thistle4tw Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Says in the times that shaun Fraser has quit stenny loan for a chance at firhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Agreed! Give our own youngsters a chance (or two)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 He quit a few weeks back. Can't play until 1 January though due to terms of the loan agreement. I think his style will gives us an excellent option off the bench. Seems to be prepared to work hard in training and playing for the reserves to wait to get back into the team. Doesn't fancy going out on loan again this season. Good that he's showing a willingness to knuckle down at Firhill. PC Irons must have been running a very tight ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Are we seriously suggesting a guy who couldn't get a game for Stenny is the answer to our goalscoring problems? Â Don't get me wrong, I'd love him to do well for us but I don't think he is currently ready for our first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Are we seriously suggesting a guy who couldn't get a game for Stenny is the answer to our goalscoring problems? Â Don't get me wrong, I'd love him to do well for us but I don't think he is currently ready for our first team. Is Doolan? (No goals in over 2 months.) Â Is Elliott? (1 goal against a junior team, otherwise zilch in over 2 months.) Â Is Stewart? (When did he last score against anybody???) Â Is Dargo? (Hasn't played for God knows how long; wonder why he got freed again.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Is Doolan? (No goals in over 2 months.) Â Is Elliott? (1 goal against a junior team, otherwise zilch in over 2 months.) Â Is Stewart? (When did he last score against anybody???) Â Is Dargo? (Hasn't played for God knows how long; wonder why he got freed again.) Â Doolan has proven himself at this level and although out of form at present, has the best first touch of anyone at the club. Â Elliott has been lively in the last 2 games, he's an instinctive player and will improve. Â Stewart, the jury is still out on. Â I take it you weren't at the game on Sat becsuse Dargo was excellent. Â I'd play all of them ahead of Frazer at present. He couldn't get a game for STENNY. How could he be good enough for us at present? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistle4tw Posted December 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Doolan has proven himself at this level and although out of form at present, has the best first touch of anyone at the club. Â Elliott has been lively in the last 2 games, he's an instinctive player and will improve. Â Stewart, the jury is still out on. Â I take it you weren't at the game on Sat becsuse Dargo was excellent. Â I'd play all of them ahead of Frazer at present. He couldn't get a game for STENNY. How could he be good enough for us at present? He didn't gat a game for stenny because David irons preferred his normal strikers and did not give him a chance. Surely you saw him play for us. I'd give him a last 5 mins sub appearance On saturdayif we are winning comfortably. Edited December 7, 2011 by thistle4tw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 He didn't gat a game for stenny because David irons preferred his normal strikers and did not give him a chance. Surely you saw him play for us. I'd give him a last 5 mins sub appearance On saturdayif we are winning comfortably. Â I'm all for Frazer coming back and working hard to get back into the team. Â My problem is with threads like this that seem to suggest that he is the answer to all our striking problems. He isn't. He's an 18 year old with a bit of potential who, with the right coaching, could be a decent player for us in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Doolan has proven himself at this level and although out of form at present, has the best first touch of anyone at the club. Â --He only got to prove himself because he was given the chance after coming up from the juniors. Why don't you want to give Frazer the same chance? Â Elliott has been lively in the last 2 games, he's an instinctive player and will improve. Â --Lively, maybe. Scoring? Hardly. Frazer might be just as lively and even more effective, but he won't get the chance, if you have your way. Â Stewart, the jury is still out on. Â --Agreed. Â I take it you weren't at the game on Sat becsuse Dargo was excellent. Â --I was there. Dargo did a lot of running and was good at linking up. Didn't score. Who's to say that Frazer (who HAS scored when brought on as a sub) wouldn't do likewise? Â I'd play all of them ahead of Frazer at present. He couldn't get a game for STENNY. How could he be good enough for us at present? Â --Manager's preference. Doolan isn't starting for us at the moment, but you would STILL have him ahead of Frazer. Maybe Frazer should just pack it all in? Edited December 7, 2011 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jaggernaut, why are you putting pressure on an 18 year old as if he is the messiah?  McNamara has already stated that the guys that McCall gave games to at the tail end of last season were brought in too soon and will benefit from a season of coaching and playing for the reserves / u19's  If he's good enough, his time will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlock Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I may be wrong, but hasn't it been suggested young Fraser may have a penchant for the odd hamburger? Â Or more succinctly, he's becoming a bit of a pork-meister? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jaggernaut, why are you putting pressure on an 18 year old as if he is the messiah?  McNamara has already stated that the guys that McCall gave games to at the tail end of last season were brought in too soon and will benefit from a season of coaching and playing for the reserves / u19's  If he's good enough, his time will come. No pressure! Frazer has already shown that he can score at this level, so why not give him the chance now when our stikers are as dry as a you know what in a you know where? He's almost a year older and wiser (?), and certainly looked the part to me when I saw him at the tail end of last season. But then, I thought the same about Jamie Campbell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifu02348 Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I don't buy the whole thing give youth a chance thing. We'd get pumped every week. You hear these old form fans going on about it on phone in's. Yip, play steven lennon up front and he'll fire you into europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't buy the whole thing give youth a chance thing. We'd get pumped every week. You hear these old form fans going on about it on phone in's. Yip, play steven lennon up front and he'll fire you into europe. Oi, you've taken that too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ifu02348 Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Oi, you've taken that too far. Â That was actually poorly researched on my part. According to Wikipedia, its Fram Reykjavik and not rangers who will be lighting up europe with Steven Lennon's masterly skill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 No pressure! Frazer has already shown that he can score at this level, so why not give him the chance now when our stikers are as dry as a you know what in a you know where? He's almost a year older and wiser (?), and certainly looked the part to me when I saw him at the tail end of last season. But then, I thought the same about Jamie Campbell. Â Just out of interest Jagger, why do you feel (certainly that's how you come across), that just because the likes of Campbell and Fraser are not in the first team/squad regularly that there time at Firhill is up? I've no doubt the lads (all of the youngsters) will want first team football and that they will all be disappointed not to have featured more. Thing is it is not like Jackie has kept quiet on the subject. He has mentioned a few times how he wants to develop them in training. He wants to work on their mentality (and that of the entire squad). What's wrong with that? Also what's this thing about playing our own youngsters? Elliott, Sinclair, O'Donnell are all young. So we brought them in during the summer, but they are ours. I'm quite happy that our scouting system seems to be finding such players. All have taken a big step up in coming to the club. Its very rare that a player will just hit the ground running. I think Elliott is now suffering from scoring a couple of goals within 2 to 3 games of coming to the club. It was likely he would need to adjust and have to learn to play football at this level. Â Some wanted to see some more experience up front. We bring in Dargo and just because he hasn't scored in 1 start and 3 or 4 sub appearances, your questioning him now. I thought he had a very good game on Saturday. I asked you this on another thread, do you remember how many chances he or Elliott for that matter, had to score on Saturday? He'd one and it was created all by himself and he was so unlucky not to score from it. Â Most of the chances we had on Saturday fell to Cairney. If Dargo and Elliott's running off the ball hadn't been so good, Cairney wouldn't have had these chances. Â There is far more to forward play than simply scoring goals. Of course I want to see us score more, who doesn't, but I do think you are being over critical of the lads we have. Â Fraser needs to get back, work his ass off and show all the positive signs that he wants to develop. He has a future in the game. He like Bannigan, McBeth, Campbell, Stevenson, Burns, Lindsay, Scully could all be regulars in the Jags team in the coming months and years. If our manager, who played at the highest level, thinks they need some more time and development, then I think he's far better placed than you or I to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistle4tw Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Just out of interest Jagger, why do you feel (certainly that's how you come across), that just because the likes of Campbell and Fraser are not in the first team/squad regularly that there time at Firhill is up? I've no doubt the lads (all of the youngsters) will want first team football and that they will all be disappointed not to have featured more. Thing is it is not like Jackie has kept quiet on the subject. He has mentioned a few times how he wants to develop them in training. He wants to work on their mentality (and that of the entire squad). What's wrong with that? Also what's this thing about playing our own youngsters? Elliott, Sinclair, O'Donnell are all young. So we brought them in during the summer, but they are ours. I'm quite happy that our scouting system seems to be finding such players. All have taken a big step up in coming to the club. Its very rare that a player will just hit the ground running. I think Elliott is now suffering from scoring a couple of goals within 2 to 3 games of coming to the club. It was likely he would need to adjust and have to learn to play football at this level. Â Some wanted to see some more experience up front. We bring in Dargo and just because he hasn't scored in 1 start and 3 or 4 sub appearances, your questioning him now. I thought he had a very good game on Saturday. I asked you this on another thread, do you remember how many chances he or Elliott for that matter, had to score on Saturday? He'd one and it was created all by himself and he was so unlucky not to score from it. Â Most of the chances we had on Saturday fell to Cairney. If Dargo and Elliott's running off the ball hadn't been so good, Cairney wouldn't have had these chances. Â There is far more to forward play than simply scoring goals. Of course I want to see us score more, who doesn't, but I do think you are being over critical of the lads we have. Â Fraser needs to get back, work his ass off and show all the positive signs that he wants to develop. He has a future in the game. He like Bannigan, McBeth, Campbell, Stevenson, Burns, Lindsay, Scully could all be regulars in the Jags team in the coming months and years. If our manager, who played at the highest level, thinks they need some more time and development, then I think he's far better placed than you or I to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Just out of interest Jagger, why do you feel (certainly that's how you come across), that just because the likes of Campbell and Fraser are not in the first team/squad regularly that there time at Firhill is up? I've no doubt the lads (all of the youngsters) will want first team football and that they will all be disappointed not to have featured more. Thing is it is not like Jackie has kept quiet on the subject. He has mentioned a few times how he wants to develop them in training. He wants to work on their mentality (and that of the entire squad). What's wrong with that? Also what's this thing about playing our own youngsters? Elliott, Sinclair, O'Donnell are all young. So we brought them in during the summer, but they are ours. I'm quite happy that our scouting system seems to be finding such players. All have taken a big step up in coming to the club. Its very rare that a player will just hit the ground running. I think Elliott is now suffering from scoring a couple of goals within 2 to 3 games of coming to the club. It was likely he would need to adjust and have to learn to play football at this level. Â Some wanted to see some more experience up front. We bring in Dargo and just because he hasn't scored in 1 start and 3 or 4 sub appearances, your questioning him now. I thought he had a very good game on Saturday. I asked you this on another thread, do you remember how many chances he or Elliott for that matter, had to score on Saturday? He'd one and it was created all by himself and he was so unlucky not to score from it. Â Most of the chances we had on Saturday fell to Cairney. If Dargo and Elliott's running off the ball hadn't been so good, Cairney wouldn't have had these chances. Â There is far more to forward play than simply scoring goals. Of course I want to see us score more, who doesn't, but I do think you are being over critical of the lads we have. Â Fraser needs to get back, work his ass off and show all the positive signs that he wants to develop. He has a future in the game. He like Bannigan, McBeth, Campbell, Stevenson, Burns, Lindsay, Scully could all be regulars in the Jags team in the coming months and years. If our manager, who played at the highest level, thinks they need some more time and development, then I think he's far better placed than you or I to make that decision. I agree with all of that. One thing I have been critical of is that our midfielders haven't been creating all that many chances in the box for our strikers to have a go. Doolan in particular has been more or less limited to trying his luck with a couple of difficult headers in recent weeks. Hard to think of the last time he had a clear shot on goal. Yes, it would be good to see several of the youngsters you list becoming first team regulars, IF they're good enough. My worry is that Jackie's first instinct will be to try to pick up players from elsewhere and take a risk on them, rather than our own youths. Â Dargo's movement and control was impressive on Saturday, but again, only had one shot in the whole game. Doolan could have done the same. The problem is that not enough chances are being created, and most of those that are are coming from one man (Cairney). Sinclair frustratingly mis-hits or over-hits almost every cross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 I agree with all of that. One thing I have been critical of is that our midfielders haven't been creating all that many chances in the box for our strikers to have a go. Doolan in particular has been more or less limited to trying his luck with a couple of difficult headers in recent weeks. Hard to think of the last time he had a clear shot on goal. Yes, it would be good to see several of the youngsters you list becoming first team regulars, IF they're good enough. My worry is that Jackie's first instinct will be to try to pick up players from elsewhere and take a risk on them, rather than our own youths. Â Dargo's movement and control was impressive on Saturday, but again, only had one shot in the whole game. Doolan could have done the same. The problem is that not enough chances are being created, and most of those that are are coming from one man (Cairney). Sinclair frustratingly mis-hits or over-hits almost every cross. Â Totally agree about Sinclair. His passing and crossing needs to improve. I'm sure it will. What i'm not sure about is whether he will be a Jags player when it does. Â Remember after Saturday a place in the squad becomes available, as Hutton will be going back to Rangers. Perhaps, this could be an opportunity for Bannigan to stake a first team place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Totally agree about Sinclair. His passing and crossing needs to improve. I'm sure it will. What i'm not sure about is whether he will be a Jags player when it does. Â Remember after Saturday a place in the squad becomes available, as Hutton will be going back to Rangers. Perhaps, this could be an opportunity for Bannigan to stake a first team place. Was McNamare not wanting to get Huttons loan deal extended? Im sure I read somewhere he was trying to get it. Guess it all depends on whether Rangers let him or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Was McNamare not wanting to get Huttons loan deal extended? Im sure I read somewhere he was trying to get it. Guess it all depends on whether Rangers let him or not  Yeah he was mate. If he doesn't and there is currently nothing to suggest we will be able to, then it does free up a place in the squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 You can't extend an emergency loan, as far as I know. Anyway, I thought Jackie's plan was to play Paton in the Hutton role once the latter leaves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistle4tw Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Was McNamare not wanting to get Huttons loan deal extended? Im sure I read somewhere he was trying to get it. Guess it all depends on whether Rangers let him or not i dont rate bannigan to be honest. id rather give lindsay a chance hes not even had a sniff at first team football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 i dont rate bannigan to be honest. id rather give lindsay a chance hes not even had a sniff at first team football. In midfield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistle4tw Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 In midfield? i reckon lindsay based on reports from saints supporting pals could do a job there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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