Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, Thistleberight said: With the greatest respect i find yout position incredulous. End of. Startin to think you've an agenda here No agenda - just pointing out the reality of where we are - facts are facts - even if they are uncomfortable - we have recieved a substantial amount of money from the Weirs and we are fighting relegation with home crowds near 2000 - what part of that isnt true ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, javeajag said: Could you point me to the source of the banks writing off other clubs debts ? Most Scottish Clubs cut deals with the banks paying a small % in the £ to write off the bank debts - it was well documented in the press - Thistle could have struck a similiar deal on there own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Okay so your criticism isn’t of establishing a youth academy, but of not appointing foreign coaches and instead appointing well qualified Scottish coaches? That’s an odd criticism. And I’ve seen multiple coaching jobs advertised at the Weir academy. Are we to translate these into Spanish and publish them in El Pais? The approach within the Weir academy already seems, from what I’ve read, to be innovative in Scotland in some ways. E.g. the use of bio-banding (I think that’s the right term?), which according to media coverage was the first use of it in Scotland. Isn’t that the kind of different approach you’re (from what I can piece together from your posts) calling for? You’re asking are we better off because we are debt free? Of course we are, because we are debt free. That is a successful outcome. Are we more successful on the park at the moment? Clearly not. But that’s not because we are debt free, building a training ground and developing a youth academy. I’ve posted multiple times on here about my concerns over the club’s leadership, but I’m genuinely baffled at criticism being directed their way for accepting investment. Not sure what reasons you may have for your criticism but it does come across as very flimsy. Its not the investment its the fact that there is little to show for it - and it could be argued it worked against us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Most Scottish Clubs cut deals with the banks paying a small % in the £ to write off the bank debts - it was well documented in the press - Thistle could have struck a similiar deal on there own As I recall, it was attempted but Bank of Scotland refused. They weren't owed quite enough money / we weren't quite far enough in the hole and the value of the Bank's security exceeded the value of the debt. Circumstances were different for other clubs, but it was an avenue which wasn't open to us at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: No agenda - just pointing out the reality of where we are - facts are facts - even if they are uncomfortable - we have recieved a substantial amount of money from the Weirs and we are fighting relegation with home crowds near 2000 - what part of that isnt true ? You sir have been drinking way too much eggnog. The point about rental aside, your position re the wuers atinks of agenda. How can tou correlate their gifts and assiatance to falling crowds. Madness. Utter tosh and bollox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Most Scottish Clubs cut deals with the banks paying a small % in the £ to write off the bank debts - it was well documented in the press - Thistle could have struck a similiar deal on there own No I don’t think that is true firstly bank of Scotland was by far the biggest lender to Scottish football rbs for example I think had Falkirk and one other... secondly bos didn’t not offer thistle any such deal as Lloyd’s who then owned them did not afoot that approach more specific examples please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Its not the investment its the fact that there is little to show for it - and it could be argued it worked against us It could certainly be argued, but as you’re showing it can’t be argued with any credibility. You clearly have other reasons for pushing this odd argument though so I’ll leave you to your agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 26 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: It could certainly be argued, but as you’re showing it can’t be argued with any credibility. You clearly have other reasons for pushing this odd argument though so I’ll leave you to your agenda. Ok - but the facts are the facts - the Weir money has made little or any impact on our position - we were promoted and were in the Premier before there investment - so its clearly demonstrated that there was a sustanable Club - what impact there money has made is subject to opinion my view is that it let to complacency on multi levels and ended up as a negative rather than a positive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, javeajag said: No I don’t think that is true firstly bank of Scotland was by far the biggest lender to Scottish football rbs for example I think had Falkirk and one other... secondly bos didn’t not offer thistle any such deal as Lloyd’s who then owned them did not afoot that approach more specific examples please How do you know we werent offered a deal - it was offered to other Clubs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 34 minutes ago, Thistleberight said: You sir have been drinking way too much eggnog. The point about rental aside, your position re the wuers atinks of agenda. How can tou correlate their gifts and assiatance to falling crowds. Madness. Utter tosh and bollox. If you get free money then there is little or no incentive on things like getting bums on seats etc as the shortfall is being made up - it leads to complaceny and lack of drive and innovation - that permeates on multi levels We were promoted on half of the budgeted turnover we have for this year 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok - but the facts are the facts - the Weir money has made little or any impact on our position - we were promoted and were in the Premier before there investment - so its clearly demonstrated that there was a sustanable Club - what impact there money has made is subject to opinion my view is that it let to complacency on multi levels and ended up as a negative rather than a positive Is your position literally that being debt free is worse than being in debt? And are you seriously suggesting that the Weir’s investment has led to us being in a worse position? I’m trying to find some sort of nuance in your argument but I can’t find it and it seems you’re genuinely suggesting the above. The logical extension of your argument is that the lack of investment led to success. Given that’s stretching credulity, I can only conclude you have a different agenda driven by other factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: If you get free money then there is little or no incentive on things like getting bums on seats etc as the shortfall is being made up - it leads to complaceny and lack of drive and innovation - that permeates on multi levels We were promoted on half of the budgeted turnover we have for this year By your logic clubs with no money should be the most successful, surely? And clubs with the most money should be failing, given the complacency that must permeate them? Edited December 27, 2018 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: And we are bottom of the league with Crowds under 2000 - a good thing is of no use whatsoever unless its also the right thing No one is questioning that Colin Weir thinks he is doing well by his Club - question is - what is being achieved as a result The problem I see with the Weirs money is the club/board have become lazy chasing cash/fans and we now expect the Weirs to open the wallet if something goes wrong instead of planning to remove these risks asa normal sustainable business would. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: Is your position literally that being debt free is worse than being in debt? And are you seriously suggesting that the Weir’s investment has led to us being in a worse position? I’m trying to find some sort of nuance in your argument but I can’t find it and it seems you’re genuinely suggesting the above. The logical extension of your argument is that the lack of investment led to success. Given that’s stretching credulity, I can only conclude you have a different agenda driven by other factors. Ive clearly stated that the Club was promoted and was in the Premier prior to the Weir cash - thats a fact Crowd were healthy we were trading at a solid profit - other Clubs were offered a % in the £ to wipe out the bank debt we could have done the same These are facts not agenda so let me ask you - have we gone forward since we got the Weir money and if so how and where - my view is we have gone backwards based on current position - is it related to Weir cash - no idea- but we have gone backwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The problem I see with the Weirs money is the club/board have become lazy chasing cash/fans and we now expect the Weirs to open the wallet if something goes wrong instead of planning to remove these risks asa normal sustainable business would. Complacency is the enemy of progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 Just now, Jordanhill Jag said: Complacency is the enemy of progress Spot on Jim, and we have been too complacent for too long, we still believe we’ll get promoted whilst we career towards the 1st division, not only is that complacency but it’s incompetency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: By your logic clubs with no money should be the most successful, surely? And clubs with the most money should be failing, given the complacency that must permeate them? That assumes that large clubs with lots of money are complacent - which given the fan pressure they tend not to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ive clearly stated that the Club was promoted and was in the Premier prior to the Weir cash - thats a fact Crowd were healthy we were trading at a solid profit - other Clubs were offered a % in the £ to wipe out the bank debt we could have done the same These are facts not agenda so let me ask you - have we gone forward since we got the Weir money and if so how and where - my view is we have gone backwards based on current position - is it related to Weir cash - no idea- but we have gone backwards They’re facts but they aren’t facts related to the issue we are debating. The Weir money has made us debt free. That is progress (even if you bizarrely don’t think it is). It has allowed us to establish a youth academy which will hopefully soon bear fruit. That is progress. It is allowing us to build a training ground instead of hiring parks all around Glasgow. That is progress. We are currently doing poorly and a lot of that is down to decisions made by the club’s leadership, but it isn’t because of Weir investment - which any club in Scotland would have bitten your hand off for. Edited December 27, 2018 by KemoAvdiu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: How do you know we werent offered a deal - it was offered to other Clubs ? It was reported at agms and when the debt was cleared that the bank would not alter our deal which even included Tom Hughes having to stay as finance director now some specific examples of what you are arguing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 40 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok - but the facts are the facts - the Weir money has made little or any impact on our position - we were promoted and were in the Premier before there investment - so its clearly demonstrated that there was a sustanable Club - what impact there money has made is subject to opinion my view is that it let to complacency on multi levels and ended up as a negative rather than a positive The weirs cleared our £600k debt ....what are you on about example if complacency please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: If you get free money then there is little or no incentive on things like getting bums on seats etc as the shortfall is being made up - it leads to complaceny and lack of drive and innovation - that permeates on multi levels We were promoted on half of the budgeted turnover we have for this year Did you not get on the Board or something ? the weirs are not contributing to or subsidising our spending ....if our income in £4m then that’s all we have to spend as there is no bank overdraft facility so financial discipline is key and therefore there is no room for complacency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: The problem I see with the Weirs money is the club/board have become lazy chasing cash/fans and we now expect the Weirs to open the wallet if something goes wrong instead of planning to remove these risks asa normal sustainable business would. Where us your evidence for that statement ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: The weirs cleared our £600k debt ....what are you on about example if complacency please That’s the Weirs, but what have the board done to increase revenue, keep and grow fanbase, and plan beyond the Weirs? When the cash from Colin stops we will be in a mess due to us being “complacent “ by putting all our chips on it, instead of classing it as a bonus and still driving for more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The interest was manageable - the banks wrote of the debts of most Clubs As for Youth Coaches - we could have looked abroad - see what was out there - advertised the role - try and change our outlook - advertised the role - be radical in our approach not just copy every other Scottish Club ? So are we as a Club better off with after the millions of investment ? Clearly yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: Did you not get on the Board or something ? the weirs are not contributing to or subsidising our spending ....if our income in £4m then that’s all we have to spend as there is no bank overdraft facility so financial discipline is key and therefore there is no room for complacency A more cynical person than me would delicately suggest that what JJ is essentially saying is that things were better when he was involved in the club. I’m sure that’s not what is driving his argument but it could certainly be interpreted as such. Edited December 27, 2018 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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