Where Do We Go From Here?

[Chicofan]

People were bleating on about finishing top 4 and how that would be a good season. Even if we do it is a false position, we are 30 points from the top and only 10 from the bottom.

 

We will lose Paul Cairnery in the summer.

 

We have, in my opinion, some of the best players in the division in Doolan, Erskine and Sinclair, unfortunately the other is for the off. I think with a more experienced manager we have a chance at winning the league next season. A manager who knows how to change things, a manager who can organise them properly and a manager who can instil the confidence to win the games we should be winning (like yesterday and countless others).

 

I think this Welsh character is not bad. We need someone who can play on the right, a proper pacey winger, can O'Donnell or Elliot do this or do we need someone else? With Doolan and McGuigan up front in a traditional big man wee man combo (despite Doolan not being that wee and very strong on the ball) and Sinclair/Erskine on the left and O'Donnell (or Paton)/Right Winger (or O'Donnell) on the right we can really hurt teams.

 

With those 6 players attacking we will be okay with Rowson and Welsh in the middle. Bannigan has blossomed since he has had a wee run in the team and he would offer us something in there as well. But if we had Rowson (or Bannigan) and Cairney in there we would be brilliant. PC demands the attention of the opposition meaning there will be space out wide which is where we should be dangerous. Without committing financial suicide we need to keep PC, the board need to find the money for this somehow, treble his wages, make him the focus of our team, sign him up for 2 years with a buy out clause in the event we don't go up next season and he really wants to go.

 

At the back, I know it's controversial but Archie out. Legend, etc. but his legs are gone. We need a new CB to partner Kinningburger. Give Big Willie the armband, make him the leader of that back line, I think he is good enough to do this.

 

For me the weak link in all of this is McNamara. So we need a new manager, a new CB and someone to play on the right wing. A new striker would be good but they are rare and its a bit of a lottery finding one with no money. We have most of the weapons, we just need a better commander.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

MacNamara will still be at the helm next season no doubt about that but in my very very honest opinion if he doesn't get us up this year he should go.....seriously i can not bare another season of this turgid pish with meaningless games for a half a season.

I have not been now since Morton away in early December and I have to admit I haven't missed it.

I hope this new initiative can help generate some very much needed atmosphere and hopefully bring back some enjoyment about going to the games again....Only thing is it will this flat on its @rse if we are playing for nothing again.

I as always wish the manager all the best for the new season when it comes and hope he can do it....Will he???

Highly unlikely unfortunately and again we will be sitting in the same shi tty position next year

[Woodstock Jag]

Are you seriously suggesting that if Jackie doesn't get us promoted next season he should be sacked?

 

I sometimes wonder what planet people are living on. We lost our sponsor mid-season and had to plug it with an emergency step-in job on most likely far inferior terms. We're losing the Warriors which will cost us £100k plus whatever the cost of looking after the pitch is. Our crowds are down on last season. Jackie is probably going to be given yet another budget cut deeper than those under Margaret Thatcher.

 

If we're even challenging for the title next season it will be because other clubs are making similar cuts to us. And that won't be Jackie's fault.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

Are you seriously suggesting that if Jackie doesn't get us promoted next season he should be sacked?

 

I sometimes wonder what planet people are living on. We lost our sponsor mid-season and had to plug it with an emergency step-in job on most likely far inferior terms. We're losing the Warriors which will cost us £100k plus whatever the cost of looking after the pitch is. Our crowds are down on last season. Jackie is probably going to be given yet another budget cut deeper than those under Margaret Thatcher.

 

If we're even challenging for the title next season it will be because other clubs are making similar cuts to us. And that won't be Jackie's fault.

 

Why shouldn't we be challenging? Jackie has banged on all season about finishing top 4/top3 (another target likely to be missed). He has talked about challenging next season, don't know if he is making a rod for his own back there, but if that is what he is saying publicly and communicating to the BoD then...

 

Stop talking about budget cuts, its real life, every single person on this forum will have faced some form or price hike in the last 3 years. Its a fact of life, and we all get on with it, the football club should be no different.

 

I sometimes wonder what planet other fans are living on. Are you seriously happy with another season of mid table mediocrity, another season of the same old excuses, another season of a soulless Firhill, another season of adject cup failure? Ever since the demise of the Ian McCall '5 year plan', the club have wandered aimlessly, I don't even thing Jackie/the fans know what we really want each season and what we are aiming for.

 

Aims:

 

Youth development? Bannigan and Scully coming through which is great. Others are turgid - Burns et al.

 

Progress? Lacking, its all very 'same-y'

 

Development? We are developing some bad habits

 

There is nobody at Firhill, coming out at the start of the season and presenting a coherent argument about what our intentions and aims are for the season. The only rambled tale is McNamara chatting about challenging next season. Lets have a top 3 finish next season and a decent challenge at 1st place then, anything else isn't progress, isn't development, and is a watertight case for a change of manager.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

I will give it a go:

 

Conrad Balatoni - rotten

Darren Cole - unproven

Craig Dargo - rotten

Christie Elliott - rotten

Iain Flannigan - rotten

Kyle Hutton - good player

Johnny Lindsay - unproven

Mark McGuigan - unproven

Kal Naismith - unproven

Stephen O'Donnell - semi decent player

Scott Robertson - joe average

Aaron Sinclair - good player

Tommy Stewart - worst

Sean Welsh - semi decent player

 

Flannigan and Stewart were already here and Jackie offered them new deals, I think that is it. (2 TERRIBLE SHOUTS)

 

Signing record looks pretty poor to me.

[kni]

The 13 players signed up for next season are

 

Fox

O'Donnell

Kinniburgh

Lindsay

Sinclair

Campbell

Rowson

Bannigan

Erskine

Elliot

Doolan

 

Scully

Fraser

 

The 11 players who are out of contract at the end of this season are

 

Paton

Balatoni

Archibald

Robertson

Cairney

Stewart

Burns

McGuigan

McAleer

Stevenson

Ketterer

 

McBeth has gone already. Cole, Naismith and Welsh will return to their parent clubs.

 

McNamara's ability to add the squad will depend on the budget. It will probably be reduced due to the loss of the Warriors income.

[Chicofan]

Are you seriously suggesting that if Jackie doesn't get us promoted next season he should be sacked?

 

I sometimes wonder what planet people are living on. We lost our sponsor mid-season and had to plug it with an emergency step-in job on most likely far inferior terms. We're losing the Warriors which will cost us £100k plus whatever the cost of looking after the pitch is. Our crowds are down on last season. Jackie is probably going to be given yet another budget cut deeper than those under Margaret Thatcher.

 

If we're even challenging for the title next season it will be because other clubs are making similar cuts to us. And that won't be Jackie's fault.

 

Well how many seasons would you give him??? another 4/5 year plan??? fu ck that... the crowds will be less than 1000 if stay languishing in Div 1 doing bugger all!!!

 

Why people seem to be happy with mediocrisy is beyond me....and as someone has already pointed out and however much people like mcnamarra as a person...this season has been utter sh ite!!

Just waiting for the top 4 finish target patter to start

Edited April 19, 2012 by Chicofan

[Jordanhill Jag]

Are you seriously suggesting that if Jackie doesn't get us promoted next season he should be sacked?

 

I sometimes wonder what planet people are living on. We lost our sponsor mid-season and had to plug it with an emergency step-in job on most likely far inferior terms. We're losing the Warriors which will cost us £100k plus whatever the cost of looking after the pitch is. Our crowds are down on last season. Jackie is probably going to be given yet another budget cut deeper than those under Margaret Thatcher.

 

If we're even challenging for the title next season it will be because other clubs are making similar cuts to us. And that won't be Jackie's fault.

 

Technically Mrs Thatcher didnt make cuts she reduced the level of Public Borrowing (PSBR) as we were in hawk to the IMF at the time -so we adjusted our outgoings nearer to our income ,thats balancing a budget not cutting -I would have thought an Orange Booker like yourself would grasp the subtle difference

[lennythistle]

Well how many seasons would you give him??? another 4/5 year plan??? fu ck that... the crowds will be less than 1000 if stay languishing in Div 1 doing bugger all!!!

 

Why people seem to be happy with mediocrisy is beyond me....and as someone has already pointed out and however much people like mcnamarra as a person...this season has been utter sh ite!!

Just waiting for the top 4 finish target patter to start

 

Chico, I don't think people are happy with mediocrity. I'd hope we all want to see the side challenge for the title.

 

Thing is and I'm not having a go, in order for us to be successful it is going to have to be a 2 way street. We, as supporters, are going to have to play our part. That is going to involve putting whatever finance we can into the club. biggest of all is clearly going to be season tickets. If we can't afford that, then getting along to as many home games as possible is then high on the list.

 

You are angry at things on the park, that much is clear. The only game you've attended since early/mid december was hospitality at Morton. A team who have a higher budget than us and spent more on players, and who currently trail us in the league benefited by you going to their hospitality. Jags in the meantime have had nothing! Now of course it is your right to do such a thing but then you want to see the jags challenge for the title and not mid table sh1te.

 

 

Next season has to see a change in approach from us all. The club and fans have to pull together and do what we all can to see the club as successful as it can be. The club don't play their part, it goes t1ts up. We don't , same will happen.

 

Sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing, and complaining how crap it is, isn't going to cut it next season.

 

I'm not having a go Chico, though I think I've opened myself up for the usual digs from the usual people. It's just the harsh reality of where we find ourselves.

[MWM]

Not been a huge fan of Jackie in his first year, but prepared to give him another go next season. The true test of him will be how he replaces the mainstays of the team brought in by McCall with his own signings.

[Ruchillnomore]

Im getting pretty fed up with this......if the fans played their part..........This season we are the 4th best supported team in the First Division on average home attendances. The 5th placed team are a clear 400 supporters behind us. On my estimation thats 800 supporters more income a month based on 2 home games which roughly equates to £13600 extra income monthly on gate receipts alone. on your average 10 month season then we generate £136,000 extra a season over the 5th placed team and obviously that sum will grow as you go down the average attendances. Teams below us in order are Raith, Morton, Hamilton, Livingstone, Queen of the South and Ayr. So the arguement that other teams have bigger budgets more often negates itself when you look at average income. Running costs may vary however I have not included the extra income that is generated to the club on matchday when you take into account 400 extra supporters at least.

 

All in all the fans are playing their part they are continuing to support the club when the standard at lot of the times is not that great. Yes sure more fans can come along and Im sure they will but lets stop blaming the fans. All clubs are toiling in the first Division but no matter what happens we are still the 04th best supported team in the Division and that without doubt generates a competitive budget in this league. Maybe the board can answer why the budget for players is so low

[Fawlty Towers]

Im getting pretty fed up with this......if the fans played their part..........This season we are the 4th best supported team in the First Division on average home attendances. The 5th placed team are a clear 400 supporters behind us. On my estimation thats 800 supporters more income a month based on 2 home games which roughly equates to £13600 extra income monthly on gate receipts alone. on your average 10 month season then we generate £136,000 extra a season over the 5th placed team and obviously that sum will grow as you go down the average attendances. Teams below us in order are Raith, Morton, Hamilton, Livingstone, Queen of the South and Ayr. So the arguement that other teams have bigger budgets more often negates itself when you look at average income. Running costs may vary however I have not included the extra income that is generated to the club on matchday when you take into account 400 extra supporters at least.

 

All in all the fans are playing their part they are continuing to support the club when the standard at lot of the times is not that great. Yes sure more fans can come along and Im sure they will but lets stop blaming the fans. All clubs are toiling in the first Division but no matter what happens we are still the 04th best supported team in the Division and that without doubt generates a competitive budget in this league. Maybe the board can answer why the budget for players is so low

 

When doing your calculations remember that there will be a few hundred fans included in our attendance that get free entry and that every extra fan over the teams below us in attendance terms is not going to be a £17 paying adult.

 

As to why we our budget for players is low I would suggest that it might be because we are still dealing with the poor management of the finances in recent years when budgets with a £200,00 blackhole were set. I think we probably still have to pay the bank a large amount every year in an attempt to get rid of our debt to them.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Fawlty Towers

[Ruchillnomore]

ok point taken but by your reckoning every club above and below us will still be on the same financial footing in respect of costs, free entry, not paying full price and those who have already paid season tickets. We are the 04th best supported team that is fact. As for the debt the present board has championed that they have managed to slowly but surely started to turn things around so at some point regardless of the debt we must look to become competitive................ if that cant happen then heaven help us

[northernsoul]

I think ruchillnomore makes some accurate points. The state the First division is in, at the moment means that clubs are constantly relying more and more on the supporters and that burden falls more upon the hardcore support who turn up week in, week out. What we've started to see is that hardcore supports for all clubs have slowly started to erode.

 

You might have had a season ticket holder two, three years but now finances dictate that they now a pay at the gate customore and make only 10-12 home games now. That's life and considering how expensive first division is, in terms of quality I think it's time the supporters were given some slack.

 

I honestly don't see how Thistle can progress until we get this bank debt paid off. The interest has been pulling us back year in, year out. We have to do all we can to get rid of this.

 

I hope the positivity so far of the home support move to the North Stand next season translates into more Jags fans turning up. I think if the One Thistle team manage to get the go ahead for a smoking area between the Main Stand and North Stand could be crucial towards this.

Edited April 19, 2012 by northernsoul

[Woodstock Jag]

Technically Mrs Thatcher didnt make cuts she reduced the level of Public Borrowing (PSBR) as we were in hawk to the IMF at the time -so we adjusted our outgoings nearer to our income ,thats balancing a budget not cutting -I would have thought an Orange Booker like yourself would grasp the subtle difference

 

You should know better Jim. I was playing to my Scottish social democratic/socialist audience

[Jagsfan58]

I think ruchillnomore makes some accurate points. The state the First division is in, at the moment means that clubs are constantly relying more and more on the supporters and that burden falls more upon the hardcore support who turn up week in, week out. What we've started to see is that hardcore supports for all clubs have slowly started to erode.

 

You might have had a season ticket holder two, three years but now finances dictate that they now a pay at the gate customore and make only 10-12 home games now. That's life and considering how expensive first division is, in terms of quality I think it's time the supporters were given some slack.

 

I honestly don't see how Thistle can progress until we get this bank debt paid off. The interest has been pulling us back year in, year out. We have to do all we can to get rid of this.

 

I hope the positivity so far of the home support move to the North Stand next season translates into more Jags fans turning up. I think if the One Thistle team manage to get the go ahead for a smoking area between the Main Stand and North Stand could be crucial towards this.

 

I think the use of the North Stand is a great idea and hopefully is a great success, however if getting fans to go the North Stand rests in the crucial need of a fag during the game it could be doomed!

[Chicofan]

 

 

Chico, I don't think people are happy with mediocrity. I'd hope we all want to see the side challenge for the title.

 

Thing is and I'm not having a go, in order for us to be successful it is going to have to be a 2 way street. We, as supporters, are going to have to play our part. That is going to involve putting whatever finance we can into the club. biggest of all is clearly going to be season tickets. If we can't afford that, then getting along to as many home games as possible is then high on the list.

 

You are angry at things on the park, that much is clear. The only game you've attended since early/mid december was hospitality at Morton. A team

who have a higher budget than us and spent more on players, and who currently trail us in the league benefited by you going to their hospitality. Jags in the meantime have had nothing! Now of course it is your right to do such a thing but then you want to see the jags challenge for the title and not mid table sh1te.

 

 

Next season has to see a change in approach from us all. The club and fans have to pull together and do what we all can to see the club as successful as it can be. The club don't play their part, it goes t1ts up. We don't , same will happen.

 

Sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing, and complaining how crap it is, isn't going to cut it next season.

 

I'm not having a go Chico, though I think I've opened myself up for the usual digs from the usual people. It's just the harsh reality of where we find ourselves.

ah lenny just regarding your sitting in the sidelines

nothing remark anyone that know,s me will know that i personally ensure that 3-4 jags minimum go to jags games each week even my absense the club still benefit from my love of the jags i dont want a medal for this just thought it was worthwhile replying and to make u aware

 

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

Lenny, can I just echo what chico said there, know him well and still looks out for results and most importantly other Jags fans.

[Lindau]

We are nothing more than a middle of the road 1st division side and the sooner people realise this the better. Loyal fans have been chased away by the actions and mismanagement of last board. I took two lapsed fans (guys that went to every game, home and away and were season ticket holders for over 20 years) to the QOTS cup game. Lets just say they wont be back in a hurry!! While people are going on and on about the £100,000 shortfall from the rugby can anyone explain as to why we havent kicked on in the last 5 years when we had a £100,000 advantage over every team in the league and had the advantage of one of the best supports as well. Firhill is just a totally depressing place on a Saturday now. Poor football, poor facilities, poor atmosphere, awful catering facilities, horrific pitch, SS like stewards and virtually no hope of challenging for a place in the SPHell from day 1 of the season and for this priviledge, you have to pay £17!!! Is it any wonder the club is on its knees and the hardcore support is probably down to less than 2000 fans now

Edited April 20, 2012 by Lindau

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Sometimes when I read this board it's like an edition of "Question Time" on BBC 1 with drama and pontification. There are a few points I'd like to point out.

 

Economic Climate - people now use this as a blanket reason or blame for many things going on in the country. The bubble of cheap debt has popped but people are still working and still bringing in money. They can spend their money on items such as i-pads, large phone contracts, cable tv, fags, booze and £100 jeans. Look at the spending habits of people around you. Look at the shops, pubs and restaurants - still busy. There is still money and people can still afford to go to games.

 

The status of the club - we have never been a big club. Never will. My realistic ambition is to hit the level of St Mirren and Motherwell. We will never have a billionaire or even a millionaire to bankroll us. We need to be run intelligently, which I think the current board does, and we need to be funded by the fans and player sales. I support the board and I also say "thanks" for being involved. It's a thankless task and every hour these successful but not hugely wealthy businessmen spend on Thistle is taking them away from their real business and potential profit.

 

Product on the park - We play good football the right way getting it on the deck. Players like Doolan, Cairney, Sinclair and Erskine are entertaining. Someone mentioned QOS Cup game. That was a shocker but every club has games like that. I watch Premiership, Champions League, SPL and there are so many rank games but people get sucked into the hype and the constant brainwashing of media coverage.

 

Firhill - it's a decent stadium. It's a safe environment. It's home. "One Thistle" are looking at changing things. They are making things happen. The guys who run "The Firhill Cup" are getting off their backsides and injecting a great deal of money into the club - I'd give them hospitality at the very least as a thankyou. The club are trying to recruit more fans. Each fan can do their bit. If everyone of us brought one more along then the crowds double. The most simple cost effective way of increasing attendance and bringing in more funds for the club.

 

I will be at the last home game of the season. I am looking forward to next season, I support Jackie, Maxi, Beattie et al and I wish the club to progress. I'm a football fan. I'm a Jag. I support the club.

[Mr Bunny]

Technically Mrs Thatcher didnt make cuts she reduced the level of Public Borrowing (PSBR) as we were in hawk to the IMF at the time -so we adjusted our outgoings nearer to our income ,thats balancing a budget not cutting -I would have thought an Orange Booker like yourself would grasp the subtle difference

 

Actually it was Jim Callaghan who started to balance the budget (on the orders of the IMF - who it turns out years later exaggerated how serious a problem we had). Thatcher's government continued to reduce public spending at a great rate when there was no need to do so much cutting. That and the mad monetarist policy they ran for a few years damaged the economy - it wasn't just old defunct industries that died, lots of new ones went to the wall too. Fortunately the lady was for turning and the oil came on line in time.

 

Cutting = reducing; not necessarily balancing - if you cut too deep too soon you can kill a business, economy, etc. Doesn't that sound familiar?

[Jordanhill Jag]

Actually it was Jim Callaghan who started to balance the budget (on the orders of the IMF - who it turns out years later exaggerated how serious a problem we had). Thatcher's government continued to reduce public spending at a great rate when there was no need to do so much cutting. That and the mad monetarist policy they ran for a few years damaged the economy - it wasn't just old defunct industries that died, lots of new ones went to the wall too. Fortunately the lady was for turning and the oil came on line in time.

 

Cutting = reducing; not necessarily balancing - if you cut too deep too soon you can kill a business, economy, etc. Doesn't that sound familiar?

 

You are correct regards the reduction of the PSBR starting circa 1976 under Callaghan - as a result of the increase in unemployment the PSBR actually increased under the Thatcher Govt HOWEVER spending increased by roughly 1% year on year for the first four years.

 

If you cannot borrow anymore -eg PTFC and the UK State you then have to balance income against outgoings -PTFC ran up large debts ,we have sold off all our disposable assetts - we have to run a balanced budget ,that IMO is not cutting its sanity.

[Alan Murray]

Only on a jags forum could a thread on our chances for next year turn into a political debate on Mrs thatcher.

[Kirkie Jag]

Sometimes when I read this board it's like an edition of "Question Time" on BBC 1 with drama and pontification. There are a few points I'd like to point out. Economic Climate - people now use this as a blanket reason or blame for many things going on in the country. The bubble of cheap debt has popped but people are still working and still bringing in money. They can spend their money on items such as i-pads, large phone contracts, cable tv, fags, booze and £100 jeans. Look at the spending habits of people around you. Look at the shops, pubs and restaurants - still busy. There is still money and people can still afford to go to games.

 

They may still have the money, but I doubt they are getting the same enjoyment at the game as they would going for a meal, or a night out. They may class eating out and having cable tv more important than going to Firhill. This season, more than once, I have put my ticket money towards a night out in the town, instead of watching some of the crap we have served up on the pitch this season. I may be in the minority, but I just don't think I'm getting value for money, and with the games I have attended this season, more often than not I have left disappointed.

[Mr Bunny]

You are correct regards the reduction of the PSBR starting circa 1976 under Callaghan - as a result of the increase in unemployment the PSBR actually increased under the Thatcher Govt HOWEVER spending increased by roughly 1% year on year for the first four years.

 

If you cannot borrow anymore -eg PTFC and the UK State you then have to balance income against outgoings - PTFC ran up large debts ,we have sold off all our disposable assetts - we have to run a balanced budget ,that IMO is not cutting its sanity.

 

PTFC has to because we are small; really big businesses don't necessarily as long as they make a profit long term. If that wasn't the case there would be no new business. Same with governements, there's always a national debt: getting the right amount for the economic circumstances is more tricky though. Anyway it's a long long time since I looked at this and am working on a fading memory - I only bothered to respond because of that silly teacher's hat (smiley) you put on.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Mr Bunny

[Lambies Lost Doo]

They may still have the money, but I doubt they are getting the same enjoyment at the game as they would going for a meal, or a night out. They may class eating out and having cable tv more important than going to Firhill. This season, more than once, I have put my ticket money towards a night out in the town, instead of watching some of the crap we have served up on the pitch this season. I may be in the minority, but I just don't think I'm getting value for money, and with the games I have attended this season, more often than not I have left disappointed.

That's the battle football all over has these days. More disposable income and more choice means it's not just football to entertain the masses. Most of the games I have went to I enjoyed even drawing 0-0 v Dundee and losing 0-1 v Ross County. Team tried to play football and were unlucky not to lose both games.