Scotland: 2006 Uefa U-19 Runners-Up

[David Stevenson]

Was wondering about this crop of players in a "where are they now" train of thought after tonight's defeat in Belgium and the recent victories by the current U-19 side.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_UEFA_European_Under-19_Football_Championship

 

I hadn't realised that Scott Fox was part of that squad.

 

Steven Fletcher, Graham Dorrans and Lee Wallace (now languishing in SFL3) are the only ones who have gone on to gain a significant number of caps (i.e. more than 5). Then again, only two of the Spanish team have done the same: Pique and Mata (fair to say they are pretty special talents relative to their Scotland counterparts).

 

Hopefully some of today's U-19s will make the step up and improve on the success of their predecessors of 6 years ago. We need something to look forward to.....

[jagscast]

Very interesting. Great research, David.

 

Also, funny to see 4 Thistle players in there:

Jamie Adams, Ryan Conroy, Scott Fox and Graeme Dorrans!

[twinny]

Very interesting. Great research, David.

 

Also, funny to see 4 Thistle players in there:

Jamie Adams, Ryan Conroy, Scott Fox and Graeme Dorrans!

 

Greg Cameron got 3 games for us too.

 

And McGlinchey had a trial period with us.

 

I agree that it is a shame we perform so well at junior level but can't compete at the top senior level. Perhaps the final sentence of the second last paragraph in the OP answers this, at least partially, but if two or three players from every u19 squad on a two year cycle could develop into top top players, we'd have a very good international team.

Edited October 17, 2012 by twinny

[angry gaz]

I suspect players in Scotland don't develop their technique much more after that age because of the style of football we play in Scotland and especially because of the pressure cooker caused by a top division with a reatlive small number of teams.

Watching the game last night it is astonishing how bad our players' first touch is.Guys who are making thousands and thousands of pounds a week still cant trap a ball

You wonder if players like Jamie Adams, Ryan Conroy, Scott Fox and Graeme Dorrans grew up in a different football environment whattype of players they could have become.

The lack of basics coached at school and youth level is still a scandal too.

Personally I blame the Old Firm.

[gianlucatoni]

The lack of basics coached at school and youth level is still a scandal too.

 

Please don't fall for the easy option of blaming the schools - lazy comment.

 

Since the '80's there has been a reduction in the number of Glasga secondaries from 50 to 29 (or 30 if you count the Gaelic School). Only about a dozen schools actually have a league team in each age group - the rest of the schools enter a token side in a cup tie which is usually a one game per year commitment. During the same period competitive 11-a-side primary school football has bitten the dust in favour of 5's and 7's which is all very nice but transfer the kids onto a big pitch for 11's at the age of 12 and up and they don't have a bloody clue. You also have the fact that the kids today are not as fit and can barely raise a gallop on the field - it's quite depressing to watch.

 

As a teacher we yearly have to battle the total apathy of the kids who either have 'other things to do', 'play for a local team', 'can't be bothered getting up at 9am on a saturday' or the usual 'i don't have to come to the trials as i should have an automatic start in the first 11'. And if you start one as a sub or sub a teenager during the game you'd better be prepared for all hell to break loose.

 

Add into the mix the local teams who usually consist of a bunch od dads picking their own wee precious lads forst and cobbling a team together from the rest (while coaching badly), kids who think that 90 minutes dshould be their weekly commitment to the sport and don't train/practice at any other time, sit on their behinds and play xbox for hours on end, and it's an ever decreasing circle of talent.

[Trotter]

Imo the main problem in the Scottish game is the old firm.

 

In this particular crop of players you can perhaps point the finger directly at Celtic.

 

Fox, McGlinchy, Cuthbert, Ferry & Conroy all came through the Celtic youth system.

 

Fox spent 3 years at Celtic & grand total of 0 appearances for 1st team.

McGlinchy 4 years & 1 appearance for 1st team.

Cuthbert 5 years & 0 appearances for 1st team.

Ferry 5 years & 0 appearances for 1st team.

Conroy 6 years & 2 appearances for 1st team.

 

The only Rangers player was Brian Gilmour who had 4 years & no appearances.

 

There are plenty more examples in relatively successful u21 teams (as in got to the play offs) but on the whole these guys get nowhere near the old firm 1st team.

 

Steve 'Championship' Lennon being one. Young man with potential but thought he was dogs bollocks as a Rangers player & let it go to his head. Where is he now? Irish league.

 

We haven't qualified for a Euro u21 championship since 1996 yet successive u21 coaches pick old firm youngsters ahead of boys from ourselves, Livi, Falkirk etc who are playing first team football.

 

Take a look at last euro qualifier squad for u21s & I count 2 Celtic youngsters (would've been 3 but McGeoch injured) & 4 players who either play for or have been registered with Sevco FC in past year (would've been 5 but Grant Adam injured).

 

At that point, with exception possibly of Gregg Wylde, the rest haven't played 10 games between them for their first teams.

 

The pattern will continue to repeat itself though. Guys like our own Stephen O'Donnell went to Celtic from Aberdeen but was dumped after a couple of years probably because foreign imports make more money from selling shirts.

 

Kyle Hutton, who despite us being joint top of 1st division & pushing for promotion, would make our 1st team but isn't getting a game for a The Rangers FC struggling in the 3rd Div due to some Greek, Brazilian or French youngster! (My opinion him ahead of Hugh Murray but you get my point).

 

Celtic took Tony Watt from Airdrie, he got a game at start of season- due to injuries to everyone else- & was banging them in. What did Celtic do at transfer deadline day? Bring in 2 foreign strikers!

 

Anyone willing to take my bet that Tony Watt could end up as next Stevie Lennon?

 

Same applies to Sevco. They'll neve have a better opportunity to blood their young boys which may see them & Scottish national team benefit in future but they're still intent on bringing in the foreigners or buying guys like Templeton or donkey's like Kyle than do it!

 

Why spend millions looking at problems of grassroots etc when the pattern will continue with Old Firm.

 

They genuinely should be banned from having youth teams!!

 

Rant over.

[Meister Jag]

I suspect players in Scotland don't develop their technique much more after that age because of the style of football we play in Scotland and especially because of the pressure cooker caused by a top division with a reatlive small number of teams.

Watching the game last night it is astonishing how bad our players' first touch is.Guys who are making thousands and thousands of pounds a week still cant trap a ball

You wonder if players like Jamie Adams, Ryan Conroy, Scott Fox and Graeme Dorrans grew up in a different football environment whattype of players they could have become.

The lack of basics coached at school and youth level is still a scandal too.

Personally I blame the Old Firm.

 

Agree totally, for too long the Scottish game has been built on the system of feeding the so-called elite clubs; indeed, once upon a time most SPL clubs were happy to wait on the OF or top English clubs calling to buy their decent players. With their lack of ambition being determined by the need to survive from one year to the next. In truth, when I've seen good teams broken up I've always felt for their fans. Okay, just for a few seconds...

 

In terms of international football, we are barely able to field a team of players who play top level football week in, week out. Did I not hear a commentator last night saying that Alan Hutton had only played four starting games this season - and all for Scotland! At risk of sounding controversial, perhaps we should just accept that we're not very good and have perhaps punched above our weight in past years. To be brutally honest, I don't see anything good about our game at present and have little faith in our administrators who have no vision other than to survive from season-to-season.

 

In 2009 Henry McLeish's root and branch analysis of the game in Scotland suggested that we were about 2-years away from meltdown. From memory, he even commented on the state of the H**s (perilous state of finances in the game) and made mention of the dire consequences should Scotland not qualify for another major championship (he cited falling fan bases, number of kids playing etc). At the time I had a bit of a scoff at his report and thought that the big two would simply find a way of surviving and that the national team would lose a few win a few and just go round mangers as we have done. But, hate to say, Henry was maybe right. Oh, and I can't recall what recommendations in the McLeish report were taken up by the SFA and SPL. Anyone?

[Meister Jag]

.

 

Add into the mix the local teams who usually consist of a bunch od dads picking their own wee precious lads forst and cobbling a team together from the rest (while coaching badly), kids who think that 90 minutes dshould be their weekly commitment to the sport and don't train/practice at any other time, sit on their behinds and play xbox for hours on end, and it's an ever decreasing circle of talent.

 

As a parent, this was also my experience of Scottish amateur football. Local amateur teams were run by dads with chips on their shoulder as their kids had been on trial with SPL teams but then dropped. Teams were then formed around individual kids with a win at all costs mentality being adopted; bugger the skill level, the fun is in the win and happy to get rid of any kid who didn't fit in. I had a few years of this with a well known Lanarkshire 1st division outfit and was actually happy when my youngest told them he was chucking it to concentarte on his boxing career. (Cue phone call from club outlining how hard it was to make it in boxing and please reconsider!! At least in the ring his future is in his own hands [bad pun intended].)

[angry gaz]

Please don't fall for the easy option of blaming the schools - lazy comment.

 

 

As a teacher we yearly have to battle the total apathy of the kids who either have 'other things to do', 'play for a local team', 'can't be bothered getting up at 9am on a saturday' or the usual 'i don't have to come to the trials as i should have an automatic start in the first 11'. And if you start one as a sub or sub a teenager during the game you'd better be prepared for all hell to break loose.

 

I work for for the education dept and in schools and a few years ago did my goalkeeping coaching badge to help out with coaching in the school i was working in at the time.You're right about the apathy and fittness of school kids , it's shocking but having seen the way sports are taught and coached in schools I'd say football is by far the worst taught . Basketball, netball,l voleyball, badmington are all taught with kids begining with the basics and skills while so many periods of football are simply "there's a ball, away and play" There is coachin , and some very good coaching but no where near enough, the whole set up of PE teaching theory in classrooms now is taking time away from that ,whether teaching PE in a classroom is right or wrong I don't know but from what Ive seen there is no way enough actual coaching of basic skills taking place during the PE curriculum involving football.GCC missed a great opportunity to install smaller astroturf pitches in the primary and secondary schools when they refurbished the Glasgow schools over a decade ago and introduce proper stuctured coaching using smaller balls pitches and goals especially in the primary schools.Im not blaming the schools but the system the schools are operating under is is wrong.

[jagscast]

Best discussion on this forum for a long time, well done folks.

 

Although I now work in the complex ASN sector, I spent my early teaching years in mainstream primary and thoroughly enjoyed taking on the responsibility of various school football teams.

 

Gianluca Toni (the forum one) is spot on when he talks about the apathy and attitude of kids. Dropping a player from the starting line up or subbing them often resulted in a major huff, phonecalls from parents or the child resigning from the team (seriously).

 

I have to say though, one of the best young players I have seen had a superb attitude and was an excellent team player. He was also on Queens Park's books - full credit to their youth coaches. They had done an excellent job with this boy.

 

Also, my experience of working alongside SFA youth coaches was entirely positive. It's so much more than about the winning to them. We just need volunteer coaches at schools and small clubs to get their SFA badges and coach the way the SFA want them to.

[Armand2]

During the same period competitive 11-a-side primary school football has bitten the dust in favour of 5's and 7's which is all very nice but transfer the kids onto a big pitch for 11's at the age of 12 and up and they don't have a bloody clue. You also have the fact that the kids today are not as fit and can barely raise a gallop on the field - it's quite depressing to watch.

 

Good post on the whole but totally disagree with the point above. Smaller sided games for younger kids are infinitely more beneficial than punting them onto a full size pitch where they get completely lost. The Spanish have been doing it for years. Fast paced, smaller sided games where players will have more touches of the ball will improve technical proficiency. Barcelona's facilities include wee boxes where 3x3 and 4x4 training games are the norm.

 

~

 

The training methods in Scotland are stuck in the stone age. One of my mates coaches a boys team and I went along to one of their training sessions to help him out. Now, just a point before I go any further, the mate in question was pursued by Hibs to coach one of their youth sides and offered to put him through his A licence. In a session of just over an hour, they warmed up by running around the pitch numerous times for 10 minutes which is a) completely pointless and totally unrelated to football - when did you last see a player (apart from subs!) running around the edge of the pitch at a steady pace without the ball? They also had a running session in the middle which took up another 5 minutes and a jogging warm-down, again 5 minutes. So, as I said, out of a training session of probably 70 minutes, nearly 30% of it was spent doing an aerobic exercise without a ball in sight which is relatively useless for an anaerobic sport like football. The football coaching was also pretty poor with the majority of the boys standing about in lines waiting for a touch of the ball. There was another team training on the same pitch and their coach was implementing similar methods.

 

What has to change is the mentality. There's too much focus on winning, especially on younger players. I know, from experience, of coaches who lambast 8 year-olds for losing the ball, so much so that they don't want it back again and, when they do get it, are too terrified of doing anything creative with it. Up until 12 or 13, the focus should be on developing and teaching technique, not winning at all costs. From 13-16, start introducing tactical elements and begin to stress the importance of results but certainly not to the extent where it takes precedence over performance.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Armand2

[Jaggernaut]

Imo the main problem in the Scottish game is the old firm.

 

In this particular crop of players you can perhaps point the finger directly at Celtic.

 

Fox, McGlinchy, Cuthbert, Ferry & Conroy all came through the Celtic youth system.

 

Fox spent 3 years at Celtic & grand total of 0 appearances for 1st team.

McGlinchy 4 years & 1 appearance for 1st team.

Cuthbert 5 years & 0 appearances for 1st team.

Ferry 5 years & 0 appearances for 1st team.

Conroy 6 years & 2 appearances for 1st team.

 

The only Rangers player was Brian Gilmour who had 4 years & no appearances.

 

There are plenty more examples in relatively successful u21 teams (as in got to the play offs) but on the whole these guys get nowhere near the old firm 1st team.

 

Steve 'Championship' Lennon being one. Young man with potential but thought he was dogs bollocks as a Rangers player & let it go to his head. Where is he now? Irish league.

 

We haven't qualified for a Euro u21 championship since 1996 yet successive u21 coaches pick old firm youngsters ahead of boys from ourselves, Livi, Falkirk etc who are playing first team football.

 

Take a look at last euro qualifier squad for u21s & I count 2 Celtic youngsters (would've been 3 but McGeoch injured) & 4 players who either play for or have been registered with Sevco FC in past year (would've been 5 but Grant Adam injured).

 

At that point, with exception possibly of Gregg Wylde, the rest haven't played 10 games between them for their first teams.

 

The pattern will continue to repeat itself though. Guys like our own Stephen O'Donnell went to Celtic from Aberdeen but was dumped after a couple of years probably because foreign imports make more money from selling shirts.

 

Kyle Hutton, who despite us being joint top of 1st division & pushing for promotion, would make our 1st team but isn't getting a game for a The Rangers FC struggling in the 3rd Div due to some Greek, Brazilian or French youngster! (My opinion him ahead of Hugh Murray but you get my point).

 

Celtic took Tony Watt from Airdrie, he got a game at start of season- due to injuries to everyone else- & was banging them in. What did Celtic do at transfer deadline day? Bring in 2 foreign strikers!

 

Anyone willing to take my bet that Tony Watt could end up as next Stevie Lennon?

 

Same applies to Sevco. They'll neve have a better opportunity to blood their young boys which may see them & Scottish national team benefit in future but they're still intent on bringing in the foreigners or buying guys like Templeton or donkey's like Kyle than do it!

 

Why spend millions looking at problems of grassroots etc when the pattern will continue with Old Firm.

 

They genuinely should be banned from having youth teams!!

 

Rant over.

 

Not a rant, but an excellent analysis.

[Guy Incognito]

Was wondering about this crop of players in a "where are they now" train of thought after tonight's defeat in Belgium and the recent victories by the current U-19 side.

 

http://en.wikipedia....ll_Championship

 

I hadn't realised that Scott Fox was part of that squad.

 

Steven Fletcher, Graham Dorrans and Lee Wallace (now languishing in SFL3) are the only ones who have gone on to gain a significant number of caps (i.e. more than 5). Then again, only two of the Spanish team have done the same: Pique and Mata (fair to say they are pretty special talents relative to their Scotland counterparts).

 

Hopefully some of today's U-19s will make the step up and improve on the success of their predecessors of 6 years ago. We need something to look forward to.....

 

Aye, Fox was back-up keeper to Andy McNeil (last seen doing the rounds of seaside league clubs). I am pretty sure Robert Snodgrass was in that squad too.

[twinny]

I work for for the education dept and in schools and a few years ago did my goalkeeping coaching badge to help out with coaching in the school i was working in at the time.You're right about the apathy and fittness of school kids , it's shocking but having seen the way sports are taught and coached in schools I'd say football is by far the worst taught . Basketball, netball,l voleyball, badmington are all taught with kids begining with the basics and skills while so many periods of football are simply "there's a ball, away and play" There is coachin , and some very good coaching but no where near enough, the whole set up of PE teaching theory in classrooms now is taking time away from that ,whether teaching PE in a classroom is right or wrong I don't know but from what Ive seen there is no way enough actual coaching of basic skills taking place during the PE curriculum involving football.GCC missed a great opportunity to install smaller astroturf pitches in the primary and secondary schools when they refurbished the Glasgow schools over a decade ago and introduce proper stuctured coaching using smaller balls pitches and goals especially in the primary schools.Im not blaming the schools but the system the schools are operating under is is wrong.

 

From my memory of being school PE (I have an advanced higher in PE, but that doesn't mean much) and a three-day placement in a PE dept a couple of years ago when applying for PGCE courses which I didn't get into, football is a tricky sport to include in a school curriculum. It tends to be the less well behaved pupils (to put it mildly) that are good at football and this really puts off anyone else. The less well behaved pupils don't want to do drills or learn tactics, and will start arsing about if doing anything other than playing games, which is a shame.

 

Theory lessons in PE do address some important issues, but it really is incredibly basic as the level is aimed at less academically gifted at S-grade (questions are generally at the level, "what are the five aspects of physical fitness?"). For me, higher PE should help introduce some aspects of sport science for those who want to go on and study at university or college, so it is important to include theory lessons which will only take up about 1/5 of time spent in PE. There is teaching on tactics and strategy at higher level, however pupils are limited by the number of sports on offer. My higher included Basketball, Volleyball and Badminton. So we were taught the details of fast break and zone defence in basketball in excruciating detail (it was a mixed int 2 and higher class, so it was difficult for the teachers to get EVERYONE up to a passable level in only two strategies when dealing with such a mixed abilities class, never mind trying to explain other more complex strategies).

 

Back when I did higher there was a project as part of it (no longer the case) which you could focus on a sport of your choice by designing a training programme for yourself and monitoring your performance before, during and after and writing a "dissertation" on it. In theory this should have taught the class how to look at and improve their performance by identifying weaknesses that they could improve, however everybody made up their data and never did any training programme.

[ayrshire jag]

I spoke to David McParland at the Hall of Fame Dinner for 71 team at Thistle Hotel 2 years ago. He said that when working with Jinmmy Calderwood at Dunfermline he went out to Holland as a guest of Dutch team Jimmy C palyed for. The young guys trained for an hour in the morning and an hour after school and played at weekends. McParland said to Dutch guys that is a big commitment, Dutch replied "that's how we are successful as nation and you are not".

Sums it up lovely really.

 

At least now at Firhill we are doing the right thing and going with youth, trying to play good football, it is such a pleasure to watch these young guys in the first team, look at the average age on Sunday compared to the past when journeymen filled our team. Don't get me wrong I loved John Lambie and what he did for the club but I honestly feel if we are to have any future we must keep on the road of what we are doing. I also know that we now have 3 of the richest men ever at helm of the club and they are obviously helping Jackie out with a lot behind the scenes, re fitness training, sports psychologist and dietary requirements etc for the players, something we never had in the past. I always remember seeing the reserves and guys not picked for first team head down to Jaconellis pre match. Now on twiter Paul Paton and others talk of fines for not eating properly. Jackie and Sid played at the very top level and have brought a lot of good habits to the Jags. I can see why a lot of parents now want their sons to sign up with the Jags youth set up rather thjan a few years at Murray Park only to be binned for some second rate foreigner.

 

One final sobering thought, assume our average gate is 3,000 which means a total of 54,000 paying customes in a season, that equates to one home game for the Old Firm. It is a miracle that we and other clubs in Scotland can compete with Old Firm. I salute any success we have and also other teams who can win a trophy in Scotland the odds are heavily stacked against the rest of us. There can't be a more uneven playing field in football anywhere in the world our fans should do well to remember that.

 

AJ

[G SUS]

Aye, Fox was back-up keeper to Andy McNeil (last seen doing the rounds of seaside league clubs). I am pretty sure Robert Snodgrass was in that squad too.

 

Andy McNeil plays for Livingston, actually.

[gianlucatoni]

Good post on the whole but totally disagree with the point above. Smaller sided games for younger kids are infinitely more beneficial than punting them onto a full size pitch where they get completely lost. The Spanish have been doing it for years. Fast paced, smaller sided games where players will have more touches of the ball will improve technical proficiency. Barcelona's facilities include wee boxes where 3x3 and 4x4 training games are the norm.

 

 

have to disagree armand - i was a beneficiary of playing 11 a side since primary 3 - it's just that the primary pitches were much smaller full sized pitches are a nonstarter for that age group IMO too - our pitch was at st joes down on garscube road breaks my heart to see the state its in just now - main disagreement is they can play the small sided stuff and should do in training but when they arrive into first year of secondary they just don't have a clue positionally where they should be playing or how to hold a line - I'm still playing 11s in the amateurs some 37 years later.

 

one of the funniest situations arose a few years ago where the u16s team i'd entered in the league had lost about 10 games in a row in the run up to xmas - although showing a gradual improvement each time - they invited me to a january school meeting where they resigned en masse as they ' couldn't stand losing any more' - nae fight, nae dig, but apathy in abundance.

[Steven H]

I looked into getting qualified to coach kids teams a few years ago. While the SFA had some courses available and would accommodate, it meant travelling some distance to do it. Then there's the finance involved in starting a club, running it and dealing with the legal side (I.e disclosure checks on all/any volunteers. Registering and getting into a league etc). It's much more than a one man job, and finding volunteers to help out was not gona be easy. That's before u even factor in the difficulties outlined here re parents and the attitude of kids today.

 

My son is 7 and is now starting to take a real interest in playing football. He wants to join a team so I looked into it. The only boys club with a team for his age group us Airdrie Utd (boak). Even then, how do I know they are coaching him the right way? I think I have a fair idea of how young kids should be coached, much of it outlined here. Start with the basics, develop the ability to use both feet while doing so, develop skills and understanding about the game (how to play positions (all positions, no such thing as a midfielder or defender prior to the teenage years).

 

When at that point, start to play 5 and 7 aside games against team mates (really just a bunch of lads who go to the same place to learn how to play football) and then introduce them to playing 11aside games against other teams in pitches scaled to size for the age group (this would allow them to learn how to play as a team, play the positions properly (rotating the positions each play plays)).

 

Only when they get to under14/15 level should kids be playing on a full sized 11 aside pitch. By that time they will have developed physically, technically and have a greater understanding of how the game should be played. Also, by playing different positions when younger, and developing the ability to use both feet at the very basic level when first starting to play the game, the standard should be greatly improved.

 

For now I will coach my son at the basics stage, using both feet, knowing what part of the foot to use for specific passes/shots/skills and how to tackle...and how to enjoy playing. You know what they say, 'those who can, do. Those who can't (me) teach'

[twinny]

have to disagree armand - i was a beneficiary of playing 11 a side since primary 3 - it's just that the primary pitches were much smaller full sized pitches are a nonstarter for that age group IMO too - our pitch was at st joes down on garscube road breaks my heart to see the state its in just now - main disagreement is they can play the small sided stuff and should do in training but when they arrive into first year of secondary they just don't have a clue positionally where they should be playing or how to hold a line - I'm still playing 11s in the amateurs some 37 years later.

 

one of the funniest situations arose a few years ago where the u16s team i'd entered in the league had lost about 10 games in a row in the run up to xmas - although showing a gradual improvement each time - they invited me to a january school meeting where they resigned en masse as they ' couldn't stand losing any more' - nae fight, nae dig, but apathy in abundance.

 

Regarding your first paragraph, it is important to teach ball control and passing at a young age and players get more touches in small sided games. This is what they do in the Netherlands and they have been producing better players both in terms of skill and tactical ability for a very long time. We used to produce skillful players but children used to be happy enough to spend hours and hours playing with a football in the park with their mates, now they play football on the xbox with their mates. Football is generally banned from school playgrounds too. I'm sure I've heard of former footballers talked about hitting a ball off of a wall with their bad foot for hours or similar stories, something I couldn't imagine a child doing now (or even when I was growing up). The knowledge and awareness to play 11 a side can come progressively through the secondary school years.

 

The second paragraph may help explain why 11 a side isn't useful for schoolchildren. In games that last 90 minutes they won't play many games and smaller players will almost always lose, causing children to lose interest. There obviously needs to be a compromise between non-competitive and competitive games as children want to win but at the same time encouraging win at all costs can limit learning of skills or tactics. If they were to mainly play fives or sevens, you can invite several teams along and play mini-tournaments every other weekend.

 

Saying that, I do agree with the final sentence. I've played for many rubbish water polo teams, as a teenager I think the senior team I played for maybe won one game in about five years, some games were close, some games we lost by 30 goals but I still challenged myself to play better next time, to reflect on my performance and learn what to do better. I'd be playing for Scotland now if I wasn't so incredibly slow at swimming (even the fat goalie I was in the u18 squad with was faster than me).

[jagfox]

From what I've heard a lot of kids who are with other teams outwith their school team choose not to play for their school team thus watering down the school standard even further.

Some very good posts and it would appear this is the level where we begin falling down at.

[Jaggernaut]

From what I've heard a lot of kids who are with other teams outwith their school team choose not to play for their school team thus watering down the school standard even further.

Some very good posts and it would appear this is the level where we begin falling down at.

 

Outwith: a brilliant Scottish word. Usually translated as "outside" (not quite accurate), or "elsewhere than" (clumsy). I love it.

[Diego]

Outwith: a brilliant Scottish word.

I wholeheartedly agree. I never even realised it was a Scottish word until I was well into my twenties. It makes perfect sense to me but seems to baffle most Englishmen.

[chunky jag]

Was thinking of this team the other day, only players I could remember were Dorrans and the big centre half Cuthbert.

 

 

 

The biggest frustration for me the other night which someone has already commented on is the poor first touch and overall control. I watch guys like James Morrison play in the premiership, and West Brom have had a good season passing and moving, scored some lovely goals with one-twos etc, and he's been at the heart of everything they do, but the minute he's in a Scotland jersey, the first touch goes to pot. Even players like Maloney who we'd think of as one of our technically better players, was poor in possession. No midfielder comfortable on the ball pulling the strings like Witsel was, thought perhaps Adam would have been that player for us but it looks like his Blackpool career was a false dawn.

[Jaggernaut]

Funnily enough, at Morton the other week I noticed three of our players trap balls that came to them from high and a fair distance. I was pretty impressed with their skill!

[jagfox]

Funnily enough, at Morton the other week I noticed three of our players trap balls that came to them from high and a fair distance. I was pretty impressed with their skill!

Indeed, O'Donnell's flick over his head and control was sublime. Also our goal on Sunday was a thing of beauty. We have played some great stuff this season compared to some games I've viewed from games at a higher level.

In Jackie I trust.