General Election 2010

[arnus68]

True. I've always said there are people who are involved with the SNP who I'd much rather weren't. Brian Soutar being the obvious example.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. He can shove his money up his exhaust pipe.

[alx]

I'd actually like this too, if there was a proper centre-right party for Scotland. The problem for me is that Scotland is too centre-left. Out of every ten workers in Scotland, six work in the public sector. That's ridiculous for a capitalist country (to be fair it's better than Northern Ireland where it's 7) and far too much of our taxation is to employ civil servants on generous pay and (especially) benefits to do jobs that our government thinks it can do more efficiently and effectively than the private sector. Public sector employees believe they are entitled to these jobs and benefits while too many people are on long-term unemployment, again believing that they are entitled to their benefits. I don't believe they are. I believe the government of this country has a responsibility to shrink the state, free up finance for small business, and get this country creating value again. Sadly any Scottish government to do this would be unelectable for the foreseeable future due to the scale of "creative destruction" (Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) so it will never happen unless it is conducted from London. So I vote Tory.

 

Coming from a left-wing working class SNP family I agree with this. When I was young I was a classic left-wing SNP activist. Now that I'm older and more right-wing than I used to be, I'm still 100% Scottish Nationalist. Scottish Independence isn't necessarily a left/right argument. I support the SNP because I'm a a Scottish Nationalist and I don't agree with every policy the SNP have. (apologies for the typos in posts)

[GrantB]

I'd actually like this too, if there was a proper centre-right party for Scotland. The problem for me is that Scotland is too centre-left. Out of every ten workers in Scotland, six work in the public sector. That's ridiculous for a capitalist country (to be fair it's better than Northern Ireland where it's 7) and far too much of our taxation is to employ civil servants on generous pay and (especially) benefits to do jobs that our government thinks it can do more efficiently and effectively than the private sector. Public sector employees believe they are entitled to these jobs and benefits while too many people are on long-term unemployment, again believing that they are entitled to their benefits. I don't believe they are. I believe the government of this country has a responsibility to shrink the state, free up finance for small business, and get this country creating value again. Sadly any Scottish government to do this would be unelectable for the foreseeable future due to the scale of "creative destruction" (Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) so it will never happen unless it is conducted from London. So I vote Tory.

 

I've never worked in the public sector (and doubt I ever will). However, I believe you have far more chance of achieving your goals of publuc sector cuts in an independent Scotland. If Westminster (especially under Cameron) were to impose it's will on Scotland in such a way, it would go down far worse than if Scotland were to do it by itself.

 

There is quite a lot of Tory policy that I dont have a problem with. A lot of the off putting things about the Tories are the fox hunters, the homophobes and the upper class perceptions and aspirations of their core support. That and David Cameron and George Osbourne being such smarmy, slimy individuals.

[GrantB]

Coming from a left-wing working class SNP family I agree with this. When I was young I was a classic left-wing SNP activist. Now that I'm older and more right-wing than I used to be, I'm still 100% Scottish Nationalist. Scottish Independence isn't necessarily a left/right argument. I support the SNP because I'm a a Scottish Nationalist and I don't agree with every policy the SNP have. (apologies for the typos in posts)

 

Pretty much sums me up as well.

 

I'll never see myself as right wing but I'm certainly not the raving leftie I was in my youth.

[Woodstock Jag]

I think you are doing yourself a disservice. Just because someone is able to type up a couple of pages worth of drivel, it doesn't mean they have more insight into the issues.

 

Sorry, but you've not actually come up with a half-decent argument against the points I was making at all. By your own admission your views on the Conservatives are "fixed" and I strongly suspect that this includes paying selective attention to the things they say and the policies they're putting forward. You link the Tories to job losses in Scotland, and then provide no noticeable exclusive policy link to the Conservatives that makes them any more "dangerous" or "bad" to have in power than Labour or LibDem.

 

I'd actually like this too, if there was a proper centre-right party for Scotland. The problem for me is that Scotland is too centre-left. Out of every ten workers in Scotland, six work in the public sector. That's ridiculous for a capitalist country (to be fair it's better than Northern Ireland where it's 7) and far too much of our taxation is to employ civil servants on generous pay and (especially) benefits to do jobs that our government thinks it can do more efficiently and effectively than the private sector. Public sector employees believe they are entitled to these jobs and benefits while too many people are on long-term unemployment, again believing that they are entitled to their benefits. I don't believe they are. I believe the government of this country has a responsibility to shrink the state, free up finance for small business, and get this country creating value again. Sadly any Scottish government to do this would be unelectable for the foreseeable future due to the scale of "creative destruction" (Turkeys don't vote for Christmas) so it will never happen unless it is conducted from London. So I vote Tory.

 

That sums-up the problem with the country in a nutshell.

 

People aren't "entitled" to a job. They have to earn it.

People shouldn't be "entitled" to benefits unless they would face acute financial hardship without it.

 

Unless the attitude of Scotland changes from entitlement to aspiration, an Independent Scotland would perpetuate rather than obviate the social problems at the root of society.

[GrantB]

Sorry, but you've not actually come up with a half-decent argument against the points I was making at all. By your own admission your views on the Conservatives are "fixed" and I strongly suspect that this includes paying selective attention to the things they say and the policies they're putting forward. You link the Tories to job losses in Scotland, and then provide no noticeable exclusive policy link to the Conservatives that makes them any more "dangerous" or "bad" to have in power than Labour or LibDem.

 

I have neither the time of the inclaination to wade through the 2 pages of waffle you posted earlier.

 

However, your last part just shows up your naieveity. I lived through Tory cuts in Scotland which had a direct result on my ability to get a decent job.

[Jaggernaut]

Coming from a left-wing working class SNP family I agree with this. When I was young I was a classic left-wing SNP activist. Now that I'm older and more right-wing than I used to be, I'm still 100% Scottish Nationalist. Scottish Independence isn't necessarily a left/right argument. I support the SNP because I'm a a Scottish Nationalist and I don't agree with every policy the SNP have. (apologies for the typos in posts)

That's pretty much my view too. I just shake my head when Unionists complain that the SNP are 1) a one-agenda party (independence), 2) too right wing, or 3 (too left wing).

 

I say what the hell difference does it make! The UK has swung from tories to labour and back on a regular basis, and the political balance in an independent Scotland would also most likely sway across decades or general elections.

 

Let get our affairs into our own hands first (all of them, not those that London decides we can run), and then let's sort out the rest later.

[Woodstock Jag]

I have neither the time of the inclaination to wade through the 2 pages of waffle you posted earlier.

 

However, your last part just shows up your naieveity. I lived through Tory cuts in Scotland which had a direct result on my ability to get a decent job.

 

My argument's been rumbled, so I'll peddle the "you weren't there" line

[jaggybunnet]

I have neither the time of the inclaination to wade through the 2 pages of waffle you posted earlier.

 

However, your last part just shows up your naieveity. I lived through Tory cuts in Scotland which had a direct result on my ability to get a decent job.

 

Grant sorry but I lived through Maggie's times and going by the drivel of labour and snp efforts at the moment I would welcome them back, labour have done nothing apart from destroy the UK and snp kid us on when we all know what they really want but (as long as some of us have some sense ) wont get.

 

salmond numbers for trident don't add up and to kid ourselves that the Tories will make anymore cuts than labour will is living in dream world.

 

I didn't mention the lib due to the fact they are irrelevant apart from using them as a tactical vote to keep labour out.

they have little in there manifesto that makes sense or has not been ripped apart

 

I only mentioned snp to keep you happy Grant

 

rant over, now go forth and vote for the Tories unless it is tactically prudent to keep labour out and then vote lib or some other irrelevant party, remember limps, sorry libs know your place.

[The Devil's Point]

 

they have little in there manifesto that makes sense or has not been ripped apart

 

You've read our manifesto?

[jaggybunnet]

You've read our manifesto?

 

 

yes your imigration plans are half arsed and well we might possibly maybe could tax more but???

 

anyway as i said irrelevant

[Woodstock Jag]

To be fair to the LibDems, they're the only ones to have got immigration right. It's a complicated system but if implemented correctly it would address the specific problems the current system creates.

[The Devil's Point]

irrelevant

 

And why will you not be getting your overall majority again?

[jaggybunnet]

And why will you not be getting your overall majority again?

 

 

because people are too blinkered to see what damage labour are doing and too bitter (wrongly IMO) to vote for the party (Tories) that could sort it out.

 

the libs are just there to vote for when you are pissed off with the other two.

 

 

and to prove the point I will be voting libs as a tactical vote to hopefully rid Midlothian of labour and many others on both side will be doing the same, nothing to do with there promises just to make sure the other party doesn't get in.

Edited May 3, 2010 by jaggybunnet

[jaggybunnet]

damn how do you delete a post

Edited May 3, 2010 by jaggybunnet

[The Devil's Point]

damn how do you delete a post

 

 

I have also noticed this Forum doesn't seem to have a delete button

[jaggybunnet]

 

I have also noticed this Forum doesn't seem to have a delete button

 

 

thank god for that, i thought it was just me, its an age thing

[West Ender]

Not only a fantastic ex-manager but now a political genius.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8657486.stm

[Blackpool Jags]

Not only a fantastic ex-manager but now a political genius.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/scotland/8657486.stm

 

Jeezo, does the man's talents have no beginning?

[arnus68]

Jeezo, does the man's talents have no beginning?

 

What is he thinking about ?

 

Early Alzheimer's has set in I think.

[GrantB]

My argument's been rumbled, so I'll peddle the "you weren't there" line

 

What a load of rubbish.

 

I choose to ignore your posts because they are a load of verbal dioreeah as my Tory voting old man used to say.

[GrantB]

Grant sorry but I lived through Maggie's times and going by the drivel of labour and snp efforts at the moment I would welcome them back, labour have done nothing apart from destroy the UK and snp kid us on when we all know what they really want but (as long as some of us have some sense ) wont get.

 

salmond numbers for trident don't add up and to kid ourselves that the Tories will make anymore cuts than labour will is living in dream world.

 

I didn't mention the lib due to the fact they are irrelevant apart from using them as a tactical vote to keep labour out.

they have little in there manifesto that makes sense or has not been ripped apart

 

I only mentioned snp to keep you happy Grant

 

rant over, now go forth and vote for the Tories unless it is tactically prudent to keep labour out and then vote lib or some other irrelevant party, remember limps, sorry libs know your place.

 

Dave, Dave, Dave. We must have a laugh and a political debate once the election is over.

[Woodstock Jag]

What a load of rubbish.

 

I choose to ignore your posts because they are a load of verbal dioreeah as my Tory voting old man used to say.

 

No, you chose to ignore the posts because they raise points you evidently have absolutely no answer to. Just because my political views are contrary to your own and pertain to a party of power mostly outwith my own lifetime doesn't make my argument and opinion any less valid, provided that coherent logic binds it together. You have still to provide me with an answer to my initial two questions:

 

1. What makes you think that the Conservatives will cause classroom assistants to lose their jobs?

2. What makes you think that, if it were the case, Labour and LibDems would not also make the same decision?

 

You need to have a clear grasp of cause and effect to justify political opinion. Based on your evasiveness, I've got to conclude you're struggling in that regard.

[garryc]

I'm very saddened to see some of my fellow Jags Fans have said they will vote BNP in the poll.

Those facists should never be given air time let alone votes

[The Devil's Point]

I'm very saddened to see some of my fellow Jags Fans have said they will vote BNP in the poll.

Those facists should never be given air time let alone votes

 

Find it quite hard to believe that 5% of Jags vote BNP.

Edited May 4, 2010 by The Devil's Point