Message From The Board

[Steven H]

The nomination of Morag as the Board Rep is due entirely to the Apathy of the Jags supporters as a whole. The Board has been forced to acceed to this in view of the complete lack of alternatives. So all the snipers should retreat into their shells if they are not prepared to get involved themselves. It's as simple as that IMO. Increased interest in the Trust can only improve its effectiveness.

 

I partly agree with this, apathy definately had a huge part to play in Morag becoming Fan Rep but your line "So all the snipers should retreat into their shells if they are not prepared to get involved themselves" is harsh. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here but when Kieron stood down earlier than intended I cant recall any public call from the Trust to it's members (and the fans generally) to say this position was available. There were murmerings and not much more IIRC.

 

Now take the lead up to the recent open meeting, this was publicised in lots of places and most fans were aware of it...if that level of publicity was given to the fact there was an important position available we may have seen more interested parties getting involved. I'm with B.C.G...it's important from here on in to have our JTB elected by the fans and not chosen because there was nobody else stepping forward...this will take a lot more effort from the fans than we have seen recently and a lot more information from the JT in the run up to 'elections'.

[Steven H]

<snip>

 

if we're all going to move on together then the BOD have to accept that they don't have a hand in choosing our Rep. My question for David Beattie is, if the Trust held another election, and several candidates stood, and hundreds of fans voted, and the result still returned Morag as our nominated Representative - would he then welcome her onto the Board?

 

If the answer is yes, then maybe we can do some business. If it's no, then they can all shove their elitism up their backsides. So can we have a bit of clarity on this?

 

This is the bottom line right now imo, do the Club board want to hand pick the Rep themselves or would they accept a properly elected person? I agree with the board that they need a Fan Rep who has the skills to justify being in that position but this is our representative and it should be the fans who decide whether he/she has the skills required. The way Morag was 'elected' gives the board a mandate to do what they have done, but that's assuming this is not a personal issue they have with Morag, but a properly elected fan who has gone through a mini campaign where several people are in the running must not be challenged by the board in future.

[B.C.G. JAG]

The nomination of Morag as the Board Rep is due entirely to the Apathy of the Jags supporters as a whole. The Board has been forced to acceed to this in view of the complete lack of alternatives. So all the snipers should retreat into their shells if they are not prepared to get involved themselves. It's as simple as that IMO. Increased interest in the Trust can only improve its effectiveness.

Sadly very true, but also underlines why the BOD need to accept whoever is put forward. Morag's 'election' was hardly perfect but it was legal and the BOD have no right to veto it, especially since the position was promised in lieu of the Centenary Fund Merger.

 

I would love it if we had a number of candidates step forward to contest the position however some reality checks are needed here. We have about 2000 regular supporters - of which I believe about a quarter are fully paid up members of the Supporters Association. I'm pretty sure that percentage is either comparable or even better than a lot of Clubs. As has been suggested, our own percentage could be significantly increased with lifetime memberships and lower fees, however as things stand, from a membership of 500 or so, it's hardly surprising that there isn't a whole raft of nominees with

a. the political will,

b. the personality traits,

c. the experience,

d. the confidence,

e. the ideas,

f. the articulation skills

g. the support of their peers,

h. the time

 

...to want to do that job - one that comes with huge responsibility and time commitments and very little in terms of compensation never mind reward. Now David Beattie wants us to add:

 

i. successful business owner

j. commercial strategist and adviser

k. any number of entrepreneurial specialist skills.

 

Well sorry, but no. This is our Rep and we should, to be honest, all be glad that someone, anyone, is willing to sacrifice their family time, leisure time and work time to help the Club unpaid. Let's face it - our Rep won't be getting the same perks that the other Directors enjoy!

 

We have put forward a Rep. No the election process wasn't perfect and no I'm no exactly happy about it and want to see some reform to stop it happening like that again. But if the BOD want i. - k. then they will have all our support in searching the support and beyond to find those skills, but don't insist on OUR Representative meeting your impossible standards. Especially when the person who may meet your standards fails to meet ours.

 

There is a slight whiff of class bigotry here. I sincerely hope not. So, let's hear from the BOD what they really mean, I'm fed up asking this time and time again - "What if Morag was properly elected, would you still veto her?"

Edited October 17, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG

[Allan Heron]

Spotted Tom Hughes getting on the bus after the game. How the mighty have fallen...

 

It went downhill for him after that - I was on the same bus

[Steven H]

It went downhill for him after that - I was on the same bus

 

[Fellow Traveller]

We need to put the smartest possible person with the maximum possible backing from the support (ie votes) into the boardroom. But that's for our protection, not primarily to make David Beattie's life easier. One key aspect of the fans' rep role, which has been proven necessary time and time again at clubs large and small, is to keep an eye on what the board are getting up to.

 

Whether or not they like to hear it, or if it offends their sense of honour, the custodians of football clubs have shown themselves all too often not to be trusted and a representative of the fans is not just there to drive the business forward, but to help "keep them honest" (which is not to imply any dishonesty from any member of the PTFC board, past or present, blah blah blah). And to do that now I think we need someone with some savvy on the business and property side because that's an integral part of the club's future existence.

 

A smart, capable fans' rep with strong backing from an energised Trust is what we should always expect/demand anyway. Other qualifications, of the type suggested in Mr Beattie's general positive message, would be a bonus, but to make them a barrier to entry is bullshit and bluster with just a hint of bullying.

[Allan Heron]

I partly agree with this, apathy definately had a huge part to play in Morag becoming Fan Rep but your line "So all the snipers should retreat into their shells if they are not prepared to get involved themselves" is harsh. I'm not sure if I'm in the minority here but when Kieron stood down earlier than intended I cant recall any public call from the Trust to it's members (and the fans generally) to say this position was available. There were murmerings and not much more IIRC.

 

Steven - the election process had already taken place by the time that Kieron stood down so it was in the hands of the Trust Board by that time in any event.

 

I do agree with your general point though. There has over the years been too much sniping about the Trust and those who have been involved which would largely be resolved by people getting more involved. If you don't like somebody that's on the Trust Board then make sure there's an alternative to choose. If you don't do that then there's an inevitable outcome to that.

 

As for the Board Rep position I'd certainly support a change in the procedures for selection. David Beattie's comments yesterday were implying that we could end up with a job spec for the Trust rep. I'd welcome something along these lines provided that is something that is negotiated with the Trust Board and not imposed. I'd also welcome that potential applicants should be subject to review by the Trust Board before being put forward by the Trust Board as there is a need to ensure that any choice put before members represents a choice between credible and competent individuals. In total, that would seem to increase the level of professionalism all round which is to be welcomed.

 

I do also hope that we will learn what all the members of the CLub Board will be doing, and that they will have a strategic plan that they can share with the fans and update us on regularly. And for those unfamiliar with management speak, a strategic plan is one which doesn't consist of bumbling along from season to season with fingers and legs crossed in the hope that something somewhere will happen to sort things out.

[Mad Mull Jag]

I agree with Alan with the Board Rep position , let the BOD and the JT board come up with a reasonable job profile for the role then allow people to submit their CVs/interest in the postion.

 

The JT can weed out the ones which arent suitable then allow the board to look at the possible candidates and get one involved

 

Thsi way the BOD know what their gettign the JT have someone capable/credible in the rep position and it might go a long way to get rid of th eus/them scenario we have at the moment.

 

Also I would like the BOD to come forward onvce they have completed their review of the club and ask for assistance for the gaps they think they have, allowing supporters to come forward to help out/support in the areas we need most

[McKennan]

I agree with the board that they need a Fan Rep who has the skills to justify being in that position but this is our representative and it should be the fans who decide whether he/she has the skills required.

 

 

Excellent idea. Let's extend that requirement to cover the whole board.

[McKennan]

i. successful business owner

j. commercial strategist and adviser

k. any number of entrepreneurial specialist skills.

 

 

 

There seem to have been a few 'successful business owners' on the board. However, when it comes to football business it all ends up a complete hash, doesn't it?

 

Is there anyone aboot the trust who has worked for a sporting organisation?

[McKennan]

 

There is a slight whiff of class bigotry here. I sincerely hope not.

 

Inverted snobbery, perhaps.

[McKennan]

I agree with Alan with the Board Rep position , let the BOD and the JT board come up with a reasonable job profile for the role then allow people to submit their CVs/interest in the postion.

 

If the trust is going to behave like an employer, why not see to it the rep is rewarded and protected in the manner of an employee?

 

Edited to add: When does the trust membership get to vote on this leap from grassroots democracy to meritocracy?

Edited October 17, 2010 by McKennan

[Steven H]

Excellent idea. Let's extend that requirement to cover the whole board.

 

Consider the bit of my post you quote in conjunction with this by Allan...

 

 

As for the Board Rep position I'd certainly support a change in the procedures for selection. David Beattie's comments yesterday were implying that we could end up with a job spec for the Trust rep. I'd welcome something along these lines provided that is something that is negotiated with the Trust Board and not imposed. I'd also welcome that potential applicants should be subject to review by the Trust Board before being put forward by the Trust Board as there is a need to ensure that any choice put before members represents a choice between credible and competent individuals. In total, that would seem to increase the level of professionalism all round which is to be welcomed.

 

 

...and we start to get somewhere imo. It would make sense for the Jags Trust and the Club Board work together to draft a job spec for the Fan Rep. It would also make sense for the Jags Trust Board to review the applicants to avoid mugs being given a platform to make fools of themselves. Have a handful of people who meet the specifications and can do what's required then let them convince us that they can represent us in the way we want.

 

That's integrated working, it's democratic and it gives the elected Fan Rep maximum justification for being in the position. He/she meets the Board and Jags Trust job specification, passes the JTB review process and is elected by the fans...leaves very little scope for complaint about who is in that position.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Steven H

[Willjag]

I wonder if Shuggie still has his ideas list lifted from the old ptfc.net forum?

[northernsoul]

It was so refreshing to read a well constructed, clear and truthful Bod column in the programme yesterday compared to the lying, patronising crap from Cowan over the years.

 

First programme in years where I thought the purchase in itself was justified by Mr. Beattie's column.

[Ma Ba']

I agree with Alan with the Board Rep position , let the BOD and the JT board come up with a reasonable job profile for the role then allow people to submit their CVs/interest in the postion.

 

The JT can weed out the ones which arent suitable then allow the board to look at the possible candidates and get one involved

 

Thsi way the BOD know what their gettign the JT have someone capable/credible in the rep position and it might go a long way to get rid of th eus/them scenario we have at the moment.

 

Also I would like the BOD to come forward onvce they have completed their review of the club and ask for assistance for the gaps they think they have, allowing supporters to come forward to help out/support in the areas we need most

 

Totally disagree. it is the Trust's Rep, selected or elected by the JT, The Club's BoD should not have the final veto. also the position is 'JT Rep' on the board, nothing more.

[Fearchar]

Totally disagree. it is the Trust's Rep, selected or elected by the JT, The Club's BoD should not have the final veto. also the position is 'JT Rep' on the board, nothing more.

The board, albeit with a different mix of members, agreed to allow a Trust representative to sit with them. How the Trust's representative is appointed is not a matter for the board. That doesn't preclude the board from having a quiet word of advice for the Trust, or even from offering suggestions for the qualities that might be useful in the holder of that position, but refusing to allow the Trust's appointed representative to take up his or her place is a clear breach of the existing agreement between the board and the Trust.

 

Since the board itself does not appear to be properly constituted (with a chair and a secretary) at the moment, there might be some excuse purely on administrative grounds for not holding board meetings, and in that case, obviously, the Trust's representative could not attend, but that reflects poor organisation on the part of the current board more than any fault on the part of the Trust.

 

If the Trust's representative is not allowed to attend board meetings, then the Trust should make a formal complaint that the existing agreement has been breached; in the absence of responsible postholders on the board, the Trust may even consider mentioning to the directors that the irregular position of the board could be pointed out to regulatory authorities. After all, the Trust, at least, is properly constituted and appoints office holders according to the rules.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Fearchar

[Junior]

Totally disagree. it is the Trust's Rep, selected or elected by the JT, The Club's BoD should not have the final veto. also the position is 'JT Rep' on the board, nothing more.

 

The Trust has a responsibility to act like the holder of 1m shares not just as a representative of the fans. The club should be looking for that shareholder (if it wants to hold a directorship) to then meet certain criteria to be a director. You should then publish those criteria and encourage people to stand for election.

 

Simple as that IMO.

[Vom Itorium]

The Trust has a responsibility to act like the holder of 1m shares not just as a representative of the fans. The club should be looking for that shareholder (if it wants to hold a directorship) to then meet certain criteria to be a director. You should then publish those criteria and encourage people to stand for election.

 

Simple as that IMO.

I totally agree with that. We can't just have anyone becoming involved as the club needs all hands on deck to help us run in a professional manner for once. For far too long now we've been run like a bowling club and we need top-end professionals with business brains at the helm to help get the club running on an even keel.

 

There seems to be genuine belief amongst many on the JT that the club is going to be reborn. If this is the case then the JT has to be looking at how it can best become part of this, as is it's right by holding 1million shares, but also how best they can help bring more professionalism to the club and effect change at Boardroom level. If this means canvassing members again for new candidates to come forward then the battle to install Morag should be put to one side and the JT Board should be putting in place something to allow them to have the best possible business-minded person on the inside.

[rodmac]

I totally agree with that. We can't just have anyone becoming involved as the club needs all hands on deck to help us run in a professional manner for once. For far too long now we've been run like a bowling club and we need top-end professionals with business brains at the helm to help get the club running on an even keel.

 

There seems to be genuine belief amongst many on the JT that the club is going to be reborn. If this is the case then the JT has to be looking at how it can best become part of this, as is it's right by holding 1million shares, but also how best they can help bring more professionalism to the club and effect change at Boardroom level. If this means canvassing members again for new candidates to come forward then the battle to install Morag should be put to one side and the JT Board should be putting in place something to allow them to have the best possible business-minded person on the inside.

 

 

I would agree with the above statement to a degree, however I feel that it is not necessary for a business minded person to hold this position. It does however need to be someone who can adequately represent the support,whilst at the same time be able to understand and adequately function within a board room environment. Ideally they should also be good communicators in both verbal and written forms of communication.

I feel sure that there must be a number of people who would meet such requirements within the current support.

Edited October 18, 2010 by rodmac

[Lambies Lost Doo]

There is a slight whiff of class bigotry here. I sincerely hope not.

"Class bigotry" from the board or yourself? The whole working and middle class classification is redundant. A teacher and someone who works in and office is middle class but they could be making a lot less money than a person with their own plumbing or taxi business.

 

Interesting comment from Gordon Chisholm on the fans rep at Dundee

 

Dundee’s fans are demanding answers from the board about how they got themselves into a position where the club’s future is on the line and are questioning the role of the fans’ representative, George Knight.

 

“George Knight was put on the board to make sure something like this didn’t happen,” added Chisholm.

 

“He is the one man who should have been standing up and saying, ‘Wait a minute, this is not right’. His job was to let the fans know what was going on and he didn’t do it.

 

“He’s a nice guy and down to earth but they all got blinded by Calum Melville’s money.”

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/chisholm-dundee-board-were-bewitched-by-melville-s-millions-1.1062370

[lady-isobel-barnett]

"Class bigotry" from the board or yourself? The whole working and middle class classification is redundant. A teacher and someone who works in and office is middle class but they could be making a lot less money than a person with their own plumbing or taxi business.

 

Interesting comment from Gordon Chisholm on the fans rep at Dundee

 

Dundee’s fans are demanding answers from the board about how they got themselves into a position where the club’s future is on the line and are questioning the role of the fans’ representative, George Knight.

 

“George Knight was put on the board to make sure something like this didn’t happen,” added Chisholm.

 

“He is the one man who should have been standing up and saying, ‘Wait a minute, this is not right’. His job was to let the fans know what was going on and he didn’t do it.

 

“He’s a nice guy and down to earth but they all got blinded by Calum Melville’s money.”

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/more-scottish-football/chisholm-dundee-board-were-bewitched-by-melville-s-millions-1.1062370

As I understand it Knight was originally put on the Dens board as fans rep but was no longer in that role tho' he remained as adirector. Looks like a case of poacher turned gamekeeper.

Perhaps the reason Mr Knight the ex fans rep remained on the board was because he brought unique skills to the position?

[kevin energy]

In my opinion there is only 2 classes the Working class and the Capitalist class

[Big Welshy]

In my opinion there is only 2 classes the Working class and the Capitalist class

 

Different class, Kev.

 

Damn, that's three.

[Phoenix]

Is it not the case that the Trust have no right to a place on the board and are only there by invite of the BOD?