Dundee And Hamilton Highlights

[potty trained]

here

[Mr Bunny]

From these highlights the penalty against Dundee looks like a complete dive; the one against Hamilton, maybe yes but very soft. A lot of refs wouldn't have given it - minimal contact barely on the line and going away from goal.

[potty trained]

after watching them, i think we can say that every single Thistle fan would be claiming for a penalty if these incidents happenned at the other end of the park.

 

Objectively, Archie body checks, obstructs him... And Robertson trips him.

 

Both soft, but if we were the attacking team, we would have been screaming for a penalty.

[ian_mac]

Listen, the games are both done now. Whether they were penalties or not, doesn't matter any more. Jackie greeting about them in interviews certainly won't help.

 

What I'm worried about is the fact that Jackie seems to think we played well in both these games. In my opinion we certainly did not.

 

We should have burried Dundee long before that penalty was given. Against Hamilton we were simply passed off the park.

 

So the fact that Jackie thinks these performances were acceptable rings the alarm bells for me and history suggests that managers who set low standards do not last very long at all.

[p12tfc]

Watch the penalty being taken by Dundee. Not 1 Jags player is chasing it in incase Fox saves it. Granted, Fox saving it appears to be extremely unlikely ........

[Alan Murray]

I can understand why the ref gave the dundee one, but it was a dive, Hamilton one looks a dive as well. Linesman never put flag even though it was right in front of him.

[twinny]

Listen, the games are both done now. Whether they were penalties or not, doesn't matter any more. Jackie greeting about them in interviews certainly won't help.

 

What I'm worried about is the fact that Jackie seems to think we played well in both these games. In my opinion we certainly did not.

 

We should have burried Dundee long before that penalty was given. Against Hamilton we were simply passed off the park.

 

So the fact that Jackie thinks these performances were acceptable rings the alarm bells for me and history suggests that managers who set low standards do not last very long at all.

 

I think that is a bit harsh, he's made it clear when things are unacceptable but slating the players can have negative effects on performances, and blaming external factors allows players to keep their confidence.

 

I wasn't at the games, but from what I hear against Dundee we played all the football and they scored the goal. That's how our games against Dundee have gone typically over the past two or more years. We need to improve on finishing these chances as plenty were being created. Against Hamilton we were up against one of the best teams in the division, and from the highlights (which admittedly could be biased) there were some good moves and half decent chances created, we just keep fluffing them, making the wrong decisions or misplacing passes in the final third. I wouldn't have a clue how to improve this, but Jackie and Sid need to figure this out ASAP.

 

For what it's worth, I saw the two penalty incidents as dives. For the Dundee one, Archie didn't even make a challenge, it's incredible that the penalty was given. For the Hamilton one, I felt Robertson didn't really make a challenge, but had his hands all over the forwards back, which can encourage players to go down as it can look like a push (watch Kris Boyd or Mark Roberts for very good examples of this).

[ian_mac]

A bad start to the season simply isn't good enough Twinny. The first few games define what the crowds for the rest of the season will be, history has show this.

 

All the optimism taken from the celtic game has now gone, with a performance that now appears to be nothing more than a flash in the pan. The performances since that game have been ordinary at best (stenny). The Berwick game will go down as one of the worst results in our recent history.

 

In my opinion we should have hammered Dundee on Saturday. They will struggle along with ourselves this season. The hamilton game wasn't one I expected to win but i would have expected a better performance.

 

I have concerns about Jackie and Sid's ability to motivate plaers. They appear a bit too laid back and quiet for my liking.

[twinny]

A bad start to the season simply isn't good enough Twinny. The first few games define what the crowds for the rest of the season will be, history has show this.

 

All the optimism taken from the celtic game has now gone, with a performance that now appears to be nothing more than a flash in the pan. The performances since that game have been ordinary at best (stenny). The Berwick game will go down as one of the worst results in our recent history.

 

In my opinion we should have hammered Dundee on Saturday. They will struggle along with ourselves this season. The hamilton game wasn't one I expected to win but i would have expected a better performance.

 

I have concerns about Jackie and Sid's ability to motivate plaers. They appear a bit too laid back and quiet for my liking.

 

I can't argue with much there

[Alan Murray]

A bad start to the season simply isn't good enough Twinny. The first few games define what the crowds for the rest of the season will be, history has show this.

 

All the optimism taken from the celtic game has now gone, with a performance that now appears to be nothing more than a flash in the pan. The performances since that game have been ordinary at best (stenny). The Berwick game will go down as one of the worst results in our recent history.

 

In my opinion we should have hammered Dundee on Saturday. They will struggle along with ourselves this season. The hamilton game wasn't one I expected to win but i would have expected a better performance.

 

I have concerns about Jackie and Sid's ability to motivate plaers. They appear a bit too laid back and quiet for my liking.

 

I think Dundee will do well, if they get a good striker I think they could win this league. Hamilton will not be far away, but again they need a striker.

[Ruchillnomore]

Just watched the penalty at Hamilton. The 2 main differnces between the 2 penalties taking the issue of diving out of it are that Alan Archiebald had to make a tackle of sorts however with the Hamilton player he is going away from goal so Robertson really had no requirement to put any hands on....especially in that area. With no hands on the issue of dodgy refereeing decisions and dives is taken right out of it. To be honest it is really the poor basics of defending with someone going away from goal.

[1 John Lambie]

Just watched the penalty at Hamilton. The 2 main differnces between the 2 penalties taking the issue of diving out of it are that Alan Archiebald had to make a tackle of sorts however with the Hamilton player he is going away from goal so Robertson really had no requirement to put any hands on....especially in that area. With no hands on the issue of dodgy refereeing decisions and dives is taken right out of it. To be honest it is really the poor basics of defending with someone going away from goal.

 

Agree, as I said after the match, it was a harsh decision but he shouldn't have put the player in a position where he was able to go down. Stay close, but don't touch him.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Just watched the penalty at Hamilton. The 2 main differnces between the 2 penalties taking the issue of diving out of it are that Alan Archiebald had to make a tackle of sorts however with the Hamilton player he is going away from goal so Robertson really had no requirement to put any hands on....especially in that area. With no hands on the issue of dodgy refereeing decisions and dives is taken right out of it. To be honest it is really the poor basics of defending with someone going away from goal.

Agree but on both occasions the official with the clearest view was the linesman. Evidently the Hamilton one said it wasn't a penalty.

As someone else pointed out it looks like that since all that nonsense up at Tannadice last season the linesman's duties have been marginalised. Whether it was naivety or not, and I tend to agree it looks that way certainly with Robertson, both Riley & Imrie probably dived or to use the vernacular went down easy.

I'm less seething about us appearing to have been conned more that referees won't ask for or accept a second opinion. It's all very well folk saying that if it was at the other end we'd be shouting for a penalty or it'll all even out throughout the season. That may well be true but it just makes the game we watch that more ridiculous.

[Steven H]

Agree but on both occasions the official with the clearest view was the linesman. Evidently the Hamilton one said it wasn't a penalty.

As someone else pointed out it looks like that since all that nonsense up at Tannadice last season the linesman's duties have been marginalised. Whether it was naivety or not, and I tend to agree it looks that way certainly with Robertson, both Riley & Imrie probably dived or to use the vernacular went down easy.

I'm less seething about us appearing to have been conned more that referees won't ask for or accept a second opinion. It's all very well folk saying that if it was at the other end we'd be shouting for a penalty or it'll all even out throughout the season. That may well be true but it just makes the game we watch that more ridiculous.

 

Agreed but if Buchanan had went down the way Riley did no way would we be screaming for a pen, we'd be shouting at Liam to get his arese up (as we have done on one or two occassions). The Hamilton one is a bit more in the Andy Walker School Of Making The Ref Make A Decision, the Dundee one was clearly a player running straight into Archie and doing a dying swan impersonation.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Agreed but if Buchanan had went down the way Riley did no way would we be screaming for a pen, we'd be shouting at Liam to get his arese up (as we have done on one or two occassions). The Hamilton one is a bit more in the Andy Walker School Of Making The Ref Make A Decision, the Dundee one was clearly a player running straight into Archie and doing a dying swan impersonation.

My point tho' is that the linesman evidently if consulted could have influenced the ref to change his mind. I don't mean it to sound all sour grapes but if this is ref policy post Tannadice then we're in for a season of dying swans. Bad enough just about every team has their designated diver, the refs usually know who they are but now it'll be anyone in the team.

[Jaggernaut]

Whether we're in for a new wave of diving or not, it's worth commenting that teams have been getting the opportunity to dive in our box at the end of the match. Aren't we creating the same kinds of situations at the other end (leading to a blatant penalty, of course; our players would never dive)?

 

Oh, cannae bring myself to watch either of those highlights.

[twinny]

My point tho' is that the linesman evidently if consulted could have influenced the ref to change his mind. I don't mean it to sound all sour grapes but if this is ref policy post Tannadice then we're in for a season of dying swans. Bad enough just about every team has their designated diver, the refs usually know who they are but now it'll be anyone in the team.

 

I fear this might be true, as there has been quite a lot of diving in English games I have watched lately. Particularly in the Wimbledon vs Bristol match last weekend:

 

13 min: Anyinsah picks up the ball in the centre circle. He's got no options, so decides to pelt straight for the box. As he enters it, he's nudged by Gwillim, but stays on his feet. Half a second later, he decides to go down, throwing himself to the turf in the most preposterous fashion. The referee arrives on the scene after a fashion, waving his yellow card again, as seems to be his wont.

 

...

 

30 min: Anyinsah has been very impressive down the right, but he also appears to have a head made out of pure brick. He's already been booked for one ludicrous dive. Now, losing the ball in the box to a magnificent toe-poke from Gwillim, he flings himself to the floor, arching his back theatrically, nipples and tig first. That's pure simulation, and deserving of another booking, really; he should be walking off. Dearie me.

 

I couldn't believe he escaped a second booking, as 'dying swan' didn't even get close to describing this second one.

[Steven H]

My point tho' is that the linesman evidently if consulted could have influenced the ref to change his mind. I don't mean it to sound all sour grapes but if this is ref policy post Tannadice then we're in for a season of dying swans. Bad enough just about every team has their designated diver, the refs usually know who they are but now it'll be anyone in the team.

 

Yeah I got that, my view is the linesman should consult the ref if he disagrees with the decision rather than wait for the ref to consult with him/her, BUT given the point you raise re Tannadice, perhaps the policy has changed or assistant refs are reluctant to do so. Didn't the assistant ref in the Tannadice thing get hung out to dry and quit as a result?

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

McNamara's comments have annoyed me. The bottom line is that we did NOT do enough to win the match against Hamilton. Scott Fox made 4 or 5 excellent saves, while I can remember us having one meaningful attack, and various long range efforts. Whining about a penalty doesn't wash, particularly as there were hands involved. If that had been one of our players we would have been screaming blue murder, same goes for Dundee game.

 

The key issue in our side is a lack of cutting edge. McNamara hailed the advent of the 4-3-3, SO WHY ARE WE PLAYING 4-4-2, thats what I want to know.

 

TIME TO LOOK FORWARD NOW, A POINT AT FALKIRK IS A GREAT RESULT.

[Steven H]

McNamara's comments have annoyed me. The bottom line is that we did NOT do enough to win the match against Hamilton. Scott Fox made 4 or 5 excellent saves, while I can remember us having one meaningful attack, and various long range efforts. Whining about a penalty doesn't wash, particularly as there were hands involved. If that had been one of our players we would have been screaming blue murder, same goes for Dundee game.

 

The key issue in our side is a lack of cutting edge. McNamara hailed the advent of the 4-3-3, SO WHY ARE WE PLAYING 4-4-2, thats what I want to know.

 

TIME TO LOOK FORWARD NOW, A POINT AT FALKIRK IS A GREAT RESULT.

 

Correct, to a point. Both games should have been wrapped up long before the penalties (Dundee game in our favour and the Hamilton game in their favour) but they weren't and I think Jackie is right to feel aggreived by the dubious penalty decisions AS LONG AS he ALSO accepts we have some worrying shortfalls in the final 3rd (I think he has accepted that, lets just hope he can sort it).

 

I think the disaster of the Berwick game prompted the switch in formation but I think we'll see 4-3-3 at various points over the season.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Steven H

[angry gaz]

Not pretty veiwing anyway you look at it.Both soft penalties but Dundee's was such a blatent dive it's unbelivable the ref gave.Didn't realise it was a defo handball either at the match,he clearly keeps it out the net with his paw.

Our big problem IS th performance and not piss poor refs.Our final ball is shocking and our strikers last option seems to be a shot at goal when it should be the first

[Chicofan]

Listen, the games are both done now. Whether they were penalties or not, doesn't matter any more. Jackie greeting about them in interviews certainly won't help.

 

What I'm worried about is the fact that Jackie seems to think we played well in both these games. In my opinion we certainly did not.

 

We should have burried Dundee long before that penalty was given. Against Hamilton we were simply passed off the park.

 

So the fact that Jackie thinks these performances were acceptable rings the alarm bells for me and history suggests that managers who set low standards do not last very long at all.

 

100% correct,never a fckn penalty though