David Beattie

[PaleGreySky]

^ Same please. Bit out of the loop at the moment, so an update would be much appreciated.

[jaf]

I tend to agree with much of what you say in relation to the antics of our BoD in the past, and what you say in relation to TH in the present BUT, someone said on the forum that PTFC is more important than one individual. Your last line suggests otherwise.

 

I agree, TH has long outstayed his welcome but fans packing up and pi55in off is not the answer imo. That said, I appreciate you are probably 'war-weary'...as is DU and many others...but until TH returns his shares (or sells them to an appropriate person) he will always have influence at the Club whether involved in the running of it or not (as evidenced by the JA farce). So how does staying away help the Club?

 

Its a great point, and one that has been wrestled with long and hard by more than just me.

 

The problem is they think they can do what they want because exactly of your post, the emotional bond we all have with the club means we wont hurt the club to make our point. And so we spend years is a state of doing nothing. When people do try to do something, TH 'always wins'.

 

I am not asking others to do the same, I am simply another stay away disillusioned fan. I have a really busy life. Partick Thistle to me has been an emotional, a time and a financial commitment for many years. But its now emotional only and even that is waning.

 

Don't think I have arrived here without trying to help out the club in many ways so I don't think I could do better or have tried harder. My conscience is clear. As for how is it helping the club? It helps the club because the more disengaged I am,the less likely I am to come on here and post the things that wind me up about Hughes and PTFC that have not yet been brought into the public domain, because I understand it is better for the club not to have division and distractions when we face a difficult summer and 2011/12 season.

[lennythistle]

Its a great point, and one that has been wrestled with long and hard by more than just me.

 

The problem is they think they can do what they want because exactly of your post, the emotional bond we all have with the club means we wont hurt the club to make our point. And so we spend years is a state of doing nothing. When people do try to do something, TH 'always wins'.

 

I am not asking others to do the same, I am simply another stay away disillusioned fan. I have a really busy life. Partick Thistle to me has been an emotional, a time and a financial commitment for many years. But its now emotional only and even that is waning.

 

Don't think I have arrived here without trying to help out the club in many ways so I don't think I could do better or have tried harder. My conscience is clear. As for how is it helping the club? It helps the club because the more disengaged I am,the less likely I am to come on here and post the things that wind me up about Hughes and PTFC that have not yet been brought into the public domain, because I understand it is better for the club not to have division and distractions when we face a difficult summer and 2011/12 season.

 

Jaf I fully respect your views and there are clearly more things you are so upset about but at this time have opted not to talk about.

 

Just don't see any benefit to the club if people stay away due to feelings towards the board. Actually don't understand people who stay away when it is pysically possible to go, regardless of reason.

 

My dad and I have had many a fall out over this very matter. He refuses to go back to Firhill after what occurred at Stirling in October. He found the events that day shocking and the arguements on here over what occurred only served to sicken him further. I've argued that him not attending only harms the club. He won't listen (I'm playing in the fun day, he still refuses to come along). I will always bare a grudge to those who were responsible that day (the ones who verbally abused and threatened us, not the couple of lads who were swearing in the first place and subsequently taken out the ground) but I feel it only harms the club if i did not attend when i can. I don't go to firhill with the view that it will line the pockets of TH or AC or whoever is working at board level. I go because i support PTFC. I take my kids because i want them to support PTFC.

 

I know i'm not going to change your mind or others like you and i'm not having a go at you either. It just won't be all the fault of the board if the club does go to the wall. We'll all have played a part in that....some just more than others.

[Steven H]

Its a great point, and one that has been wrestled with long and hard by more than just me.

 

The problem is they think they can do what they want because exactly of your post, the emotional bond we all have with the club means we wont hurt the club to make our point. And so we spend years is a state of doing nothing. When people do try to do something, TH 'always wins'.

 

I am not asking others to do the same, I am simply another stay away disillusioned fan. I have a really busy life. Partick Thistle to me has been an emotional, a time and a financial commitment for many years. But its now emotional only and even that is waning.

 

Don't think I have arrived here without trying to help out the club in many ways so I don't think I could do better or have tried harder. My conscience is clear. As for how is it helping the club? It helps the club because the more disengaged I am,the less likely I am to come on here and post the things that wind me up about Hughes and PTFC that have not yet been brought into the public domain, because I understand it is better for the club not to have division and distractions when we face a difficult summer and 2011/12 season.

 

When I first joined up to the forum (the previous one) I really didnt understand the stance being taken by some (mainly DU in his previous guise) but over the past couple of years have learned more and more about the points you guys have been making. I don't doubt you have arrived at this decision after trying hard to do something about it, but it pi55es me off that TH (and AC and EP) can influence fans in this way. I understand your stance is 'a point of principle' (for want of a better phrase) and I guess that is no bad thing, and the number of people taking a similar stance to yourself seems to be growing, but it won't help the long term future of Partick Thistle.

 

Entering the realms of ideology now but, and I've said this before, fans need to stick together and although I disagree with the staying away stance I completely agree with the reasoning behind doing this. When you say "when people try to do something TH 'always wins'" then I understand that must be frustrating for those who have tried. I just think there must be an alternative to staying away...niave maybe but I dont think there will be too many people who disagree that TH, AC and EP have served their time and done a good job for some of that time. I also think many will agree that their time is up. I for one can't really believe they are still prominent at the Club and seeing EP on the pitch for the CF car draw and hearing about TH bumping his gums in hospitality (I assume in an official capacity) is a slap in the face considering they were meant to have left the Club, and AC is still in charge of the Business Club. The reason these guys quit the BoD (or were forced out) was because of the damaging effect they were now having on the Club and I would like to see them gone completely, see how they cope being normal fans like the rest of us.

 

The big question that remains unanswered is what can we do about it? Answers on a postcard please.

[Fellow Traveller]

On the staying away thing, it changed for me when my old man passed away. For a while it was just too upsetting to go to the games and then family circumstances and work got in the way of regular attendance. After scarcely missing a home game for 30-odd years it felt wrong not to be up there every week, a really strange and uncomfortable feeling. And then - big shocker - it gets easier and now I could very much take it or leave it.

 

It's obvious from the attendances that there are now literally thousands of variations on this story. I wouldn't personally let Hughes or Cowan or any of them keep me away from Thistle because in the big scheme of things they are nothing, but the impact of their continual involvement certainly doesn't help. Definitely wouldn't fork out for hospitality if it meant wearing a shirt and tie AND listening to crap from one of them.

[Steven H]

On the staying away thing, it changed for me when my old man passed away. For a while it was just too upsetting to go to the games and then family circumstances and work got in the way of regular attendance. After scarcely missing a home game for 30-odd years it felt wrong not to be up there every week, a really strange and uncomfortable feeling. And then - big shocker - it gets easier and now I could very much take it or leave it.

 

It's obvious from the attendances that there are now literally thousands of variations on this story. I wouldn't personally let Hughes or Cowan or any of them keep me away from Thistle because in the big scheme of things they are nothing, but the impact of their continual involvement certainly doesn't help. Definitely wouldn't fork out for hospitality if it meant wearing a shirt and tie AND listening to crap from one of them.

 

Never saw this post before I PM'd you. Ive been there, kinda. For various reasons I spent a few seasons in the wilderness where I made it to a handful of games per season (the most successful era of my lifetime when we won the 2nd then the 1st then survived in the SPL against all the odds)and I totally understand the point that it gets easier.

 

It also gets easier to get back into the habit, but there are numerous reason why people can't or won't go to games. If the SOLE reason is to take a stance against something (like the TH/AC/EP thing, or Propco) then I don't understand the benefits of that to Partick Thistle. Anyway, Ive said more than enough.

[Mr Bunny]

Sounds like there's a way the likes of Hughes, Cowan, etc. could get the lost fans back and make some extra cash for the club. Have them appear in stocks at half time and all the fans who pay a bit extra get to throw rotten veg at them.

 

 

(I get to keep anything not used).

Edited April 22, 2011 by Mr Bunny

[jaf]

Sounds like there's a way the likes of Hughes, Cowan, etc. could get the lost fans back and make some extra cash for the club. Have them appear in stocks at half time and all the fans who pay a bit extra get to throw rotten veg at them.

 

 

 

Surely the sleight of hand performed with the directors resignations and the complicity of Beattie and Allan in that mean they should not be excused the stocks?!! Anything goes wrong which the fingerprints of TH are on, and they will be guilty by association; its not as if they have not had enough warnings. I hope they do understand the reputational risk they are taking on because I actually think both of them do care about the club and want to do what is right. But they don't want to take on the man who 'always wins' - even when they try, they back down.........impressive stuff.

[Woodstock Jag]

Surely the sleight of hand performed with the directors resignations and the complicity of Beattie and Allan in that mean they should not be excused the stocks?!! Anything goes wrong which the fingerprints of TH are on, and they will be guilty by association; its not as if they have not had enough warnings. I hope they do understand the reputational risk they are taking on because I actually think both of them do care about the club and want to do what is right. But they don't want to take on the man who 'always wins' - even when they try, they back down.........impressive stuff.

 

Probably a good time just to point out that Billy Allan has no shares in the football club.

[McKennan]

Probably a good time just to point out that Billy Allan has no shares in the football club.

 

Probably a good time to ask why not and wonder aloud why, then, does he seem to have so much influence?

[lennythistle]

Probably a good time to ask why not and wonder aloud why, then, does he seem to have so much influence?

 

Just asking, but is it not to our benefit that he does. Has he not been giving the club much needed funds ?

[Woodstock Jag]

Probably a good time to ask why not and wonder aloud why, then, does he seem to have so much influence?

 

Question I'd ask is "does he"?

 

Certainly an interested party in PropCo, but any suggestion of him being part of a plot to remove Jim Alexander is a bit wide of the mark given it was done at a shareholders' meeting. Allan could have had as much influence on that outcome as I could the destination of the next World Cup tournament.

 

Now Tom Hughes on the other hand... if his 1 million shareholding wasn't used to vote against Jim Alexander, then shares on the board were. Given his closeness to Beattie (remember they were the two who were in touch with the Jags Trust before the AGM) you do the maths.

[Dark Passenger]

Just asking, but is it not to our benefit that he does. Has he not been giving the club much needed funds ?

Never mind your intentions, just give us your money. How very Dundee of us.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Dark Passenger

[lennythistle]

Never mind your intentions, just give us your money. How very Dundee of us.

 

sorry think you have misinterpreted my post. I was asking a genuine question. Do you have any evidence to support that Billy Allan has bad intentions towards PTFC ? I've certainly not heard any but then there are plenty of others that are closer to the goings on at firhill than i am.

[Steven H]

sorry think you have misinterpreted my post. I was asking a genuine question. Do you have any evidence to support that Billy Allan has bad intentions towards PTFC ? I've certainly not heard any but then there are plenty of others that are closer to the goings on at firhill than i am.

 

The only concern I have about BA is his conflict of interest as a result of him being a major player in Propco...when the dust settles on that situation we'll all know his intentions, of that I have no doubt.

 

He aint the only one with this conflict of interest, but there are additional concerns in relation to them.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Never mind your intentions, just give us your money. How very Dundee of us.

In my mind Billy Allan's financial input into the Club would only mirror Dundee if that input was expressed in terms of a loan.

[1 John Lambie]

Probably a good time to ask why not and wonder aloud why, then, does he seem to have so much influence?

 

Does he have influence though? I think he's trying to make the club more efficient and professional. He seems to be putting money in the club, that seems to be via his company/companies, or via companies he has dealings with. My opinion. He is possibly a shy guy and does not want any attention for any help he may be giving the club?

[Vom Itorium]

Does he have influence though? I think he's trying to make the club more efficient and professional. He seems to be putting money in the club, that seems to be via his company/companies, or via companies he has dealings with. My opinion. He is possibly a shy guy and does not want any attention for any help he may be giving the club?

Unlike others who want to cling on to the shares they 'earned' even though they were only custodians and who can't seem to let go of the mic or club tie and continue to pollute the air at Firhill.

 

The whole set-up of our club stinks and the common denominators in that stench wear clown shoes and cannae count.

Edited April 23, 2011 by Vom Itorium

[jaf]

There is one answer I would like from Mr Beattie - when he was 'selling' propco to people, he was bullishly predicting a sizeable haircut on the clubs bank debt as part of the transaction, ie the club would get more than a £ for £ reduction in the debt by doing the deal, which of course made it more attractive to 'Thistle minded people'.

 

How much of a haircut did Messrs Beattie and Hughes actually achieve?

[jaf]

I know i'm not going to change your mind or others like you and i'm not having a go at you either. It just won't be all the fault of the board if the club does go to the wall. We'll all have played a part in that....some just more than others.

 

Aye thats right, it was the fault of the customers that Woolworths went bust. Oh and it was the fault of the customers that Setanta Sports went pop. Borders...again the customers fault. Sorry Lenny, a board have a responsibility to run the company in a way to try to retain and acquire customers - our Board do not pursue this basic business model instead driving countless people away by a variety of actions. It is a nonsense to blame people for staying away when you do not know what they have done in the past, or what their reasons for staying away truly are.

 

"Some more than others"....I am happy to get into a p*ssing contest with you anytime mate about what I have contributed. And not just me thats really insulting to lots of true fans who dont go anymore.... Lianne MacDonald as one example. But I hate the good fan/bad fan/better fan debate...we are all just fans....I care so much about the club but I know of friends who have been bullied, shafted, I know of things that shouldnt have happened that did happen, I know of some competencies, and lots of incompetencies, I know that when you have someone whispering in board members ears that the fans are a bad lot then we have no future apart from one where GOOD FANS drift away and continue to drift away.

 

Your approach is to keep giving those people that hold their customers in such contempt custom and ego-stroking, by saying the alternative is too bad to contemplate - who is to say there is anything wrong with that view except it perpetuates the problems. My view is the future of Partick Thsitle would be better without the stench others have spoken about and greater supporter engagement would happen and crowds would gradually improve. We have tried fingers crossed hope and continuing to hand over the cash long enough and nothing changes, in fact it gets worse, so all I am saying is lets try a different approach. The great thing about Patick Thistle was never the board nor rarely the players, nor even the ground...the great thing was the soul of the club and that came from people like you and me.....and that soul has gone in recent years. I used to be proud to be a Partick Thistle fan, proud of our board, proud of every player no matter how limited his ability and proud of fellow fans...now there are some people who just embarrass me - at a board level in the main.

[jaf]

 

When you say "when people try to do something TH 'always wins'"

 

 

 

Thats the view of the man himself.

 

We will see......

[lennythistle]

Aye thats right, it was the fault of the customers that Woolworths went bust. Oh and it was the fault of the customers that Setanta Sports went pop. Borders...again the customers fault. Sorry Lenny, a board have a responsibility to run the company in a way to try to retain and acquire customers - our Board do not pursue this basic business model instead driving countless people away by a variety of actions. It is a nonsense to blame people for staying away when you do not know what they have done in the past, or what their reasons for staying away truly are.

 

"Some more than others"....I am happy to get into a p*ssing contest with you anytime mate about what I have contributed. And not just me thats really insulting to lots of true fans who dont go anymore.... Lianne MacDonald as one example. But I hate the good fan/bad fan/better fan debate...we are all just fans....I care so much about the club but I know of friends who have been bullied, shafted, I know of things that shouldnt have happened that did happen, I know of some competencies, and lots of incompetencies, I know that when you have someone whispering in board members ears that the fans are a bad lot then we have no future apart from one where GOOD FANS drift away and continue to drift away.

 

Your approach is to keep giving those people that hold their customers in such contempt custom and ego-stroking, by saying the alternative is too bad to contemplate - who is to say there is anything wrong with that view except it perpetuates the problems. My view is the future of Partick Thsitle would be better without the stench others have spoken about and greater supporter engagement would happen and crowds would gradually improve. We have tried fingers crossed hope and continuing to hand over the cash long enough and nothing changes, in fact it gets worse, so all I am saying is lets try a different approach. The great thing about Patick Thistle was never the board nor rarely the players, nor even the ground...the great thing was the soul of the club and that came from people like you and me.....and that soul has gone in recent years. I used to be proud to be a Partick Thistle fan, proud of our board, proud of every player no matter how limited his ability and proud of fellow fans...now there are some people who just embarrass me - at a board level in the main.

 

I'm guilty of one thing, I never made it clear who the "some more than others" comment was aimed at. It was aimed at the likes of cowan and hughes.

 

I think i've made it perfectly clear i understand why some fans stay away, even though they can go. I don't agree with it, i think it harms the club but i understand it. If you had read my comment in full you'll have seen my own father is one....sure not for the same reasons but he's one nonetheless. I'm not questionning what you or any of those who stay away have contributed to PTFC over the years. I just feel , rightly or wrongly, that we can bring better times to PTFC if we all work together as opposed to looking to pick fights with one another.

 

I'm hardly a regular at Firhill these days. I can't afford to go to every home game but I go when i can. I don't agree with a lot of what the board have done (though i do like Beattie and i think he is trying to improve things). I want hughes and cowan gone but i wont stop going to Firhill just to make that happen.

[kni]

My concern is that David Beattie could be ousted by the former directors who remain shareholders. It must be difficult for him to clear up their financial mess whilst they still control the club. We should be thankful that he is much more open and communicative than his predecessors. Next season will be very tough financially. The blame lies with those who racked up the huge debts. A lot of money was wasted during Dick Campbell's time at the club.

[McKennan]

Question I'd ask is "does he"?

 

Certainly an interested party in PropCo, but any suggestion of him being part of a plot to remove Jim Alexander is a bit wide of the mark given it was done at a shareholders' meeting. Allan could have had as much influence on that outcome as I could the destination of the next World Cup tournament.

 

Now Tom Hughes on the other hand... if his 1 million shareholding wasn't used to vote against Jim Alexander, then shares on the board were. Given his closeness to Beattie (remember they were the two who were in touch with the Jags Trust before the AGM) you do the maths.

 

Personally, I'm not interested in the director v director machinations that go on and seem to obsess people on this board. My fixation is who's calling the shots and it's getting harder all the time, as far as I can/can't see. Does Mr Allan have influence at Firhill? As he's a leading player in propco, the only business in the area that's got a snowball's chance in hell of making a profit, I'd say 'he does'.

[McKennan]

sorry think you have misinterpreted my post. I was asking a genuine question. Do you have any evidence to support that Billy Allan has bad intentions towards PTFC ? I've certainly not heard any but then there are plenty of others that are closer to the goings on at firhill than i am.

 

I don't doubt for a minute that Billy Allan has good intentions towards Thistle, but the club needs to be someone's priority and it's no-one's priority.