Jhs Fans And Season Ticket Holders.. Your Views?

[Jaggernaut]

I don't know, I think evacuation requires leaving the stadium, ie through the corridors to the street as opposed to out onto the pitch. I'm sure that's the case from discussions I had years ago with the club.

 

I don't know either. But I'd think that in case of an internal fire or something like that then the first aim would be to get people out of the stand, which in most cases would mean onto the pitch, from where they could easily be evacuated onto the street. Would they really be required to descend into smoke-filled corridors or stairwells?

If so, then I'd rather do it my own way in the case of an emergency!

Edited May 15, 2014 by Jaggernaut

[potty trained]

Oh I'm not arguing with common sense, more to do with what they have to fill out in a box, if you know what I mean.

 

I don't think it's graded on a seat to pitch time, instead a seat to street evacuation time, across all stadia.

[Jaggernaut]

A further reflection on my idea of converting the old "covered enclosure" in front of the main stand into the new shed area: in my post above I suggested putting in several rows of seats. But as standing in the north stand is tolerated, the new main stand "seats" could really just be 7-8 tiers of terraced concrete steps, topped with a wooden or plastic "seat" in the cheapest and simplest sense (i.e. no seat backs required; bench style only). This would further cut the cost of making it into a good alternative for the shed (an outdated term, I think. I now prefer the famous "north stand").

[Trotter]

Here's an idea for "refurbishment" of the main stand, which would make it much more attractive to me:

 

1) Install several rows of seats going up from pitch level to the top of the wall that separates the front of the "enclosure" from the current front seats of the stand. That way the supporters would have the option of getting a full, unimpeded view of the length of the pitch. They'd be right on top of the action (and right behind the dugouts, Mr. Chairman), and the crowd and stadium would look better on tv when filmed from the JH stand. This could be done at both north and city ends, with supporters at both ends and going back into the central sections of the main stand, where the view is less restricted. Incidentally, this would also increase the seating capacity of the stadium by I reckon around 1,000. It would not cost a fortune.

 

2) During matches open the old tunnel door to allow supporters in the main stand access to the Aitken Suite toilets, if they desire to use them. Of course what currently passes for the main stand toilets would also be available. Sure, this would require some stewarding inside the AS during matches, and the main entrance closed (but manned throughout in case of emergency). But that's not a big problem.

 

It seems to me that the board (and maybe the supporters) need to come up with some out-of-the-box thinking on this. My idea would require some modest outlays and might be a positive move. No doubt I've overlooked some potential "negatives", but debate is required.

 

Here's another thought rather than an idea.

 

What constitutes a safe standing area? The Enclosure?

 

If there was a fire then surely you get onto the pitch easily enough from there if you couldn't get out onto Firhill Rd.

 

It may be that the current ST holders in NS can't all get in there right enough...

[Jaggernaut]

Here's another thought rather than an idea.

 

What constitutes a safe standing area? The Enclosure?

 

If there was a fire then surely you get onto the pitch easily enough from there if you couldn't get out onto Firhill Rd.

 

It may be that the current ST holders in NS can't all get in there right enough...

 

Both ends of the Enclosure could easily accommodate the current north stand crowd. The problem is that the steps that are currently in the enclosure hardly rise at all, meaning that people several "layers" behind the front can't see all that much of what's going on on the pitch. That's why I suggested installing either new steps (if standing only were permitted), or steps that are equivalent to "seats," allowing flexibility between sitting and standing.). The club now have 3 months to persuade people that there are real positives to switching to the main stand. I don't think the Sky tv up until 2.30 pm is going to do the trick. But some serious redevelopment of the Enclosure so that it merges better with the main stand would do it for me.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Jaggernaut

[Willjag]

Is the enclosure not used for disabled fans when Celtic occupy the North Stand? Where would you put them Jaggernaut?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Here's an idea for "refurbishment" of the main stand, which would make it much more attractive to me:

 

1) Install several rows of seats going up from pitch level to the top of the wall that separates the front of the "enclosure" from the current front seats of the stand. That way the supporters would have the option of getting a full, unimpeded view of the length of the pitch. They'd be right on top of the action (and right behind the dugouts, Mr. Chairman), and the crowd and stadium would look better on tv when filmed from the JH stand. This could be done at both north and city ends, with supporters at both ends and going back into the central sections of the main stand, where the view is less restricted. Incidentally, this would also increase the seating capacity of the stadium by I reckon around 1,000. It would not cost a fortune.

 

2) During matches open the old tunnel door to allow supporters in the main stand access to the Aitken Suite toilets, if they desire to use them. Of course what currently passes for the main stand toilets would also be available. Sure, this would require some stewarding inside the AS during matches, and the main entrance closed (but manned throughout in case of emergency). But that's not a big problem.

 

It seems to me that the board (and maybe the supporters) need to come up with some out-of-the-box thinking on this. My idea would require some modest outlays and might be a positive move. No doubt I've overlooked some potential "negatives", but debate is required.

 

I've long thought that access from the Aitken Suite to and fro the Main Stand would be ideal for our less able and more elderly supporters. But that's another issue for another day. .

[La Scimmia Rossa]

Ian, your stance is that you will no longer attend home games if the fans are moved from the North Stand. You have said that you will not entertain any other possibility.Therefore i don't see how you can attend theFederation meeting.

 

Your presence will be an impediment to any compromise solution (in my opinion). The only alternative would be to attend, put forward your view and then remove yourself from the meeting when it moves on to the discussion of alternatives. Since you have said you are happy to stand aside, i'm assuming this won't be a great hardship anyway?

 

Hopefully we can get a way forward but if supporters are really intent on not attending games over this, it's a sad day. It's also a strange message to give Archie and the team. "We support you 100%...but only from one part of the stadium and away games".

 

Thanks for the kind words Winter. I would have said more Quinton Jacobs than Chic Charnley. Poor in the tackle, shoddy work rate, but scored the odd goal direct from a corner kick...

Edited May 15, 2014 by La Scimmia Rossa

[ian_mac]

Ian, your stance is that you will no longer attend home games if the fans are moved from the North Stand. You have said that you will not entertain any other possibility.Therefore i don't see how you can attend theFederation meeting.

 

Your presence will be an impediment to any compromise solution (in my opinion). The only alternative would be to attend, put forward your view and then remove yourself from the meeting when it moves on to the discussion of alternatives. Since you have said you are happy to stand aside, i'm assuming this won't be a great hardship anyway?

 

Hopefully we can get a way forward but if supporters are really intent on not attending games over this, it's a sad day. It's also a strange message to give Archie and the team. "We support you 100%...but only from one part of the stadium and away games".

Colin, you really are rolling back the years here. You were a troll before the term had even been coined.

 

 

Great to have you back.

 

Really appreciate your input, but I'm afraid your attempts at stirring the pot will have to be taken elsewhere to find any success.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

Ian this thread was started as a question to JH season ticket holders. Over the years, i've had a season ticket more often than not since around 1985. Like others, i was one of the fans who went into debt to pay for the original two year season ticket to help pay for the stand to be built. I have two season tickets and plan to take a third for next season. Like others, i put other money into the club in the way of sponsorship and contributions to fund raising. Therefore i feel i am perfectly entitled to an opinion. Not more than anyone else, but certainly an equal voice.

 

I'm not sure putting forward a reasonable point of view, which differs from yours, makes me a troll or someone "stirring the pot". I'll leave it for others to decide whether that is the case.

 

If you are unable to indulge in a debate (and i do appreciate it's an emotive one) without resorting to name calling and insulting people who hold a differing view, then i think all of the fans-not just those in the NS-should be concerned about what role you'll play in the meeting with the club. It's clearly not going to be the role of someone looking for compromise or a way forward, is it?

 

We need a collaboration and open mindedness, not brinkmanship before the discussions have gotten underway. You've clearly got a lot to add to the discussions and are more informed than most but that will all be lost if you just turn up stamping your feet. It will also cloud the debate for others.

Edited May 15, 2014 by La Scimmia Rossa

[ian_mac]

Ian this thread was started as a question to JH season ticket holders. Over the years, i've had a season ticket more often than not since around 1985. Like others, i was one of the fans who went into debt to pay for the original two year season ticket to help pay for the stand to be built. I have two season tickets and plan to take a third for next season. Like others, i put other money into the club in the way of sponsorship and contributions to fund raising. Therefore i feel i am perfectly entitled to an opinion. Not more than anyone else, but certainly an equal voice.

 

I'm not sure putting forward a reasonable point of view, which differs from yours, makes me a troll or someone "stirring the pot". I'll leave it for others to decide whether that is the case.

 

If you are unable to indulge in a debate (and i do appreciate it's an emotive one) without resorting to name calling and insulting people who hold a differing view, then i think all of the fans-not just those in the NS-should be concerned about what role you'll play in the meeting with the club. It's clearly not going to be the role of someone looking for compromise or a way forward, is it?

 

We need a collaboration and open mindedness, not brinkmanship before the discussions have gotten underway. You've clearly got a lot to add to the discussions and are more informed than most but that will all be lost if you just turn up stamping your feet. It will also cloud the debate for others.

Hi Colin

 

Really appreciate your advice and I will certainly take it on board.

[Norgethistle]

My Dad a ST holder in the JHS (R114) thinks the idea is ludicrous to move the NS, and to quote him "What the hell is going on in that board room"

[Alan Hansen]

My Dad a ST holder in the JHS (R114) thinks the idea is ludicrous to move the NS, and to quote him "What the hell is going on in that board room"

 

My Dad and I in row L and we think the same

[Shuggie]

What exactly would be needed in the way of Main Stand improvements to accommodate those fans who love the North Stand?

 

Could a prioritised list be compiled and presented to the Club? ... And a time schedule agreed for such improvements?

 

PS We should also seek assurances that no repeat of this sort of fiasco should ever happen again.

[yoda-jag]

What exactly would be needed in the way of Main Stand improvements to accommodate those fans who love the North Stand?

 

Could a prioritised list be compiled and presented to the Club? ... And a time schedule agreed for such improvements?

 

PS We should also seek assurances that no repeat of this sort of fiasco should ever happen again.

 

walls at back will need to be increased in height for flags to fit.

each end of stand needs opened up or fitted with translucent sheeting ..... roof needs changed from pitch to cantilever (to let more light in as it is a dark hole compared to north stand currently, and to ensure projection of singing/acoustics is maximised)

removal of pillars

more space between the seats, and rows of seats that run down to the pitchlevel.

if archie really wants us behind him backing him, then singers will need to be situated right behind him ..... that's in middle of stand, and not in a corner (but that would mean ejecting the directors ..... hold on a minute, i'm beginning to come round to this idea (if the other improvements i've listed here are made) )

[Ruchillnomore]

Whilst I agree the facilities in the main stand should/must be upgraded I dont think for someone such as myself thats the issue. I enjoy the North Stand and have done so over the last 2 years I dont want to move to the Main Stand as I enjoy the Match day experience where I am. I have been in the Main stand twice this season and it is not a patch on the North stand.

 

I am sure those who are so vociferous about their thoughts on staying in the Noth Stand are more than intelligent enough to put their points across without resorting to the verge of being militant. However lets not cloud the issue there has been no justifiable reason for moving the fans apart from the hassle of administration but I have no doubt since the timing of the last statement and the timing of the meeting the board will have come up with a variety of reasons that have been factored in after the event.

 

In an earlier post the word compromise was used and directed at peoples inability to compromise if they go with a rigid agenda but correct me if I am wrong but the first agenda was started by the board and their actions when announcing or really the underhand way they dealt with it. I am all for compromise when compromise is needed however there was no reason financially for the board to come to this decision. Can we not agree that the facilities in the Main Stand should have been brought up to scratch at the start of this season and not used as an enticement again as part of an agenda by the board. Why dont we call it as it is...... an utter shambles at a time when the office phone/email system should be red hot with people looking for season tickets not complaints.

 

If someone wants to go to the meeting and insist that we must saty in the Noth Stand then you have my vote... Compromise ???whats next pander to the old firm........ oh thats right we have already done that

[buchanio]

thi guys, im a JH season ticket holder and here is my view.

The real problem here is we dont, like the other top end teams in the SPL have a segregated "ugly sisters" stand to maximise income for between 2 - 6 games per season depending on cups etc. The solution imo is to stick the OF in the full JHS stand which offers 6000 easily accessible and segregated seats. The jags fans can relocate for these occasions and be easily accommodated in the rest of the ground. Personally id charge the OF a premium price for this privilege and we take the 150k and move on.

lets enhance the main stand as described in posts above. if we ever have the need thereafter for more capacity we build an OF stand, similar to Well, killy, hibs, hearts, dons etc at the city end.

im sure we can all reasonably meet agreement for the above option. I for one hate taking the kids to these games anyway as they OF bring a nasty atmosphere to the stadium. I understand the need to find a solution and im sure compromise can be found.

[javeajag]

Ian this thread was started as a question to JH season ticket holders. Over the years, i've had a season ticket more often than not since around 1985. Like others, i was one of the fans who went into debt to pay for the original two year season ticket to help pay for the stand to be built. I have two season tickets and plan to take a third for next season. Like others, i put other money into the club in the way of sponsorship and contributions to fund raising. Therefore i feel i am perfectly entitled to an opinion. Not more than anyone else, but certainly an equal voice.

 

I'm not sure putting forward a reasonable point of view, which differs from yours, makes me a troll or someone "stirring the pot". I'll leave it for others to decide whether that is the case.

 

If you are unable to indulge in a debate (and i do appreciate it's an emotive one) without resorting to name calling and insulting people who hold a differing view, then i think all of the fans-not just those in the NS-should be concerned about what role you'll play in the meeting with the club. It's clearly not going to be the role of someone looking for compromise or a way forward, is it?

 

We need a collaboration and open mindedness, not brinkmanship before the discussions have gotten underway. You've clearly got a lot to add to the discussions and are more informed than most but that will all be lost if you just turn up stamping your feet. It will also cloud the debate for others.

 

Spot on

[lady-isobel-barnett]

PS We should also seek assurances that no repeat of this sort of fiasco should ever happen again.

 

I think that's stretching it, Shug. Unless you're referring to the Firhill version of "never again". I estimate that's the equivalent of two years max and now I'm stretching it.

[Dug1e]

jhs here but fully behind the northies. In the club statement they said Archie felt home games were like away ones. simply switch the dugouts over to the JHS

 

see it has already been suggested.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Dug1e

[Blackpool Jags]

Ian, your stance is that you will no longer attend home games if the fans are moved from the North Stand. You have said that you will not entertain any other possibility.Therefore i don't see how you can attend theFederation meeting.

 

Your presence will be an impediment to any compromise solution (in my opinion). The only alternative would be to attend, put forward your view and then remove yourself from the meeting when it moves on to the discussion of alternatives. Since you have said you are happy to stand aside, i'm assuming this won't be a great hardship anyway?

 

Hopefully we can get a way forward but if supporters are really intent on not attending games over this, it's a sad day. It's also a strange message to give Archie and the team. "We support you 100%...but only from one part of the stadium and away games".

 

Thanks for the kind words Winter. I would have said more Quinton Jacobs than Chic Charnley. Poor in the tackle, shoddy work rate, but scored the odd goal direct from a corner kick...

 

Hello Colin, good to hear from you on here again.

 

May I respectfully disagree with you on your point about Ian's stance at the meeting? There's an assumption, generated by DB, that the sole purpose of the meeting is to reach a compromise. I don't believe for a minute that anyone attending the meeting on behalf of the rest of the fans need either be open to compromise or not bother attending; or, as you suggested, say your bit then leave.

 

Fact is (going by the volume of posts on this forum), that virtually every fan is against the move to relocate us to the MS; the online petitions back this up. In my view, the correct position for fans' reps attending the meeting is to stick to this and fight the corner of 90 odd % of Thistle fans who are diametrically opposed to the move and with very very good reason. We've already established that there is no overwhelming rationale for the move - neither business nor logistical. It would be wrong, in my opinion, to attend the meeting then leave after a few minutes, or stay and be sucked into a meaningless, unjustifiable compromise which would leave the fans vulnerable to the next whim of the board.

 

It's been said copiously on here, but worth repeating: we, the fans, ARE the club and without those fans the club is nothing. The Board does not have any right to make agreements with the fan base only to discard them on a whim. It is therefore imperative, in my view, that our fans' reps attend the meeting for its duration and seek to get the board to retract their decision; all the arguments are on our side. If the board elect to exercise their prerogative and refuse to back down then they really are playing with fire. Our reps should not retreat in any way from the backing they have from the huge majority of us, nor should should they be made to feel they're only there to seek some mythical middle ground.

 

Just how I see it.

[ScottyDFA]

walls at back will need to be increased in height for flags to fit.

each end of stand needs opened up or fitted with translucent sheeting ..... roof needs changed from pitch to cantilever (to let more light in as it is a dark hole compared to north stand currently, and to ensure projection of singing/acoustics is maximised)

removal of pillars

more space between the seats, and rows of seats that run down to the pitchlevel.

if archie really wants us behind him backing him, then singers will need to be situated right behind him ..... that's in middle of stand, and not in a corner (but that would mean ejecting the directors ..... hold on a minute, i'm beginning to come round to this idea (if the other improvements i've listed here are made) )

 

Out of likes for the day...

 

[Jaggernaut]

Is the enclosure not used for disabled fans when Celtic occupy the North Stand? Where would you put them Jaggernaut?

 

Yes, there are a handful of wheelchair users and their companions in the north end of the enclosure. I don't see why the space that they require could not be maintained. At modern grounds like Forthbank and Livi, there is a wide space between the first row of seats and the wall for exactly that.

[Jaggernaut]

walls at back will need to be increased in height for flags to fit.

each end of stand needs opened up or fitted with translucent sheeting ..... roof needs changed from pitch to cantilever (to let more light in as it is a dark hole compared to north stand currently, and to ensure projection of singing/acoustics is maximised)

removal of pillars

more space between the seats, and rows of seats that run down to the pitchlevel.

if archie really wants us behind him backing him, then singers will need to be situated right behind him ..... that's in middle of stand, and not in a corner (but that would mean ejecting the directors ..... hold on a minute, i'm beginning to come round to this idea (if the other improvements i've listed here are made) )

 

In other words, what's needed is a new stand!

[yoda-jag]

Out of likes for the day...

 

 

me too ..... mr blackpools post is certainly deserving of one if i had any left. particularily the emboldened parts

v v v v v v v v v v v v v v

Hello Colin, good to hear from you on here again.

 

May I respectfully disagree with you on your point about Ian's stance at the meeting? There's an assumption, generated by DB, that the sole purpose of the meeting is to reach a compromise. I don't believe for a minute that anyone attending the meeting on behalf of the rest of the fans need either be open to compromise or not bother attending; or, as you suggested, say your bit then leave.

 

Fact is (going by the volume of posts on this forum), that virtually every fan is against the move to relocate us to the MS; the online petitions back this up. In my view, the correct position for fans' reps attending the meeting is to stick to this and fight the corner of 90 odd % of Thistle fans who are diametrically opposed to the move and with very very good reason. We've already established that there is no overwhelming rationale for the move - neither business nor logistical. It would be wrong, in my opinion, to attend the meeting then leave after a few minutes, or stay and be sucked into a meaningless, unjustifiable compromise which would leave the fans vulnerable to the next whim of the board.

 

It's been said copiously on here, but worth repeating: we, the fans, ARE the club and without those fans the club is nothing. The Board does not have any right to make agreements with the fan base only to discard them on a whim. It is therefore imperative, in my view, that our fans' reps attend the meeting for its duration and seek to get the board to retract their decision; all the arguments are on our side. If the board elect to exercise their prerogative and refuse to back down then they really are playing with fire. Our reps should not retreat in any way from the backing they have from the huge majority of us, nor should should they be made to feel they're only there to seek some mythical middle ground.

 

Just how I see it.

 

 

In other words, what's needed is a new stand!

 

you could be right. how much do you think it would cost?

i guess it's either that, or stick the singers in another stand of a structure and layout like i've suggested.

like the one they are in already in even?!!.

if it ain't broke .....

Edited May 16, 2014 by yoda-jag