Lenziejag Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 12 hours ago, javeajag said: We shall see when TJF statement appears but my understanding is that the points are made are in fact correct on mr Creevy he approached them which is different …. Well, if a TJF board member and another TJF representative didn’t consider fan consultation until late in the process, is there really any hope for fan ownership. But as you say let’s wait we get the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 A Committee * is a group of individuals who, as such, can do nothing but who, collectively, find that nothing can be done. * Delete and insert Board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Lenziejag said: Well, if a TJF board member and another TJF representative didn’t consider fan consultation until late in the process, is there really any hope for fan ownership. But as you say let’s wait we get the statement. I think your missing the point and also making some assumptions 1. I don’t know when the full board were told and out the investment 2, I don’t know what restrictions the Tjf board members are under 3. I don’t know when the Tjf were told 4. I don’t know if the Tjf board members did raise fan consultation and when i would also add we are not yet a fan owned club in the way that we would like but hopefully its not too far away ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 The events of the past couple of weeks on the Board are a little concerning. I still don’t understand why the two guys from the PTFC Trust are serving on the Board when there were no democratic elections to select them; IMO they need to be gone as the last remnants of the evil empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, javeajag said: I think your missing the point and also making some assumptions 1. I don’t know when the full board were told and out the investment 2, I don’t know what restrictions the Tjf board members are under 3. I don’t know when the Tjf were told 4. I don’t know if the Tjf board members did raise fan consultation and when i would also add we are not yet a fan owned club in the way that we would like but hopefully its not too far away ! You are going to have to explain your 1st point. Are you saying somebody other than the board agreed the investment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: You are going to have to explain your 1st point. Are you saying somebody other than the board agreed the investment? No I think you give Tjf too much influence and control over the club…..it’s owned by the trust where the Tjf is a minority and when the investment took place they were also a minority on the club board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 17, 2023 Report Share Posted October 17, 2023 35 minutes ago, javeajag said: No I think you give Tjf too much influence and control over the club…..it’s owned by the trust where the Tjf is a minority and when the investment took place they were also a minority on the club board I am not sure I have given any influence to TJF. What I have said is that it doesn’t seem plausible that TJF weren’t aware of the investment and didn’t think about raising fan consultation until too far into the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 11 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I am not sure I have given any influence to TJF. What I have said is that it doesn’t seem plausible that TJF weren’t aware of the investment and didn’t think about raising fan consultation until too far into the process. Well that’s what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 here we go …. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/the-investment-process-and-future-fan-consultation/?fbclid=IwAR0eXjbCitpIuT7wj7R4ygDkfMAML2PXbLsZ38IE8tQsB-FCmwSBn7TAN3w_aem_Abw5YYIwDNtTLqVnefsAgUCLurafeTxqIS-45KejG6nccHYtThPqF5eR1Y6gCekyIdM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 58 minutes ago, javeajag said: here we go …. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/the-investment-process-and-future-fan-consultation/?fbclid=IwAR0eXjbCitpIuT7wj7R4ygDkfMAML2PXbLsZ38IE8tQsB-FCmwSBn7TAN3w_aem_Abw5YYIwDNtTLqVnefsAgUCLurafeTxqIS-45KejG6nccHYtThPqF5eR1Y6gCekyIdM I have read that statement. It mentions the club board negotiating the deal and TJF not seeing the detail until a couple of days before it was due to be signed. I am disappointed it doesn’t acknowledge the link between the two and address how much the TJF members on the club board knew. It also says that the loan to Alistair Creevy has been repaid. Was that before or after he was sacked ? These are important points in the road to openness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Blows Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) Hopefully things will become clearer when 'The Investors' can spare us a minute. Grand plan would be nice for starters. Nobody in their right mind chucks cash away on a lost cause unless they think there's something in it for them. I wonder if we'll get the truth or a big bunch of corporate waffle. What happens when the £500K part 1 and part 2 is all gone. Surely we should be cutting out cloth accordingly. If it means operating 1 stand on match days, part time football, inevitable drop down the league's then so be it. Would rather we survived than go bust. Edited October 18, 2023 by The Legend Blows 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 59 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I have read that statement. It mentions the club board negotiating the deal and TJF not seeing the detail until a couple of days before it was due to be signed. I am disappointed it doesn’t acknowledge the link between the two and address how much the TJF members on the club board knew. It also says that the loan to Alistair Creevy has been repaid. Was that before or after he was sacked ? These are important points in the road to openness. I suggest you send an email to Tjf asking those questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 Who exactly did the negotiating with McClymont prior to TJF being informed? What has McClymont done in the past to show his allegiance to PTFC? What are his motives? The £2m threshold for triggering McClymont's loan repayment may seem high, but it could be engineered by another loan and not simply by trading. That other loan could have fewer (or more) restrictions and cause a severe problem if repayment was demanded, i.e triggerering repayment of the McClymont loan. In this circumstance and in the event of the winding up of PTFC, the preference shares owned by McClymont would presumably have first call on the Club's assets, hence the clause preventing the Board shielding the assets behind newly formed companies. The cumbersome and slow fan consultation process outlined lends itself to another episode like this, where we are railroaded into accepting another apparently soft loan. This has to be addressed very specifically. Could someone please explain the voting arrangements on the Board vis a vis TJF and the other Trusts? Are votes counted by hands or shares? Are the McClymont redeemable preference shares voting shares or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I have read that statement. It mentions the club board negotiating the deal and TJF not seeing the detail until a couple of days before it was due to be signed. I am disappointed it doesn’t acknowledge the link between the two and address how much the TJF members on the club board knew. It also says that the loan to Alistair Creevy has been repaid. Was that before or after he was sacked ? These are important points in the road to openness. If the fans own the Club, and the TJF represent the fans, two days notice with no time to consult members is simply not good enough. This was supposed to be a new era of transparency and consultation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I have read that statement. It mentions the club board negotiating the deal and TJF not seeing the detail until a couple of days before it was due to be signed. I am disappointed it doesn’t acknowledge the link between the two and address how much the TJF members on the club board knew. It also says that the loan to Alistair Creevy has been repaid. Was that before or after he was sacked ? These are important points in the road to openness. It was before he was sacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 6 hours ago, javeajag said: here we go …. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/the-investment-process-and-future-fan-consultation/?fbclid=IwAR0eXjbCitpIuT7wj7R4ygDkfMAML2PXbLsZ38IE8tQsB-FCmwSBn7TAN3w_aem_Abw5YYIwDNtTLqVnefsAgUCLurafeTxqIS-45KejG6nccHYtThPqF5eR1Y6gCekyIdM Ok If Im reading this correctly 1. We had major Cashflow Problems 2.Despite the £270k from Rangers - the former Chairman ( plus others ) gave us a loan plus TJF gave us £50K 3.The loans were repaid ( Im assuming from Season Ticket Money - happy to be corrected on that ) So we have eaten into this Years Revenue for last Seasons Debt repayment 4.Despite all of the above this Seasons Budget is increased ( despite Football Budget from what Ive read - being reduced ) If the above is correct ( and Im happy to be corrected ) simple question WTF is going on and what are we spending the Money on ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 18, 2023 Report Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok If Im reading this correctly 1. We had major Cashflow Problems 2.Despite the £270k from Rangers - the former Chairman ( plus others ) gave us a loan plus TJF gave us £50K 3.The loans were repaid ( Im assuming from Season Ticket Money - happy to be corrected on that ) So we have eaten into this Years Revenue for last Seasons Debt repayment 4.Despite all of the above this Seasons Budget is increased ( despite Football Budget from what Ive read - being reduced ) If the above is correct ( and Im happy to be corrected ) simple question WTF is going on and what are we spending the Money on ? I think 1-3 are correct and on 4 I believe some one who is no longer here increased it ….. what’s going on is in the Tjf update …we need better and strict guidelines on the workings between the trust and the board the sooner Tjf and the trust are one body the better 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 On 10/18/2023 at 4:07 PM, javeajag said: I think 1-3 are correct and on 4 I believe some one who is no longer here increased it ….. what’s going on is in the Tjf update …we need better and strict guidelines on the workings between the trust and the board the sooner Tjf and the trust are one body the better Really - is that the Line being taken - "it wisnae me - a Big Boy did it and ran away" - so there was only one Vote in the Boardroom on the Budget Increase ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 I seem to remember in one of the videos by the board members that one of them said that the cash issues had been stabilised - that is obviously at odds with the statement put out by TJF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Really - is that the Line being taken - "it wisnae me - a Big Boy did it and ran away" - so there was only one Vote in the Boardroom on the Budget Increase ? Or two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 30 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I seem to remember in one of the videos by the board members that one of them said that the cash issues had been stabilised - that is obviously at odds with the statement put out by TJF. The loans given to enable That stabilisation were requested to be paid back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 23 minutes ago, javeajag said: Or two Two Votes + Casting Vote - makes sense - bit different from from the person who increased it "is no longer here " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 24 minutes ago, javeajag said: The loans given to enable That stabilisation were requested to be paid back They were also unsecured loans - so High Risk to the Loanee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 19, 2023 Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Two Votes + Casting Vote - makes sense - bit different from from the person who increased it "is no longer here " ? Maybe , maybe not …maybe the chairman just took a punt…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 19, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: Maybe , maybe not …maybe the chairman just took a punt…. Im sorry - there is a Budget - according to TJF it was increased ( if reading correctly they were not impressed by the increase given the financial pressures ) One Director cannot simply change the Budget ? And if they did- the others can simply disagree and change it back at the next Board Meeting? What your suggesting ( or has been suggested to you ) doesn't stack up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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