hauls of four vs. Dumbarton in season 1941-42; a 7-2 away win in September being followed by a 4-3 home win in December.
  
• Most famous doubleteer is Bill Shankly. He saved his one and only occurrence for the H*ns in 1943-44. "Bertie Meed he said to Bill Shankly; Did you doublet the H*ns in '43?"
  
• Last registered doublet was 26th April 1975 as Dougie Somner put Thistle 2-1 ahead at Shawfield. Both games finished 2-2 that season.
  
• Clyde were on the receiving end of most doublets; 25 in all from 1894 to 1975. Accies and Killie followed with 19 apiece. Rangers were done on 9 occasions; Celtic on 6.
  
• Willie Sharp emerges as the undoubted King of the Doublet. Not only did he bag them most often (18 times) he was the only man to do the Old Firm double; versus Rangers 1948-49 and versus Celtic in 1953-54.
  

 

 

 

The full list of doubleteers with number of doublets achieved:

 

18 - Willie Sharp

17 - John Wallace

15 - John Torbet

12 - Sam Kennedy

11 - Neil Harris

10 - George Smith

10 - Sandy Hair

9 - Peter McKennan

8 - Davie McParland

8 - Frank Coulston

7 - Jimmy Walker

7 - John Bowie

7 - Willie Newall

7 - Willie Paul

6 - Alex Stott

5 - Jim Marshall

5 - Jimmy Bone

5 - John Proudfoot

5 - John Simpson

5 - Neil Duffy

5 - Tommy Ewing

5 - Tommy Rae

4 - Bobby Grove

4 - Jimmy Kinloch

4 - John Flanagan

4 - Johnny Ballantyne

4 - William Gardner

4 - Willie Freebairn

4 - Willie Salisbury

4 - Willie Whittle

3 - Alex Wright

3 - Arthur Duncan

3 - Billy Cunningham

3 - Bobby Howitt

3 - Davie Ness

3 - George Wyllie

3 - Gordon Whitelaw

3 - Harry Gibson

3 - Joe McBride

3 - John Miller

3 - Robert Gray

3 - William Lawson

3 - Willie Miller

2 - Andy Kerr

2 - Andy Roxburgh

2 - Archie Hastie

2 - Billy Hainey

2 - Davie Mathie

2 - Frank Branscombe

2 - Fred Robertson

2 - Jimmy Gibson

2 - Joe Craig

2 - John A. Harvey

2 - John Blair

2 - John Ferguson

2 - Ronnie Glavin

2 - Tom Hyslop

2 - William Fraser

2 - William Massie

1 - Alex Craigie

1 - Alex Gourlay

1 - Alex McGregor

1 - Alex McSpadyen

1 - Alex Younger

1 - Archie McCallum

1 - Bill Shankly

1 - Carrick Hamilton

1 - Charlie Smith

1 - Dan McLindon

1 - Denis McQuade

1 - Dougie Somner

1 - Evelyn Morrison

1 - Fred McDiarmid

1 - George Boardman

1 - Hugh Brown

1 - Ian Cowan

1 - James Cleland

1 - James Colgan

1 - James Douglas

1 - James McDougall

1 - Jim Fleming

1 - Jimmy Davidson

1 - John Blackwood

1 - John Gilchrist

1 - John Hammill

1 - John Henderson

1 - John Wilkie

1 - Kenny Chisholm

1 - Lachlan MacMillan

1 - Maurice Candlin

1 - Robert Conner

1 - Robert Currie

1 - Sammy Picken

1 - Sandy MacLennan

1 - Tom Atherton

1 - Walter Keay

1 - William Leitch

1 - Willie Crawford

1 - Willie O'Donnell

 

 

[partickthedog]

Brilliant work again, TJR. Much appreciated. Our low scoring start to this season perhaps militates against multi-scoring feats. However, I am hoping that Stevie Lawless reads this thread, realises that he is the holder of the last recorded Thistle Hogan and Meatloaf, and decides to go all out against St Johnstone with a view to bagging a Triple Crown or even a Grand Slam if we both end up in the top six! Given that the Doublet is not currently available, he would then have Hoganed the potential awards open to him.

 

Imagine the post-match interview with Dools when he explains why he stood down from a vital late season penalty at McDiarmid. "Well, I knew wee Stevie was on a Meatloaf and he begged me to let him get a Triple Crown. Don't think that the gaffer was too pleased, but to be honest, we had forgotten what a penalty was."

 

Are Doublets currently off the menu, or could Mark Roberts lay claim to bringing up the century of Thistle Doublets by scoring in both legs of the play off against Stranraer, the only two occasions we played them on League business that season?

[Jaggernaut]

Brilliant stuff.

 

What's the against Robert Gray?

[Willjag]

Wasn't there 2 Robert Gray's that played for us in the 70's? (Uncle and nephew seems to stick in my head)

[The Jukebox Rebel]

Our low scoring start to this season perhaps militates against multi-scoring feats. However, I am hoping that Stevie Lawless reads this thread, realises that he is the holder of the last recorded Thistle Hogan and Meatloaf, and decides to go all out against St Johnstone with a view to bagging a Triple Crown or even a Grand Slam if we both end up in the top six! Given that the Doublet is not currently available, he would then have Hoganed the potential awards open to him.

 

Imagine the post-match interview with Dools when he explains why he stood down from a vital late season penalty at McDiarmid. "Well, I knew wee Stevie was on a Meatloaf and he begged me to let him get a Triple Crown. Don't think that the gaffer was too pleased, but to be honest, we had forgotten what a penalty was."

 

Are Doublets currently off the menu, or could Mark Roberts lay claim to bringing up the century of Thistle Doublets by scoring in both legs of the play off against Stranraer, the only two occasions we played them on League business that season?

Dools wid tae, he's that sort of boy. This was actually quite a believable story until you added that fantasy bit about getting a penalty.

 

ptd, hate to be a nawbag but I’d strongly oppose the view that League play offs should be classified alongside the League matches. No points won, no table updated, often two teams from different Leagues playing each other – the games just don’t fit. Were Stranraer playing a Second Division match or were Thistle playing a First Division match? For the purposes of milestones, streaks and tallies I consider League play-off matches as a category in their own right. Marko scoring home and away to Stranraer is akin to doing so home and away in a replayed Scottish Cup tie. IMO.

 

What's the against Robert Gray?

I use the square-bracketed roman numeral addendum as a last resort when unique database identities cannot be settled by the much preferred method; use of a common first name or the addition of a middle initial.

 

I have three born Robert Grays:

 

Robert Gray (born between 14th June 1875 to 13th June 1876) identified in my match database as Robert Gray

Robert Gray (born 23rd July 1940) identified in my match database as Robert Gray [ii].

Robert Gray (born 4th September 1948) identified in my match database as Bobby Gray.

 

So, as you can see, the doubleteer was not the player that you might have been familiar with from the early 1970s, rather the original Robert Gray whose doublets were all achieved in the 1900s.

Edited November 9, 2015 by The Jukebox Rebel