mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Lets face it, scottish football is ******. its financially unsustainable, the crowds are dwindling, and atm we are witnessing yet another piece of legistlation designed to deal with the 'sectarian problem' that is going to make football even more deficit in terms of atmosphere. often times we hear people saying on this forum stuff along the lines of 'going to the juniors better atmosphere, more liberal policing, saner alcohol laws etc' so why not apply this concept a bit more generally. at the moment we are about to go part time, as are everybody else our position, effectivly we are going junior but were still gonna have high overheads associated with senior football and less capactity to deal wiht it because of dwindling crowds. our ground is getting dismantled, crowds smaller, ever shitter atmosphere. so why not just sell up, make an application into the junior league and share lochburn park? imagine our shitty crowd level in that place, except this time its jam packed, more liberal atmosphere, booze on the flow, cheaper at the gate. all those factors put together, makes the recipie conducive to stimulating our crowd figures, at first face, seems like a leftfield idea, but not so under closer investigation. if other clubs were to follow suit wed be effectivly transferring scottish football onto a platform more in line with what we like about football, thus perfect sense, luvlie jublie etc clydebank fans seem to like it. Edited May 28, 2011 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 That would just be throwing in the towel. Never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 28, 2011 Members Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Even the Juniors are struggling these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 yes, that is true, however with our crowd sizes and any money made from selling firhill compltely would put us in a very good position financially vis-a-vis other junior clubs. If a few teams where to do thus bring ing established rivarly into the leagues it would keep crowd levels to a sufficient level to make that sustainable. we are not sustainiable in the status quo, no club in senior football is barring the old firm. this would be a simple way to go about bringing down the overheads asscociated witht football and also the dull atmosphere issue. as said earlier its a leftfield idea, the question is will it seem such a leftfield idea when the 150 odd thistle fans left are discussion how to set up an fc of pt into the junior set up ten years from now when we are bust???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 We're about to go part time? That'll be news to the players on full time contracts until May 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonjag Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Downsizing Cheapest option again I hope to hell the Board don't read this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Nonsensical suggestion from the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) We are at the end of the era of full time player, make no mistake. 2013 aint that far away, what is gonna change in 2 years that will make full time football sustainable from that point? Fairy Godmother, easter bunny, santa claus perhaps? Nonsensical? Maybe? But you havent demonstrated why this is so. Let me tell you what i think is nonsensical, arguing for change on the basis of league expansion - not going to happen, only thing on the agenda is making spl smaller. cheaper prices - not going to happen, no sign of overheads diminshing, crowds falling accross the board etc better competition between the teams - not going to happen, any change will be to accentuate the difference between the old firm and the rest. old firm needs to be in europe is the standard line put out. thistle becomming bigger on basis of great glasgow alternative. - weve been saying that for years, were getting smaller, the great glasgow alternative is the premiership, and if thats not already eating into the old firms revenue it will do soon. better atmosphere to stimulate crowds - hows that going to happen, laws are getting tougher. fans coming together to put pressure to implement these changes. hmm seems promising on the basis taht scottish football is still one of the most attended football leagues in the world per head of population. sadly though this growth has been through the concentration of old firms fans at the expense of rest of fans. the numbers are not even there to put somethign like that into touch and even if we did have the numbers we have no fans organisation representing the fans other than a government quango (supporters direct). our idea of doing something is making a phonecall to clyde fm or moaning on this forum. etc yet all the debate we have as fans in all the teams is on this basis. its time to start thinking fresh ideas. do you have any??? Edited May 28, 2011 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Nonsensical suggestion from the OP. This. What a load of utter nonsense. The only way Thistle should go junior is if we go the same way as the Bankies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 im hurt grant. what ideas do you have out of interest? as said earlier, leftfield idea at first glance. will it seem so in ten years time when there is a get together of a tiny contingent of thistle fans post being bust with no assets to get us into junour football in an advantagous position?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Downsizing Cheapest option again I hope to hell the Board don't read this forum. i hope they do! maybe i should send them this idea via email Edited May 28, 2011 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Even the Juniors are struggling these days. Yip, even the Junior clubs with the ultras sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted May 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 id rather have this. but the junior idea is still better than the standard debate surrounding our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 id rather have this. but the junior idea is still better than the standard debate surrounding our game. the crowds would drop to nothing as why would the majority (who are clinging on as it is) go to see jounior football. i know it is left feild but still baffiling what you think thistle would get out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Juniors are shite, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 The OP has not only came up with the craziest idea ive heard he is also able to predict the future. A band of 150 Thistle fans? Behave yersel...cant figure out if you are a panic merchant or just generally a glass half empty wi just a sip left at the bottom sorta person. The ONLY way forward for Scottish football is for league reconstruction (all leagues) to get rid of the 4 times a season crap and allow team bosses to get back to trying to win games instead of setting up not to lose them. Increased leagues would also offer extra security, or less risk, when blooding youngsters. Never happen? While the OF monopolize everything (and all that TV seem to want to show) probably not, but something has to change and change fast. Progress is needed and 'becoming junior' would not represent that. As for atmoshpere at the ground, seems the same band of 30/50 people are the only ones interested in trying to create an atmosphere. Move this group to where the kids zone is and put the kids zone where the shed is and immediately the atmosphere improves. The Shed (as in the original) is remembered fondly because of the close proximity to the away fans which generated a good atmosphere even with crowds less than those we have now. Ideally we could sell Firhill and have a smaller stadium built elsewhere, but that aint gona happen after the Propco lot start their construction work. Would also be unlikely to get enough money to build a stadium that would meet SPL requirements, think it would cost more than the £3/4m Firhill is apparently worth (if it's even worth that much). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicofan Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 The OP has not only came up with the craziest idea ive heard he is also able to predict the future. A band of 150 Thistle fans? Behave yersel...cant figure out if you are a panic merchant or just generally a glass half empty wi just a sip left at the bottom sorta person. The ONLY way forward for Scottish football is for league reconstruction (all leagues) to get rid of the 4 times a season crap and allow team bosses to get back to trying to win games instead of setting up not to lose them. Increased leagues would also offer extra security, or less risk, when blooding youngsters. Never happen? While the OF monopolize everything (and all that TV seem to want to show) probably not, but something has to change and change fast. Progress is needed and 'becoming junior' would not represent that. As for atmoshpere at the ground, seems the same band of 30/50 people are the only ones interested in trying to create an atmosphere. Move this group to where the kids zone is and put the kids zone where the shed is and immediately the atmosphere improves. The Shed (as in the original) is remembered fondly because of the close proximity to the away fans which generated a good atmosphere even with crowds less than those we have now. Ideally we could sell Firhill and have a smaller stadium built elsewhere, but that aint gona happen after the Propco lot start their construction work. Would also be unlikely to get enough money to build a stadium that would meet SPL requirements, think it would cost more than the £3/4m Firhill is apparently worth (if it's even worth that much). I would be all for this happening...a fit for purpose stadium on the other side of the canal would have been ideal. As for this Junior talk...I am quite simply outraged that there is a thread about this! One of the things that keeps you going well for me anyway..is the hope that we can back to the top level and play the ugly sisters as the atmosphere is always dynamite..until or if indeed we ever get there you just have to hope we draw the buggers in one of the cups! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Lets face it, scottish football is ******. its financially unsustainable, the crowds are dwindling, and atm we are witnessing yet another piece of legistlation designed to deal with the 'sectarian problem' that is going to make football even more deficit in terms of atmosphere. often times we hear people saying on this forum stuff along the lines of 'going to the juniors better atmosphere, more liberal policing, saner alcohol laws etc' so why not apply this concept a bit more generally. at the moment we are about to go part time, as are everybody else our position, effectivly we are going junior but were still gonna have high overheads associated with senior football and less capactity to deal wiht it because of dwindling crowds. our ground is getting dismantled, crowds smaller, ever shitter atmosphere. so why not just sell up, make an application into the junior league and share lochburn park? imagine our shitty crowd level in that place, except this time its jam packed, more liberal atmosphere, booze on the flow, cheaper at the gate. all those factors put together, makes the recipie conducive to stimulating our crowd figures, at first face, seems like a leftfield idea, but not so under closer investigation. if other clubs were to follow suit wed be effectivly transferring scottish football onto a platform more in line with what we like about football, thus perfect sense, luvlie jublie etc clydebank fans seem to like it. why not go the whole hog, go amateur & play in the Sunday Pub League, Get a grip FFS, we're a senior team & have been for more than a century. Sure we may have to go part-time but so will many others. It's the kind of moronic suggestion I expect from sigesige or whatever he's called Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 Dear God, where to start? I suppose the only positive thing out of this thread is the outright rejection of what has to be the daftest suggestion to ever make it onto this forum. As far as I can see the 'atmosphere' which some folk are attracted to at Junior games is the opportunity to get pissed and shout obscene insults at all and sundry 'cos the 'sensible' policing policy allows it - it certainly isn't an atmosphere created by the crowd. Are Thistle fans particularly susceptible to despair? I can't imagine a fan of Dundee, Falkirk, Morton, Queen of the South, or any other professional clubs if it comes to that, suggesting that they go Junior. I was going to write more but I've just realised I can't .... I'm speechless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 I struggle to see why Thistle would go bust, or cease to exist, or whatever, in 10 years time? The only reason a Club should find this fate is if it attempts to live beyond it's means. Also, there are only a certain amount of Clubs in the country, not enough clubs to employ all the players on high wages. Therefore the average wage level among full-time clubs would come down, if a player cannot live on this money then he must go part-time and supplement his living by working in a full-time job. Full-time football was around long before the advent of TV deals etc, players just earned less. However, you will probably find now that with most full-time clubs outwith the SPL, a fair number of supporters will be earning more than the players they are watching. The SPL is where the majority of problems lie, some of these clubs are in shitloads of debt and none of them can service the levels they are at except the h*ns and Tims because of their fanbase. Granted the atmosphere is shite at times, and crowds are down. That could change though, if wage levels drop and football is more affordable, the punters might come back. Its just a shame that before all this happened, clubs in Scotland crippled themselves by building unneccessary stadiums, the law tar everyone with the same brush where alchohol at the game is concerned. The life has been drained from the game in this counrty because we tried to be bigger and better than is possible, the 'family-friendly atmosphere' idea also contributed to the downfall. That all said though, its not broken beyond repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 The biggest problem with the SFL is the lack of quality teams, and I think it's time for them to look at getting rid of the Second and Third Divisions. When you consider that England has 50 million people and five divisions, it seems ridiculous for a country of about 5.2 million to try to sustain four divisions - especially when two teams in that country account for about 50% of the entire country's football attendance (according to numbers from ESPN.com, Old Firm drew 1,791,188 in home attendance, all other teams in SPL, First, Second and Third combined for 1,990,143). Even Ireland, which is much more comparable to Scotland in terms of population, only operates two divisions. Cutting the 2nd and 3rd divisions would at least allow other SPL and First Division teams to pluck some of the talent away, improving the quality at the higher tiers. Improve the quality, improve the fan base. The other problem is the Old Firm isn't an accurate portrayal of Scottish football - they belong in the EPL. It's not good for your league's prestige if the same two teams finish at the top for the past 15 years (save that one year Hearts jumped in) and can outdistance themselves from the competition by 30 points in any given year. It's like having someone win your election with 100% of the vote. It'd be like the BBC televising William and Kate renewing their wedding vows every friggin year. It just takes the lustre off the thing as a whole. Honestly, I'd be surprised if their own fan bases don't start growing disinterested. If you're a fan of Celtic, I'd imagine it's not winning the SPL that thrills you anymore - it's knowing that Rangers didn't. Other than playing Rangers a few times a year, the season becomes a months-long waiting period until you can get another crack at Champions League. At when you fail to make a dent there, you probably start to wish you were able to hone your skills against better competition during the season. So in a way, having Rangers and Celtic be as dominant as they are hurts everyone - including Rangers and Celtic. But at the rate the SFL is going, I'd sooner expect them to put the OF in a two-team "Superfriends Premier League". Imagine the promotional push: "Like watching Rangers play Celtic? Well how would you like it.....<American monster truck rally advert voice> THIRTY-EIGHT TIMES A YEAR!!!!" Then they can up the ante by having special promotions - first 1,000 fans at Ibrox get a free brick. First 1,000 fans at Celtic Park get lighter fluid and a bow-and-arrow set. Maybe once their fan bases tear each other apart, the rest of the league will get the chance to dream of titles again. Sorry, that became real rant-like toward the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted May 29, 2011 Report Share Posted May 29, 2011 What a crap post from the original poster. He's clearly a sellick fan on the wind up, going by his previous posts. He's best ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erzamacaroonbars Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 No we shouldn't go junior, but the Ugly Sisters should! Already the atmosphere at some junior games is poisonous, drink fuelled hatred, so its only natural the OF would fit right in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 I struggle to see why Thistle would go bust, or cease to exist, or whatever, in 10 years time? The only reason a Club should find this fate is if it attempts to live beyond it's means. Also, there are only a certain amount of Clubs in the country, not enough clubs to employ all the players on high wages. Therefore the average wage level among full-time clubs would come down, if a player cannot live on this money then he must go part-time and supplement his living by working in a full-time job. Full-time football was around long before the advent of TV deals etc, players just earned less. However, you will probably find now that with most full-time clubs outwith the SPL, a fair number of supporters will be earning more than the players they are watching. The SPL is where the majority of problems lie, some of these clubs are in shitloads of debt and none of them can service the levels they are at except the h*ns and Tims because of their fanbase. Granted the atmosphere is shite at times, and crowds are down. That could change though, if wage levels drop and football is more affordable, the punters might come back. Its just a shame that before all this happened, clubs in Scotland crippled themselves by building unneccessary stadiums, the law tar everyone with the same brush where alchohol at the game is concerned. The life has been drained from the game in this counrty because we tried to be bigger and better than is possible, the 'family-friendly atmosphere' idea also contributed to the downfall. That all said though, its not broken beyond repair. In general a very good post but I have to ask...Why is the "Family Friendly Atmosphere" contributing to the downfall? Football should be for everyone to enjoy. If teams like Partick Thistle are to prosper then we have to cater for families and more than most the children. They are the future of the club. Of course we need to generate a better atmosphere at Firhill and I've for a long time been saying one way to do that is to move the kids zone to where the "shed" is and have the "shed" where the current kids zone is. While it won't totally fix the issue it would be a good start. Can't help but feel that the "Family Section" at Firhill is looked upon with resentment by some of the more established supporters of the club. Surely in this age there is a place for us all and we can all play our part in a brighter future for Partick Thistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted May 30, 2011 Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 We should not EVER turn Junior nor should we continue to debate the preposterous possibility that one day we might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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