Crowds

[Jaggernaut]

Over 6,000 at Kirkaldy for the derby match with the Pars yesterday. Over 4,000 at Falkirk. Just below 4,000 at Dundee.

 

Hard to see us being able to come anywhere near those crowds these days.

 

[GrantB]

Yet it wasn't that long ago when we got near 7000 for a home game against Airdrie.

[The Earl of Hathaway]

Not saying our crowds are healthy, but we're not comparing like with like. Talking to a Pars fan in work he thought they would get 7,000 plus for the first derby game of the season, and Dundee seem to have a support that's held up remarkably well. Falkirk's crowds will tail off as well as soon as it becomes clear that Pressley won't get them out of the First Division. Our problem as has been repeated on here ad infinitum is that we've haemmorhaged supporters (for a multitude of reasons) over the last 10 years and aren't going in a direction both on and off the pitch that suggests we're going to have them flooding back in. Winning games at home and not serving up sh*t like yesterday would be a start though.

[Guest Argus]

Over 6,000 at Kirkaldy for the derby match with the Pars yesterday. Over 4,000 at Falkirk. Just below 4,000 at Dundee.

 

Hard to see us being able to come anywhere near those crowds these days.

 

 

I actually think those crowds are a positive.

It shows there is a desire out there and if we could only produce a product people felt was worth viewing we might be able to start to get some fans back through the gates.

[Tartanjag]

I actually think those crowds are a positive.

It shows there is a desire out there and if we could only produce a product people felt was worth viewing we might be able to start to get some fans back through the gates.

Pricing has to be addressed. It's way too expensive. It was great to see so many kids at Greenock yesterday who perhaps would not have been there if Morton had not woken up and seen that Under 12's free makes sense. although I think our under 16 policy is the way to go.

 

I assume Falkirk have not agreed to our free kids for the cup tie, hence having to pay £ 6. However a canny piece of pricing of Adult £ 12 sorts it out.

 

See you Tuesday with Junior.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I actually think those crowds are a positive.

It shows there is a desire out there and if we could only produce a product people felt was worth viewing we might be able to start to get some fans back through the gates.

This is true to a degree. It does show that there are fans out there. Whether any upturn in the crowds in Div 1 can be put down to the quality of the product or the inordinate amount of derby games is another matter. If it's the latter then attendances are possibly unsustainable.

This season Raith, Pars, Cowdenbeath & Falkirk will all play a minimum of 9 derby matches. Dunfermline will play at least 12, every third league game a derby! There's a very good chance some of those matches later on the season will have a bearing on the outcome of the league at both ends so decent crowds could be expected. But say Ross Co or Dundee run away with the league what sort of fan interest will there be in a Dunfermline v Raith game when they're playing their 11th & 9th derby game?

There's much the SFL could be doing to avoid this overkill situation, primarily larger leagues where we only play each twice a season and restricting the Challenge Cup to the lower leagues.

[Blackpool Jags]

This is true to a degree. It does show that there are fans out there. Whether any upturn in the crowds in Div 1 can be put down to the quality of the product or the inordinate amount of derby games is another matter. If it's the latter then attendances are possibly unsustainable.

This season Raith, Pars, Cowdenbeath & Falkirk will all play a minimum of 9 derby matches. Dunfermline will play at least 12, every third league game a derby! There's a very good chance some of those matches later on the season will have a bearing on the outcome of the league at both ends so decent crowds could be expected. But say Ross Co or Dundee run away with the league what sort of fan interest will there be in a Dunfermline v Raith game when they're playing their 11th & 9th derby game?

There's much the SFL could be doing to avoid this overkill situation, primarily larger leagues where we only play each twice a season and restricting the Challenge Cup to the lower leagues.

 

Agree entirely.

[northernsoul]

I'm not jealous of any other Club.

 

I'm pissed off at folk who run our own Club who have done a good job at turning fans away.

[lennythistle]

I'm not jealous of any other Club.

 

I'm pissed off at folk who run our own Club who have done a good job at turning fans away.

 

OK, but bare in mind yesterday was an away game for us.........so surely more to be said about the lack of morton fans in the stadium than our own !!

[mrD]

the solution?

[briogadh]

I actually think those crowds are a positive.

It shows there is a desire out there and if we could only produce a product people felt was worth viewing we might be able to start to get some fans back through the gates.

 

Spot on. But like some other old stagers on here, I have come to the conclusion that Glaswegians are no longer interested in any thing but the OF. So we are never going to be looking at an average of more than,perhaps,5000 Jags fans, no matter how good a team we have on the park. But even 5000 looks like an impossible dream in the immediate future.

Looking at attendances in the English lower leagues it is noteworthy how some pretty small towns give support to their team in numbers which put most Scottish clubs to shame. In the last 30-40 years, the OF has effectively destroyed the local patriotism of the game up here, just as the Premiership is well on the way to doing south of the border.

[kni]

Spot on. But like some other old stagers on here, I have come to the conclusion that Glaswegians are no longer interested in any thing but the OF. So we are never going to be looking at an average of more than,perhaps,5000 Jags fans, no matter how good a team we have on the park. But even 5000 looks like an impossible dream in the immediate future.

Looking at attendances in the English lower leagues it is noteworthy how some pretty small towns give support to their team in numbers which put most Scottish clubs to shame. In the last 30-40 years, the OF has effectively destroyed the local patriotism of the game up here, just as the Premiership is well on the way to doing south of the border.

 

It is too easy to blame the OF for our woes. Frankly, the decline in our crowds is due to our fan base being driven away by the rubbish served up by Campbell and, now, McCall. If we had a decent team that played attractive and attacking football regularly, we could crowds over 3,000 and sometimes up to 5,000.

[McKennan]

Pricing has to be addressed. It's way too expensive.

 

Agreed, but the club's overheads have to be addressed as well.

[McKennan]

It is too easy to blame the OF for our woes. Frankly, the decline in our crowds is due to our fan base being driven away by the rubbish served up by Campbell and, now, McCall. If we had a decent team that played attractive and attacking football regularly, we could crowds over 3,000 and sometimes up to 5,000.

 

 

Would we really? I recall that back in 1998/1999/2000 fans believed that if we played good football and made the SPL we'd have regular crowds of between 7500 to 10,000 people. It never happened. By all means improve what goes on on the park (please God) but that clearly isn't the only factor.

[McKennan]

the solution?

 

In the short term, no. In the long term, yes. Where would the Old Firm go? Not that I'd give a sh*t, just a matter of practicality. I don't think you can get moon rockets that big.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Frankly, the decline in our crowds is due to our fan base being driven away by the rubbish served up by Campbell and, now, McCall. If we had a decent team that played attractive and attacking football regularly, we could crowds over 3,000 and sometimes up to 5,000.

Sorry, kni, you'll have to back that up with more than that. By definition that's really a slight on our lapsed fanbase. Jags fans may be fickle but not that fickle.

I would suggest our lack of attendances between 3000 & 5000 is down to a lot more complex issues than anything Messrs Campbell & McCall have inflicted on us.

[Guest Argus]

Sorry, kni, you'll have to back that up with more than that. By definition that's really a slight on our lapsed fanbase. Jags fans may be fickle but not that fickle.

I would suggest our lack of attendances between 3000 & 5000 is down to a lot more complex issues than anything Messrs Campbell & McCall have inflicted on us.

 

I agree, to a point.

Serving up poorly performing teams in poor facilities certainly doesn't help but old timers like me and others who were brought up on the only entertainment being the fitba on a saturday afternoon, bevvy with the lads on a Thursday night (pay day) and the occasional visit to the flicks with ur burd are a dying breed.

Football now contests with a host of other attractions, probably at a lot better value and doesn't compete well and failing that there is alway sky.

[fatnallyjag]

its not just a local problem today Middlesborough played Shefield United, two of the bigger clubs in the championship and only a couple of hours apart which in championship terms is a short distance and only 14,600 turned up for it, when the boro were in premiership they were getting at least 10,000 more and while youd expect a dip you wouldnt expect that much especialy agaisnt a club of Sheff UTd's size who i imagine bring a good traveling support.

 

People just don't have the money to pay the inflated prices at the moment which accounts for the dip over the last 18 months or so so,

 

but I do accept that our own attendances have been diping for longer ( see messrs campbell/cowan, etc) and that the product plays a part.

 

not only do Falkirk, raith and dunfermline have derbies involved but theyve made signings n shown intent to improve which excites supporters, can we say the same, i don't think so

 

also do we count the free under 16s in the attendance figure, id assume not as they don't pay and clearly taxes have to be paid on the accounts regarding attendances therefore are there more peole there than it shows and also is it financially worthwhile, obviously thats a more complex question as its about future attendances and future gate money

[lineens weegie army]

Speaking as someone with no loyalty to a particular club - i would make the following observations:

 

- Football is too expensive for a whole generation of fans. Obviously schemes like PT's under 16's go free is helping in this regard, but how many young lads between 18 and 25 (traditionally a large section of the football clubs support) can afford the prices in division 1 - never mind the SPL? (the situation is even worse in England - only 1 in 10 supporters at an EPL game last season was under a certain age. Can't remember the exact age, but think it was 35?)

 

This is the reason we should bring back terraces a la the German model - not the entire ground, but atleast an area in each ground where tickets are far cheaper (even if the view isn't as good as it is from, say, the JH stand). Maybe the powers that should be should force clubs to sell, say, 10% of their tickets for under a certain price - and leave it to the clubs whether they make an area standing, or wether they just sell certain seats dirt cheap. (as a plus side, if you forced Rangers to sell 5,000 tickets at say £10, instead of £25, thats a drop of £75,000 per game. might level the playing field slightly)

 

 

- playing the same sides over and over is tiresome, and needs to change as soon as possible. My preference would be for 2 divisions of 16, top 2 go up - next 3 join 3rd from bottom in a play-off. Below that, regional leagues - but we are going over old ground here.

 

-Scottish football is in a bad way, but all is not rossy in England either. The EPL is unsustainable, and is heading obliviously into a major crisis. Why is it that clubs are seemingly incapable of heeding the warnings? Cardiff have survived 4/5 winding up orders in the last few months, yet have spent big in the summer - if they don't go up, they go bust. end of. Is it wrong I am hoping it's the latter?

 

bristol's Chief Executive has just resigned because he refused to pay players more than 10K a week - the rest of the board said that was stupid and would make it impossible to survive in the EPL. 10K a week... thats 520K per year, plus bonuses! per player! Even that is unsustainable, never mind paying them more.

 

At least in Scotland we have gone through it already, have realised we are seriously fecked and now need only convince the Old Firm to agree to changes.

 

 

The ideal scenario, in my opinion, would be for the SFA to take control of the SPL, SFL ect and force through the changes we all now are required. Unfortunatly, I doubt that even could happen, never mind likely to.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Thistle have always had a good "fair weather" support and 2000ish hard-core regulars, at least for the 27 years I've been attending. It can drop to 3 figures in the darkest times and rise to near 5 when the sun shines on Queens X. In my first season I was a mascot. Season 83-84. We were top of the league 5 wins in 5 and Mo Johnson with 4 goals already attracting all sorts of big name clubs. Attendance for my 5 minutes of fame?... 2000ish. But we have often proven that we can attract a large crowds home and away when something's on the line.

 

* Season 89-90 ( i think ) we took 3500 to Mcdairmid Park for the first all ticket first division (as the second tier) match since the re-formation of the leagues in 75-76.

 

* season 91-92 10,000 jags fans witness promotion at Firhill.

 

* season 01-02 A fantastic following at Hampden and Love Street for the cup semi and winning the league respectively.

 

* season 07-08 3500 at ibrox? certainly a larger support than most spl teams take to the hunnery. Then fill th J.H. for the replay.

 

...Just a few highlights over the years, crowds to be proud of, and I've witnessed many other impressive turnouts home and away. I also recall a near full J.H. stand when we were relegated to div 2 against Ayr 97-98 ...Point is we can pull 'em in. No doubt. Difficulty is sustaining the interest and securing the loyalty.

 

The "under 16s free" scheme is hopefully planting some seeds. But perhaps more could be done to incentivise season ticket holders to recruit more regulars. A couple of "bring a pal half price stubs" in season ticket book? 10% discount if You nominate a new season ticket buyer? I dont know how close the season ticket community is (i havn't had one for years) , how closely the club track's it's fans or what data it keeps on it's season ticket holders. I'm sure though, that much more could be done to make these good people feel more part of the club, build a stronger community within it and grow our regular army.

 

Whether any of such innitiatives would increase attendance is debateable. There is no question that a strong team is the main attraction. So in the meantime we have to make the most of what we have. And 2000-ish die-hards can make a hell of a racket when in the right mood. I've posted elsewhere on here my opinion that we need away supporters in the J.H. to generate the kind of atmophere the shed was famous for. The token jesture of "allowing" the fans to sing merrily in the furthest corner of the ground from the away support is totally naive if it is intended to build a vibe people will get excited about. To call it "The shed end" or what ever they have named it is an insult to the memories.

 

Stop trying to make the J.H. all things to all people. It just dont work!!! Shut the shoebox behind the canal end goal and RE-OPEN THE MAINSTAND FOR THE TOFFS AND FAMILIES!!!

I know the catering facilities in the Alan Rough are better than the Aitken suite. But being frowned upon for effin and b-in in front of the weans and sponsors is twistin ma melon man!!

 

FOOTBALL STARTS WI' AN "F" FOR F's SAKE!!!

 

 

 

Come in agent 00MoJo! Your mission is complete!

[kni]

Sorry, kni, you'll have to back that up with more than that. By definition that's really a slight on our lapsed fanbase. Jags fans may be fickle but not that fickle.

I would suggest our lack of attendances between 3000 & 5000 is down to a lot more complex issues than anything Messrs Campbell & McCall have inflicted on us.

 

Any business needs an attractive and competitively priced product to attract customers. In football, there will always be a hard core base of diehards and masochists who will turn out regardless. In our case, that's about 2,500 regulars who braved Campbell's Dickheids and McCall's Misfits. However, the vast majority of our fans will not pay over £20 (including travel, programme and food) to watch a bunch of diddies who could not score in Blytheswood Square with a grand in their pockets.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

In fairness, one would have to be a diddy to go lookin for a score on Blytheswood Squre if one had a grand in one's sky rocket. na'ata meen?