Can I Be The First To Say.....

[Third Lanark]

Is that The Monkey Red boycotting like he did under the Campbell era to come out when/if we stay up to tell us 'get it up ye'?

 

Still waiting for his answer to how the 2 up front demonstrates how the manager right not to play it but guess because it doesn't suit his agenda I'll not hear anything.

 

I wouldn't compare DC to AA in anyway. I'm merely saying that no matter how bad things were during his reign we never had players chuck it on the park.

 

They weren't the best, & took a few almost deserved hammerings, I agree 100%, but don't recall any games we chucked it.

 

Unlike this squad with their top 6 potential & by all accounts we're all in agreement that they're the best squad assembled at Firhill in the last 30 years?

 

The same way as Dickie boy hopeless, Collins hopeless, Whyte/Britton hopeless but the BoD left it too late to get rid, I hope the decision to keep AA doesn't backfire on us.

 

If we go down, I can see a lost generation of fans. Gates down as it is for a variety of reasons but when the product as poor as it's been over past few months, it's hard to entice folk to pay £20+ of their hard earned cash to watch an SPL game.

 

What makes folk think they'll pay £15+ to watch a first division game? Product will be even worse.

 

I realise changing manager doesn't always mean a turn around in fortunes but, as hypothetical as this us at the moment, a defeat in each of the next 2 games leaves us where...?

 

There were some folk on here Sat night saying they can no longer defend the indefensible that are now, rightly or wrongly as their opinion, defending the manager.

 

Serious question. Hypothetical I know.

 

We lose our next 2 games... What then?

 

a- Go with the flow & accept what may well be inevitable consequences as in play off/relegation?

 

b- Or look at replacing the manager?

 

The last 5 games haven't been great but on the face of it, things haven't got any better since we went a good few games in Nov/Dec without even a shot on target.

 

Those who think that AA is the man to lead us to greater things have more confidence in him than me & by the looks of Saturday, more confidence than his players have in him.r

BGM I remember several games under DC where we looked like we had chucked it.

Against Gretna the 6-0, 6-1 and 4-0 nil defeats spring to mind. I don't buy into the they had more money because plenty of part teams like Forfar were able to beat them

Also the 5-1 and 4-0 defeats by st Johnstone at firhill.

The 4-0 defeat by Clyde

Even the 2-0 defeat in the quarter final of the Scottish cup by Dunfermline who were marooned at the bottom of the premier league. Dc said before the game we were going out to frustrate the pars but they scored in the first 5 minutes. We brought through a magnificent sized support that day and the only memorable thing we saw was the size of Barry smiths waistline. We didn't even have a shot on goal.

I do agree though that half the players looked like they had chucked it on Saturday also and that is unacceptable

[Barney Rubble]

Calm down dear. If you can't stand the heat, stay out the kitchen. Away to watch the CL.

 

There's no need for that Lindau.

 

As has been said before, we all want the Jags to do well but there are way too many Nazis on here who can't take an alternative opinion to their own.

 

Everyone (including yourself, Tom Hosie and La Scimmia Rossa who have all been 'overly opinionated' to put it politely) should chill out, and learn to debate in a constructive spirit and can the insults and sarcasm.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

You are the one that seemed to make an issue of a poster making an inaccurate prediction.

 

You are the one that thought it noteworthy. Why single that individual out?

 

And, of course, this type of forum is the type of place to debate the performance of the manager and indeed all aspects of how the Club is run.

 

You and your friend The Cup (see I can make that type of comment too) don't appear to like being challenged too closely almost to the degree that you feel you are getting picked on. Well, aww diddums. You fair dish it out. You can take some back.

 

Absolutely.

 

Don't you worry about me sweetheart, I can take it!!

[Dark Passenger]

there are way too many Nazis on here who can't take an alternative opinion to their own.

 

You know when you've been Godwin'd.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

BGM I remember several games under DC where we looked like we had chucked it.

Against Gretna the 6-0, 6-1 and 4-0 nil defeats spring to mind. I don't buy into the they had more money because plenty of part teams like Forfar were able to beat them

Also the 5-1 and 4-0 defeats by st Johnstone at firhill.

The 4-0 defeat by Clyde

Even the 2-0 defeat in the quarter final of the Scottish cup by Dunfermline who were marooned at the bottom of the premier league. Dc said before the game we were going out to frustrate the pars but they scored in the first 5 minutes. We brought through a magnificent sized support that day and the only memorable thing we saw was the size of Barry smiths waistline. We didn't even have a shot on goal.

I do agree though that half the players looked like they had chucked it on Saturday also and that is unacceptable

 

Fair enough TL, I thought we just looked like a shambles.

 

Think maybe towards the end of DC tenure a lot of his players looked as though they'd chucked it & that was possibly the final nail in his coffin so to speak.

 

Was hard to differentiate which was players chucking it & poor management...

 

 

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

Show me "the paper"!!!

 

Albert Craig in our second season in the prem scored 14 goals from midfield. Roddy Grant, 10 years in the game & already a legend at St.J, 13. Davie Irons started the season on the back of a 10 goal return. Nelson in goal ousting our record signing Andy Murdoch. Gerry Britton had also signed for a similar fee from smetic. Ian cameron over 100 appearances for st midden , a cup semi-final goal for aberdeen and only dropped from the final through injury. and of course... Chico.... Ray Farningham won championships, played at hampden in a semi , with forfar, prem experience at motherwell dungfermline(?)...george shaw.... paul kinaird....

 

We now have a majoritively young squad still on the up with a few new additions adding some relative experience.

 

On paper, who'd have thought that last years runners up would be struggling so much this season that their manager chucks it as they sit in the relegation battle and their new one can't get a win even with the addition of 6 of his own choice free tranfers and putting only 1 of his inherited squad out. And who'd have thought after the wholesale changes at ross county pre season they'd switch their gaffer and find themselves adding 7 new faces in the winter window, of which 3 scored the goals against us, yet only streamline their wagebill by releasing Arquin....

 

Right now we play every team in the league. They are all our competitors. As are those in any league who promise our talent similar or better professional terms (and are willing to test thier relationship with their bank manager so to do). I think Archie has done quite well keeping this squad together.

 

 

eta

 

Correct me if I'm wrong CGBM but is the average age of our team not gone up this season -& I don't just mean by a year!!

Edited February 24, 2015 by Bleeding Gums Murphy

[Lindau]

 

 

There's no need for that Lindau.

 

As has been said before, we all want the Jags to do well but there are way too many Nazis on here who can't take an alternative opinion to their own.

 

Everyone (including yourself, Tom Hosie and La Scimmia Rossa who have all been 'overly opinionated' to put it politely) should chill out, and learn to debate in a constructive spirit and can the insults and sarcasm.

 

Bit rich coming from someone who was telling me to wind my neck in last week!! Nice you mention me, TH and LSR as being over opinionated but not BGM or The Cup. Dear oh dear, sort of sums it up. Anyway as stated earlier I am culling my postings on here till the end of the season, when we can discuss the managers position. Unlike some others (The Cup) I will stick to supporting the team instead of having digs about happy clappers (supporters) going up to Tannadice to support the side. Must be great to be a trolling, keyboard warrior.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Correct me if I'm wrong CGBM but is the average age of our team not gone up this season -& I don't just mean by a year!! ��

 

If you took our first team first choice at start of last season being

 

Fox

SOD

ATS

Aero

Balatoni

Osbourne

Banzo

Craigen

Dools

Higgy

Lawless

 

Against this one this season

 

Gallacher

SOD

McMillan

Frans

Seabiscuit

Osman

Banzo

Fraser

Stevenson

Lawless

Higgy

 

then average age & experience greater than last?

 

Maybe not a lot in it but with Gallacher, McMillan, Seaborne, Frans & Stevenson it would be classed as more experienced?

 

Don't think many folk expected Ross Co not be down near the bottom this season. Adams & McGregor were going through 2 teams a season & luck had to run out eventually. That said, now 2 wins on the bounce. Better than we've achieved so far this season.

 

As for Motherwell, think we all agreed they over achieved last cpl seasons but were faltering badly this season due to more budget constraints. McCall to an extent saw the writing on the wall & jumped. All hypothetical, but I don't believe they'd be in that position if McCall in charge. Bottom 6, yes, bottom, no.

 

That said it says a lot that Barraclough's only victory to date.... (Think that's correct).

 

It adds more favour to the "don't change the manager" arguement I guess but then the next 2 games become vital. We may have to bite the bullet before it's too late- especially if there's a repeat of Saturday's performance.

 

Lambie definitely one of a kind in sense that he took guys past their best or past their sell by dates at other clubs & seemed to be able to squeeze every last piece of effort out them.

 

Money wise you're right in saying about having money to spend but those were pre Save The Jags days where money was no object it seemed- to no Scottish side.

 

It was his last season in charge that no one player in the squad earned anymore than the rest that stands out for me personally.

 

What's yer point?

 

Yeah, the average age of the squad has probably gone up. Those who were with us last year have top flight experience and we've brought in a few experienced heads. As I said, "I think Archie has done quite well keeping this squad together.".

 

You, however, were saying it is the best squad and possibly best paid we've had in 30 years. I countered with some detail about the experience of the players, transfers paid and performance record of Lambie's 2nd yer in the prem squad, and asserted "best" is academically debateable.

 

I don't see what good it does your arguement comparing a first choice 11 from the start of last season to a possible 11 of some time this year (Fox was #1 till sent off at dundee, Seabourne signed late august, Frans in october) and make a point we are slightly more experienced to hammer Archie. If the squad is adding much needed experience, that's good right? Of the players you mentioned, With Stevo, I guess one might argue Archie's played him out of position? But Galls, Jordan, Dan, Freddy? Or is it that you are saying, we're "on paper" better therefore we should be performing better. We'll the fact is, it's a marginal improvement, and "on paper" (after 26 games 1 more defeat but 2 more victories and vastly better goal diff) we are marginallly better.

 

The Average age of the team you qoute is about 25/26, but what is their experience? Gall's and Stevo's is not in question but McMillan, Seabourne, Frans? Respectable but hopefully even their best days and career highs are still to come.

 

Considering you've named 6 of only 8 players we have over 25 in the team, I think it's fair comment to suggest we still have a young squad still on the rise, the dawning, or at worst mid morning, of most of their careers.

 

My point about Motherwell and ross co. is that "on paper" they have bigger squads, are spending more, have been in the league longer and one might think the should both be performing better. In january they added to the squad an wage bill. We, kinda forced to pick a left back, any left back, 1 in 1 out up front taylor for Eccleston and finnie a punt on the future.

 

By the way, McCall left after going out of Europe at the first hurdle, 9 defeats out of 12 (5on the trot before he jumped ship)

and with 8 players tied up on 2 year deals. Motherwell's 3rd victory since Stuarty chucked it and Baraclough's second was over us. But I make the point, that this was the first game after Mcmillan played silly buggers(allegedly)forcing our gaffer to play a midfielder at left back who promptly concedes a game deciding penalty due to poor positional play.

 

Also ... To insinuate two wins on the bounce is a better achievment than what we've achieved this season.... really? were you really trying to say you'd swap their record with ours? Their form maybe? They've beaten us and Motherwell... I know we were sh1te but they only scraped past the mighty well at home 3-2!!!

 

... ... ... Mate.... I don't think anyone is argueing Archie is perfect, and no-one could deny we are on a very nasty run. I can't explain all his in game decisions. I don't condone all his team selections, nevermind agree with all his tactical choices. However, it's not all his fault and it's not all the clubs fault that we're in a tough place right now. 2 years does not a footballing guru make, and 2 years SPFL does not a rich football club make.

 

This time last year we were 2nd bottom, and got 16 points in the remainder. We need 13 from 12 games to match last year's total ( 3 wins 4 draws 5 defeats, 7 games to the split, right off dons and tims away?) with three teams still 7 points behind us, I think we could achieve and should survive on that. If you think there is a shortcut to success, one that will cost us no more money but definately work, then tell us the onus is on you. Agree or disagree, us happy clappers have given our solution, stick with what we have, support it, it has potential, simple. What's your plan? You need one, binning the boss is easy, guiding us to safety is not.

 

Whoever's in charge, they need our support for another tough run in!

 

Edited February 25, 2015 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

Bit rich coming from someone who was telling me to wind my neck in last week!! Nice you mention me, TH and LSR as being over opinionated but not BGM or The Cup. Dear oh dear, sort of sums it up. Anyway as stated earlier I am culling my postings on here till the end of the season, when we can discuss the managers position. Unlike some others (The Cup) I will stick to supporting the team instead of having digs about happy clappers (supporters) going up to Tannadice to support the side. Must be great to be a trolling, keyboard warrior.

 

To be honest with you- read beyind first line- I'm only ever sarcastic etc with those who think because I have a diff opinion to them means I'm a knob, d!ck etc or are unwilling to 'debate' like adults.

 

Check my sarcastic posts.

 

Everything from your 2nd line comment to Dark Pissinger & Gascube a few weeks back not to mention the Monkey Red lauding it over with his 'get it up ye haters' thread. Then there's the polis Ton Hosie who likes to defend his friends but admits is football fan who's allowed an opinion.

 

I asked Allyo to explain something last week & although he didn't sound particularly happy that I did, we agreed to disagree.

 

I've had grown up debates on here with some, others feel the need to think they're, well I don't know how best to describe them but I can be sarcastic & hold my own in return.

 

They can spit the dummy, hit ignore or choose to ignore.

 

Won't stop me posting my OPINION on an fans FORUM.

[Tom Hosie]

To be honest with you- read beyind first line- I'm only ever sarcastic etc with those who think because I have a diff opinion to them means I'm a knob, d!ck etc or are unwilling to 'debate' like adults.

 

Check my sarcastic posts.

 

Everything from your 2nd line comment to Dark Pissinger & Gascube a few weeks back not to mention the Monkey Red lauding it over with his 'get it up ye haters' thread. Then there's the polis Ton Hosie who likes to defend his friends but admits is football fan who's allowed an opinion.

 

I asked Allyo to explain something last week & although he didn't sound particularly happy that I did, we agreed to disagree.

 

I've had grown up debates on here with some, others feel the need to think they're, well I don't know how best to describe them but I can be sarcastic & hold my own in return.

 

They can spit the dummy, hit ignore or choose to ignore.

 

Won't stop me posting my OPINION on an fans FORUM.

 

Eh?

 

And you couldn't be more off the mark re the colourful primate.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

 

 

What's yer point?

 

Yeah, the average age of the squad has probably gone up. Those who were with us last year have top flight experience and we've brought in a few experienced heads. As I said, "I think Archie has done quite well keeping this squad together.".

 

You, however, were saying it is the best squad and possibly best paid we've had in 30 years. I countered with some detail about the experience of the players, transfers paid and performance record of Lambie's 2nd yer in the prem squad, and asserted "best" is academically debateable.

 

I don't see what good it does your arguement comparing a first choice 11 from the start of last season to a possible 11 of some time this year (Fox was #1 till sent off at dundee, Seabourne signed late august, Frans in october) and make a point we are slightly more experienced to hammer Archie. If the squad is adding much needed experience, that's good right? Of the players you mentioned, With Stevo, I guess one might argue Archie's played him out of position? But Galls, Jordan, Dan, Freddy? Or is it that you are saying, we're "on paper" better therefore we should be performing better. We'll the fact is, it's a marginal improvement, and "on paper" (after 26 games 1 more defeat but 2 more victories and vastly better goal diff) we are marginallly better.

 

The Average age of the team you qoute is about 25/26, but what is their experience? Gall's and Stevo's is not in question but McMillan, Seabourne, Frans? Respectable but hopefully even their best days and career highs are still to come.

 

Considering you've named 6 of only 8 players we have over 25 in the team, I think it's fair comment to suggest we still have a young squad still on the rise, the dawning, or at worst mid morning, of most of their careers.

 

My point about Motherwell and ross co. is that "on paper" they have bigger squads, are spending more, have been in the league longer and one might think the should both be performing better. In january they added to the squad an wage bill. We, kinda forced to pick a left back, any left back, 1 in 1 out up front taylor for Eccleston and finnie a punt on the future.

 

By the way, McCall left after going out of Europe at the first hurdle, 9 defeats out of 12 (5on the trot before he jumped ship)

and with 8 players tied up on 2 year deals. Motherwell's 3rd victory since Stuarty chucked it and Baraclough's second was over us. But I make the point, that this was the first game after Mcmillan played silly buggers(allegedly)forcing our gaffer to play a midfielder at left back who promptly concedes a game deciding penalty due to poor positional play.

 

Also ... To insinuate two wins on the bounce is a better achievment than what we've achieved this season.... really? were you really trying to say you'd swap their record with ours? Their form maybe? They've beaten us and Motherwell... I know we were sh1te but they only scraped past the mighty well at home 3-2!!!

 

... ... ... Mate.... I don't think anyone is argueing Archie is perfect, and no-one could deny we are on a very nasty run. I can't explain all his in game decisions. I don't condone all his team selections, nevermind agree with all his tactical choices. However, it's not all his fault and it's not all the clubs fault that we're in a tough place right now. 2 years does not a footballing guru make, and 2 years SPFL does not a rich football club make.

 

This time last year we were 2nd bottom, and got 16 points in the remainder. We need 13 from 12 games to match last year's total ( 3 wins 4 draws 5 defeats, 7 games to the split, right off dons and tims away?) with three teams still 7 points behind us, I think we could achieve and should survive on that. If you think there is a shortcut to success, one that will cost us no more money but definately work, then tell us the onus is on you. Agree or disagree, us happy clappers have given our solution, stick with what we have, support it, it has potential, simple. What's your plan? You need one, binning the boss is easy, guiding us to safety is not.

 

Whoever's in charge, they need our support for another tough run in!

 

 

If I said best squad in 20+ years would we agree?

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

If I said best squad in 20+ years would we agree? ��

 

As for the Ross Co comparison, I was merely stating that we're at the business end of the season, so to speak. & it's that key word 'momentum'.

 

Now I realise in football, momentum can change as quickly as it appears but at this time of the season is with Ross Co.

 

Who'd have given them a chance 1st Feb? Not many of their own fans I'd expect so it does show momentum can change very quickly.

 

Personally I feel we've had no 'momentum' all season. It's been stop-start. One step forward, one back.

 

Motherwell's 'momentum' is arguably worse than ours (not even sure can justify the word arguably here) after changing their manager but worryingly their victory came against us.

 

I agree re McMillan nonsense & Bannigan at left back but that was the manager's decision to select him there. Same way as it was his to put Stevenson up front vs ICT in cup etc etc.

 

I know you've agreed re not agreeing with AA team selection but from my side I just look at that along with the rigid tactics, the passing game gone to be replaced with sideways balls & then hoof, the defensive side of things especially when defending corners & the concession of late goals then think what progress are we making?

 

I don't expect miracles & survival should be main aim at the start of the season &, imo, with squad we have assembled should be achieved easier than how we're going about it.

 

For crying out loud, it was only a few weeks avo that top 6 was still being mentioned by the assistant manager in his ET column.

 

Who do you replace him with? Well onus not in me. That's the BoD who have to decide whether they think AA is the man to keep us up or, in worse case scenario, is the man to rebuild & being us back up again.

 

Again, my opinion, I just don't think he is for either for reasons stated 100+ times before.

 

I will be at Tannadice Saturday hoping for the best. But already you feel that this is one of these games that if we take points then it's a bonus.

 

However I would hope to see a marked improvement on recent performances, especially last week.

 

The big game is County a week Sat.

 

We have to start picking up the points from the clubs we're around. That's something we've failed to do last time out vs Motherwell, Ross Co, St Mirren & Dundee plus a reasonable point at Killie.

 

We need some kind of momentum now heading to split.

 

Otherwise.... ��

 

20 years now? Well maybe would could look into it and discuss. But, here's a fact, in the last 20 years we have only ever managed 1 years survival in the top flight followed by relegation the next. So if we go down with Archie, it'll be no worse than what's gone before in that time.

 

I'd have given Ross co. a chance at the start of feb! Although, not winning games, during Dec'&Jan' they lost only 1 goal in 2 games h&a to celtic, lost by the odd goal to Hamilton and drew with 3rd placed Caley.... then bring in 6 players, all potential first team starters, in the winter window.

 

Momentum is good but not essential. Any team who happens to play the dons or the tic right now is a pretty safe bet to have their momentum disrupted. That can be the luck of the draw. At the end of last season teams were up and down the table like yo-yos. We went from 11th to 7th resting at 10th with a couple of stops in between from this point last year. We also gubbed the team with the best momentum at the time Hearts (1 draw 5 wins, which incedently followed 4 straight defeats) 4-2 to seal survival.

 

Bannigan at left back was a forced decision and many of us might have done the same. But did the gaffer not swap him for Christie mid game when he saw stuart was struggling....? He does make some astute descisions.

 

The progress is slower than we might have hoped for. But the gaffer is primraily responsible for assembling the squad you clearly beleive can do better. He has been, unlucky with injuries, suspensions for on and off field matters, and has not been able to use his squad as he might have. Strength and depth takes time when your skint. For example, Taylor was a prime target over the summer we couldn't afford him. We started at the back with Balatoni and Aero, but looked at numerous replacements before deciding on Seabo and Frans a month and 3 months into the season.

 

Critisising the gaffer is fine, it'd be a sh1te state of affairs if that wasn't allowed. But when you get to the point of saying he's not good enough or he's got to go you're just being a coany munt if you can't give a realistic alternative and back it up or sympathise with the scale of the challenge and support the team regardless.

 

Said it before, every game is BIG till the we're safe. 6 weeks or so ago we'd got a creditable draw with a decimated squad against DU and humped accies 5-0. Top 6 was still possible and mathematically still is 14 points off it 36 to play for. I doubt we'll here that chat now. All hands to the pump? Or are we just 12th man when were winning?

 

Edited February 25, 2015 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[La Scimmia Rossa]

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2014-02-16

[Lindau]

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/scotland/premiership/2013-2014/table/2014-02-16

 

Yip some people have very short memories or short attention spans. Another table put up a few days ago shows the two Thistles as the only clubs that have both improved their position and points tally from the exact same games played last year!