Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Where us your evidence for that statement ...... Various folk contacting club for sponsorship, hospitality, etc with no response. Lack of engagement with fans despite being promised monthly videos. Reliance on the Weirs to pay for Caldwell and his January spending spree. Jagszone has went massively downhill, even though clubs in our league do it better and cheaper, losing the distant fans Edited December 27, 2018 by Norgethistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: That’s the Weirs, but what have the board done to increase revenue, keep and grow fanbase, and plan beyond the Weirs? When the cash from Colin stops we will be in a mess due to us being “complacent “ by putting all our chips on it, instead of classing it as a bonus and still driving for more Another unsubstantiated sweeping statement ....the weirs money is not keeping the club going as it is not a source of revenue so you literally can’t put our chips on it just as a matter of fact the revenue in our last accounts was the highest in the clubs history .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Various folk contacting club for sponsorship, hospitality, etc with no response. Lack of engagement with fans despite being promised monthly videos. Reliance on the Weirs to pay for Caldwell and his January spending spree. Jagszone has went massively downhill, even though clubs in our league do it better and cheaper, losing the distant fans 1. Could be incompetence or made up 2. Your opinion 3. I’d live to see your evidence or did you make it up ? 4. Opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Various folk contacting club for sponsorship, hospitality, etc with no response. Lack of engagement with fans despite being promised monthly videos. Reliance on the Weirs to pay for Caldwell and his January spending spree. Jagszone has went massively downhill, even though clubs in our league do it better and cheaper, losing the distant fans The online ticket site which the club have known is crap for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Assuming we are on a solid financial footing ? and that a deal similiar to the one put forward by stolen scone? is put in place then I would agree - but the devil is in the detial - and thats the bit that worries me My view is when we got the Weir money complacency started on multi levels- and that was the start of our downfall - no critiscm of Colin Weir but if you get free money -you dont have to fight as hard - just my opinion Can't argue with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok - but the facts are the facts - the Weir money has made little or any impact on our position - we were promoted and were in the Premier before there investment - so its clearly demonstrated that there was a sustanable Club - what impact there money has made is subject to opinion my view is that it let to complacency on multi levels and ended up as a negative rather than a positive Again; fair comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, javeajag said: It was reported at agms and when the debt was cleared that the bank would not alter our deal which even included Tom Hughes having to stay as finance director now some specific examples of what you are arguing That was a number of Years ago and before the banks started cutting deals to offload there Football Debt - so the bottom line is we dont know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, javeajag said: Did you not get on the Board or something ? the weirs are not contributing to or subsidising our spending ....if our income in £4m then that’s all we have to spend as there is no bank overdraft facility so financial discipline is key and therefore there is no room for complacency Im a Nutter or have you forgotten ? - How do you know what the Weirs were putting in - either directly or indirectly - there is no breakdown of income - so again we dont know - but if they were paying for things like Youth it meant the Club wasnt funding it - so they were impacting on the bottom line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 59 minutes ago, Emsca said: Clearly yes. we are bottom of the League and Home Crowds heading under 2000 - Youth Academy produced couple of Players - so how are we better off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 56 minutes ago, javeajag said: Another unsubstantiated sweeping statement ....the weirs money is not keeping the club going as it is not a source of revenue so you literally can’t put our chips on it just as a matter of fact the revenue in our last accounts was the highest in the clubs history .... And how much do you think the Revenue will be if we get relegated or at best are in the Championship for a few Seasons ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 41 minutes ago, javeajag said: Another unsubstantiated sweeping statement ....the weirs money is not keeping the club going as it is not a source of revenue so you literally can’t put our chips on it just as a matter of fact the revenue in our last accounts was the highest in the clubs history .... Just read all the threads and what has happened to the Club over the 18 months isn’t complacency but pure and simple bad management by the Board of Directors downwards . In any business standards have to be set , we never seem to have done that , whether it’s the Jags Lottery, buying match tickets , quality of Jagzone etc A good Chief Exec would have sorted all this out. We’ve had a phenomenal opportunity to push the Club forward over the last 5 years with the Weirs investment in the Academy and we’ve blown it big time , either by the standard of coaching at that level or Archibald’s reluctance to give youth a chance and it looks as if Caldwell is going down that route as well as from what I’ve told he has little interest in the Academy. The problems are going to arise in Year 3 after our relegation when there is no parachute payments and our turnover is down to a 1/4 of what it was in the SPFL , that’s when the financial problems will arise . We had a tremendous opportunity to stay in the SPFL but we sleptwalked to a relegation by holding on to Archie too long , unfortunately it looks as if we’re doing the same thing again . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, javeajag said: 1. Could be incompetence or made up 2. Your opinion 3. I’d live to see your evidence or did you make it up ? 4. Opinion 1 various people on here and on FB have stated this 2 Not an opinion, the board stated a monthly update would be given in video form, last one was around 5 weeks ago 3 I have my sources 4 Hardly my opinion, I pay for it and from having live games streamed visually in good quality at home and audio away, we now have audio home and away with highlights taken on 1 camera. Have you watched Queens or Ayrs free highlights? Add to this a club our size and until recently a top tier team had no scouting network is not planning for the future, a training complex and youth academy are useless without a scouting network to identify youths or 1st team or potentials to fill complex or academy with. Planning permission has still not been submitted for the complex even though we were told it would be prior to Xmas, and no communication either. If you think all is hunky dorey then good luck, we are in a mess on and off the park 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Just read all the threads and what has happened to the Club over the 18 months isn’t complacency but pure and simple bad management by the Board of Directors downwards . In any business standards have to be set , we never seem to have done that , whether it’s the Jags Lottery, buying match tickets , quality of Jagzone etc A good Chief Exec would have sorted all this out. We’ve had a phenomenal opportunity to push the Club forward over the last 5 years with the Weirs investment in the Academy and we’ve blown it big time , either by the standard of coaching at that level or Archibald’s reluctance to give youth a chance and it looks as if Caldwell is going down that route as well as from what I’ve told he has little interest in the Academy. The problems are going to arise in Year 3 after our relegation when there is no parachute payments and our turnover is down to a 1/4 of what it was in the SPFL , that’s when the financial problems will arise . We had a tremendous opportunity to stay in the SPFL but we sleptwalked to a relegation by holding on to Archie too long , unfortunately it looks as if we’re doing the same thing again . Ran out of likes,again. Dear Santa can I have more likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 47 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: we are bottom of the League and Home Crowds heading under 2000 - Youth Academy produced couple of Players - so how are we better off We are debt free. If you’re seriously suggesting that doesn’t meant we are better off than when we were saddled with debt then...it’s difficult to know what planet you’re living on. Being debt free, having a youth academy that will bear more fruit in the future, and having a new training ground are inarguably positive things. I’m still struggling to comprehend how it can be argued otherwise. Are you genuinely suggesting if we were not debt free we would be doing better on the pitch? If so then I’m absolutely delighted you’re not on the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulguy jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 50 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Just read all the threads and what has happened to the Club over the 18 months isn’t complacency but pure and simple bad management by the Board of Directors downwards . In any business standards have to be set , we never seem to have done that , whether it’s the Jags Lottery, buying match tickets , quality of Jagzone etc A good Chief Exec would have sorted all this out. We’ve had a phenomenal opportunity to push the Club forward over the last 5 years with the Weirs investment in the Academy and we’ve blown it big time , either by the standard of coaching at that level or Archibald’s reluctance to give youth a chance and it looks as if Caldwell is going down that route as well as from what I’ve told he has little interest in the Academy. The problems are going to arise in Year 3 after our relegation when there is no parachute payments and our turnover is down to a 1/4 of what it was in the SPFL , that’s when the financial problems will arise . We had a tremendous opportunity to stay in the SPFL but we sleptwalked to a relegation by holding on to Archie too long , unfortunately it looks as if we’re doing the same thing again . Spot on. From a position of strength and also in a great position to consolidate when we were top six , this fact I have already commented on, I now find it totally staggering the position we now find ourselves in. The board as you state jlsarmy have made one howling arse of this whole affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 18 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: We are debt free. If you’re seriously suggesting that doesn’t meant we are better off than when we were saddled with debt then...it’s difficult to know what planet you’re living on. Being debt free, having a youth academy that will bear more fruit in the future, and having a new training ground are inarguably positive things. I’m still struggling to comprehend how it can be argued otherwise. Are you genuinely suggesting if we were not debt free we would be doing better on the pitch? If so then I’m absolutely delighted you’re not on the board. Im saying we could have been debt free without the Weirs - even with the debt we were doing ok and how long and how much money do you pump into the Academy before you start questioning the value ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Im saying we could have been debt free without the Weirs - even with the debt we were doing ok and how long and how much money do you pump into the Academy before you start questioning the value ? Okay so let’s say you were still on the board. The Weirs approach you offering investment. How would you have responded beyond your previous suggestion of, eh, hiring foreign youth coaches? Edited December 27, 2018 by KemoAvdiu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said: Okay so let’s say you were still on the board. The Weirs approach you offering investment. How would you have responded beyond your previous suggestion of, eh, hiring foreign youth coaches? Fair question -I would have invested in a Director of Recruitment with a proper Scouting Network not an Academy - have well funded teams from 16 onwards - nothing more - have them playing in European Tournaments on a regular basis advertised the Youth Academy roles wide and far and recruited the best from whatever Country Set up a Futures Fund along the lines of the one described by Stolen Scone have set targets that if the Club didnt meet them - no more funding Most Sports get funding linked to performance so thats standard practice Set up a seperate investment trust board to supervise the cash going in and what the returns were - focus on long term sustainability of the Club - Football and none Football Upgrade the toilets in the JHS the key is performance targets that have to be met and having a seperate supervisory board for the investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: A more cynical person than me would delicately suggest that what JJ is essentially saying is that things were better when he was involved in the club. I’m sure that’s not what is driving his argument but it could certainly be interpreted as such. Actually the key drivers on the Board was defo not me - I was a bit player looking after Fan Marketing and Matchday Experience - but the drivers to our success are no longer on the Board thats important Do I think that the Promotion Year and the first Season in the Premier were successes - Yes - that was down to Directors - Manager - Fans -Players - Coaches -onethistle - lots of people playing there part Do I think it changed on multi levels after the Weir Money - Yes so no agenda - its an opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: 1 various people on here and on FB have stated this 2 Not an opinion, the board stated a monthly update would be given in video form, last one was around 5 weeks ago 3 I have my sources 4 Hardly my opinion, I pay for it and from having live games streamed visually in good quality at home and audio away, we now have audio home and away with highlights taken on 1 camera. Have you watched Queens or Ayrs free highlights? Add to this a club our size and until recently a top tier team had no scouting network is not planning for the future, a training complex and youth academy are useless without a scouting network to identify youths or 1st team or potentials to fill complex or academy with. Planning permission has still not been submitted for the complex even though we were told it would be prior to Xmas, and no communication either. If you think all is hunky dorey then good luck, we are in a mess on and off the park Well hospitality has been regularly selling out as in this Saturday the min video streaming was explained at the time it was stated at the agm that it was planned to submit planning permission in January I have my sources ....Jesus it isn’t James Bond we’re doomed ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: And how much do you think the Revenue will be if we get relegated or at best are in the Championship for a few Seasons ? Less at least £1m plus .....cheers Archie but avoid giving g any evidence to your generalisations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: That was a number of Years ago and before the banks started cutting deals to offload there Football Debt - so the bottom line is we dont know You keep saving banks .....bank of Scotland/Lloyd’s had over 80% of football debt ....what deal did they cut with rangers then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Im saying we could have been debt free without the Weirs - even with the debt we were doing ok and how long and how much money do you pump into the Academy before you start questioning the value ? What was your plan for dealing with our £600k debt ? Cut a deal with a bank that said no deal delusional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 55 minutes ago, javeajag said: What was your plan for dealing with our £600k debt ? Cut a deal with a bank that said no deal delusional They said no deal Years ago then they started cutting deals with other Clubs so your assertion is out of date / I doubt the Weirs paid the full £600k they would have paid a % in the £ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, javeajag said: You keep saving banks .....bank of Scotland/Lloyd’s had over 80% of football debt ....what deal did they cut with rangers then ? Most likely they did as they were desperate to offload the debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.