GrantB Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Went to see Clyde earlier this season in a midweek game and they were absolutely rank rotten. If the Jags ever fell to that level, I don't think I'd have the heart to go week in week out. I barely have the heart to watch us at the present time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Indeed. Skint, outvoted when it comes to Propco decisions - which are made by the same people who make club decisions but only Propco is likely to make any money so go figure - and stuck with a curate's egg of a stadium. Not that fan opinion matters. McK To be honest there was never a dissenting voice even prior to the current Board set up -lest you forget Tom & Eddie also invested so there was always a majority on the Board in favour of Propco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Interesting post -its worth remembering that not that long ago Clyde just missed out on promotion to the SPL against Inverness -reality is we have not been serious contenders since we were relegated from it and managed to drop two divisions in succesive Seasons. The key difference is Clyde being based in Cumbernauld which seriously affected there crowds -ours have held up but have been declining over the last 12 months. Bottom line is we have no God given right to Division 1 and our fanbase -so yes we could end up like Clyde. As pointed out in another thread we were a heartbeat behind them last year and only due to the support of certian Directors and there Business connections are we not Clyde. Clyde missed out on promotion when they ignored their rent bills and spent the money on players. The reason they are so rubbish now is because they are now paying the backdated rent on top of what they pay currently, and it is crippling them. They do deserve it, but at the same time, I've heard they don't make any money at all from gate receipts as they don't own the ground (which is terrible if true), so I'm happy for them if they do move away, and would welcome them at Firhill if the EK thing doesn't come off. Clyde's crowds in the final ten years at Shawfield and the first ten years at Broadwood were pretty similar. Their problem with crowds now is that they're playing division three standard football. No club does, and Clyde got their attempt at a division one title through cheating. As long as we stay healthy financially, we're never going to division three Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 McK To be honest there was never a dissenting voice even prior to the current Board set up -lest you forget Tom & Eddie also invested so there was always a majority on the Board in favour of Propco. JJ, I'm sure the Propco idea was started with the best of intentions and I can see a scenario where it would benefit the club. However, I'm impatient and the lack of evident progress with this little enterprise fills me with dread. The way I feel is like I'm watching the long, slow death of a loved one while the snake oil salesmen are chapping at the door. Maybe I'm wrong, but this has become a huge (lack of) trust issue with fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 As long as we stay healthy financially, we're never going to division three 'Stay' healthy? Do you believe our club is in a healthy situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I don't have the figures for what the away supports for the 2 Dundee & 2 Morton games were for this season compared to last season but even if they were larger that would not alone account for the increase. At this time last season we had only played both Dundee & Morton once at home. Incidentally attendances for the two Dundee games are about the same this season as last whereas Morton attendances are up a combined 1200. We've got 5 home games left this season with only the game against Falkirk likely to attract a sizable away support. Last season at this time we still had home games against Dundee, Morton & Falkirk to play. Not sure what all that means but I imagine by the end of the season our average home attendance won't be anything like 400 more on last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 'Stay' healthy? Do you believe our club is in a healthy situation? No. But I don't think we're significantly worse off than most clubs in this division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 At this time last season we had only played both Dundee & Morton once at home. Incidentally attendances for the two Dundee games are about the same this season as last whereas Morton attendances are up a combined 1200. We've got 5 home games left this season with only the game against Falkirk likely to attract a sizable away support. Last season at this time we still had home games against Dundee, Morton & Falkirk to play. Not sure what all that means but I imagine by the end of the season our average home attendance won't be anything like 400 more on last season. Thanks for that. I think it means that we both need to get out more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) JJ, I'm sure the Propco idea was started with the best of intentions and I can see a scenario where it would benefit the club. However, I'm impatient and the lack of evident progress with this little enterprise fills me with dread. The way I feel is like I'm watching the long, slow death of a loved one while the snake oil salesmen are chapping at the door. Maybe I'm wrong, but this has become a huge (lack of) trust issue with fans. Mck In simple terms unless we go bust Propco has no impact on PTFC -we do not own the land anymore and ceased to own it as soon as the deal went through and for the record that happened under the auspices of the previous Directors -so the nett afect of the changes in the Boardroom are zero regards Propco- there is nothing to vote on regards the land - it was taken out of control of PTFC when we set up Propco. PTFC have one vote in five on the Propco Board -even if the Club DID dissent its still outvoted on Propco -Mr Hughes as far as I can remember represented PTFC in the negotations with Propco -this was long long long before anyone from Europa was involved in PTFC. You seem to think there is a link -well there is not -Propco has no bearing on the future of PTFC -cashflow will have a far greater impact than Propco and dare I say it performance on the park. Edited February 26, 2012 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Doesn't the club have a right to a share in propco profits, should there be any? Not that any of this matters, as nothing at the club ever actually goes through. Edited February 26, 2012 by PaleGreySky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thistle4tw Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I am more interested as to who u could say our rivals are . Airdrie don't look like coming back anytime soon. Clyde naw. We should realistically create a new derby match as I miss those. Dundee anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I am more interested as to who u could say our rivals are . Airdrie don't look like coming back anytime soon. Clyde naw. We should realistically create a new derby match as I miss those. Dundee anyone? I've always felt the nearest to a derby match we've played in has been against Airdrie. For decades I could never get that excited about playing Clyde tho' i got the impression that Clyde fans seemed to take playing us as a serious derby. Not having some sort of grudge/derby type match costs us. Even when we're mid table going nowhere we'd at least have one or two games to look forward to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I am more interested as to who u could say our rivals are . Airdrie don't look like coming back anytime soon. Clyde naw. We should realistically create a new derby match as I miss those. Dundee anyone? Arguably Morton. Matches against them have been good when they've had players like Andy McLaren, and always good to have a laugh at Colin Stewart. I agree they're not really rivals but they're in the same boat as they won't be joining St Mirren in the SPL any time soon. I enjoy wins against them and Dundee more than any other team in the division, so with the proximity I would choose Morton as a rival, but it would be a bit too artificial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Mck In simple terms unless we go bust Propco has no impact on PTFC -we do not own the land anymore and ceased to own it as soon as the deal went through and for the record that happened under the auspices of the previous Directors -so the nett afect of the changes in the Boardroom are zero regards Propco- there is nothing to vote on regards the land - it was taken out of control of PTFC when we set up Propco. PTFC have one vote in five on the Propco Board -even if the Club DID dissent its still outvoted on Propco -Mr Hughes as far as I can remember represented PTFC in the negotations with Propco -this was long long long before anyone from Europa was involved in PTFC. You seem to think there is a link -well there is not -Propco has no bearing on the future of PTFC -cashflow will have a far greater impact than Propco and dare I say it performance on the park. 'Propco has no impact on PTFC'. That's nonsense given that the main decision-makers in both companies are the same people. Unless there's some miracle around the corner, the football at Firhill is not going to keep those nice folk in the manner to which they've become accustomed. Selling land will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I am more interested as to who u could say our rivals are . Airdrie don't look like coming back anytime soon. Clyde naw. We should realistically create a new derby match as I miss those. Dundee anyone? AFC Rangers? Doncaster Rangers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 PTFC have one vote in five on the Propco Board -even if the Club DID dissent its still outvoted on Propco -Mr Hughes as far as I can remember represented PTFC in the negotations with Propco -this was long long long before anyone from Europa was involved in PTFC. But the highlighted point would presumably require directors of propco, who are presumably for what propco proposes, to then use the vote for that Thistle holds, that's just to right in my mind, it's a clear conflict on interests. The fact that Thistle have a vote in propco is irrelevant as there's a 99% chance the vote won't mean a thing. For me, even though the vote is more than likely worthless, a group of supporters should be brought together, discuss any issues required & come to a plan on how to use the vote. At least the vote then means something in the eyes of the fans & the decision that was made (for or against) can then be explained to the greater fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The directors of the club have a duty to exercise their right to vote to the benefit of the company that they are directors of. If they do not do so, they can be held to account by the shareholders. I'm not exactly sure who own the shares in thistle are precisely, but I think it's predominantly the same people as are directors. However, this is where the jags trust should come in, if it were an effective fans representative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 'Propco has no impact on PTFC'. That's nonsense given that the main decision-makers in both companies are the same people. Unless there's some miracle around the corner, the football at Firhill is not going to keep those nice folk in the manner to which they've become accustomed. Selling land will. Im sorry I seem to be missing something -PTFC no longer own the land -this was the deal done with Propco -nothing has changed since the deal was done ,since we no longer own the land the only impact is how much its sold for as we own 50% of the shares in Propco so we are linked to maximising the value the same as the other Shareholders -there are only Three Directors with an interest in Propco ,at the time of the deal there were Four Directors with an interest in Propco -so can you tell me why you are more cocerned now than you were then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The directors of the club have a duty to exercise their right to vote to the benefit of the company that they are directors of. If they do not do so, they can be held to account by the shareholders. I'm not exactly sure who own the shares in thistle are precisely, but I think it's predominantly the same people as are directors. However, this is where the jags trust should come in, if it were an effective fans representative. The same directors who are also voting in propco? Is it likely that they will vote one way with their propco vote & another with their Thistle one? I doubt it. I'm in no way against the current directors or against what they are currently doing, just that there is a clear conflict of interests (not that it matters in terms of what direction propco will go, it will go in the direction the directors want it to, regardless of what the Thistle vote is). I just think the vote in that process should be handed over to a small group of supporters to judge the information available & vote independently in the way they feel is best for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The same directors who are also voting in propco? Is it likely that they will vote one way with their propco vote & another with their Thistle one? I doubt it. Yes. That has already been established. My point was that they have a legal directors' duty to manage (and therefore vote) in the company's best interest, which can be enforced by any of the shareholders if they do not do so. Any shareholders not involved in protocol can raise such an action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Unless people are referring to the River Clyde I have no interest in this thread. Clyde FC are EVEN worse than Radio Clyde. My God. The River Clyde, however is going through a marvelous re-generation at the moment. Support the River Clyde, not Clyde FC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 "Jupiter" is on the video - good enough for me! Clyde are one up at half time at Elgin - just to go off topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Im sorry I seem to be missing something -PTFC no longer own the land -this was the deal done with Propco -nothing has changed since the deal was done ,since we no longer own the land the only impact is how much its sold for as we own 50% of the shares in Propco so we are linked to maximising the value the same as the other Shareholders -there are only Three Directors with an interest in Propco ,at the time of the deal there were Four Directors with an interest in Propco -so can you tell me why you are more cocerned now than you were then ? You are missing something. It's called the elephant in the room. Other folk contributing to this thread seem to have noticed it. Still, no need to apologise, dear boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Back on topic there's light at the end of the Clyde tunnel http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/16839851 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicofan Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Back on topic there's light at the end of the Clyde tunnel http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/16839851 Nice pic of Duffy there....looks like a weather beaten faced auld jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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