Do We Hate Rangers More Than We Love Thistle?

[Alan Hansen]

Clearly we're not going to agree even if I'll probably end up going to Firhill despite this forthcoming stitch up.

 

Let's take a step back, CK, and tell us how you'd punt the values of this forthcoming season to fans less committed? Btw I'm not taking a cheap shot at what you say coming across as another I'm a better fan than you post but I think it's fair to say a huge chunk of Jags supporters don't go to Firhill just out of habit. They are still every bit Jags fans no better or worse than you or me. So, what's the selling points of a season playing in a division designed to see that one certain club ends up being promoted?

 

 

Lets hope Friday sticks them in Division 3 and we can get back to talking about the game and how we are going to do this coming season but whatever the outcome dont take it out on our club we have done no wrong YET (fingers crossed)

[Dark Passenger]

 

 

 

Lets hope Friday sticks them in Division 3 and we can get back to talking about the game and how we are going to do this coming season but whatever the outcome dont take it out on our club we have done no wrong YET (fingers crossed)

 

Regardless of what happens on Friday, the club, or rather the chairman, has already beat the drum for Newco in Division One. He's part of the problem here, so has already done something wrong in essence.

[Mr Bunny]

No, but that's not what's happening here in the slightest. League reconstruction / admitting a new team is not the same as fixing a score.

 

 

I have to say you're either being disingenuous or you've not been paying attention (or you've been getting all your info from the daily retard). This isn't about league reconstruction. If they honestly want to do that then they should do that anyway and if they need to be forced then they have a better hand for that with Newco in Div3.

 

And it's not about admitting a new team. We're all happy to admit Newco - to div 3 which is where all new clubs come in - and I would add provided they can prove they can fulfill a season of fixtures and their owners are 'fit and proper persons' to run a club. Something they might actually find difficult and something which the SFA is sitting on though they should have been able to make a statement on this by now.

 

Anything else apart from that is about breaking rules, allowing people to lie, cheat and rob the tax payer and other clubs and businesses and get away with it.

 

There's also the consideration that Green has an agenda that does not include the welfare of either RangersNewco or the League. Allowing them in might blow up in everyone's faces mid-season.

 

Everything I've said is based on stuff that's easily available on the web and includes stuff from not only knowledgeable punters but the one or two honest and able journos. Our boards should be aware of it - some are hence the statement from Raith.

 

So what's your feeling if Thistle were to go along with an out and out fix that might actually long term - or even medium term be damaging to us and our league?

 

Personally I hope and (half) believe our board won't vote for this. It may be forced on us despite this but I would still support the Jags provided they don't go along with all this nonsense.

[jagfox]

Something just struck me today, cockwomble and Ronnie Regan are chief executives of their respective cartels, Longmuir as well therefore I would think they get some kind of performance related bonus or pay structure. At least this goes somewhere to understanding their stance.

 

Not that I agree with their shennanigans.

 

On the cynical front if the Spl and sfl struggle they will have an audit of accounts, just saying like..........

 

Anyone know what these guys get paid for their sterlinh service to the scottish game?

 

 

Sorry wrong thread, its all becoming a bit of a cluster****....

[1971]

_{I got told the other day that Billy Allan, in his pre-board days, used to be a Rangers fan. He's perfectly entitled to have supported another team prior to becoming involved with us, but it does make me wonder if it will affect the way we decide to vote. If I've been given dud information then I'm happy to be corrected, of course.}

Edited July 9, 2012 by 1971

[Fellow Traveller]

I really don't think anyone's talking about boycotts because boycotts are more in the nature of targeted actions to achieve a specific result. I've had a season ticket for maybe 34 or 35 years out of the last 38. In recent seasons, for a combination of family and business reasons, I've hardly been an active fan at all and it's taken this mess to make me admit to myself how much I was missing it. I would absolutely expect to take up a season ticket again in due course and become one of the old dodderers JJ says make up the decaying bulk of our support.

 

But if there really isn't going to be even the pretence of a game that allows for the unpredictability that makes sport so exciting (and which has been Thistle's stock in trade for generations) then there's not going to be anything to come back to. So it's not going to be a boycott, just a parting of the ways. Life is full of other possibilities and they don't all have the stench of corruption about them.

[Allan Heron]

That's pretty much it really. To talk about boycott's is to trivialise what is going to be happening for a large number of otherwise long term supporters of their club AND Scottish football.

 

I remain of a mind to turn my back on 44 years of attendance if this travesty happens. There's a strong emotional tug to tempt me to take a softer line, shrug the shoulders and let what happen's happen. But there's an even stronger sense of logic that tells me that there's really no point in continuing to go at all in these circumstances.

 

It's not even down to the situation of whether Thistle vote yes or no, I've got myself to the point that I think Thistle will vote no only once they are happy there are enough yes votes in the bag for the proposal to be carried. Yes, that is cynical but I also think it's a most likely outcome.

 

Anyway, there's an ELP reissue campaign coming up. Possibly more deserving of my pennies than PTFC would be playing in a corrupted league.

[Trotter]

As above for me also.

 

ST holder for 25 of last 28 years without getting the 'value' from it.

 

Will I be back if Newco go into SFL1?

 

Truth is, I will probably turn up from time to time and pay money through the gate for certain games, when i'm about, to catch up with a few folk but aside from that my days of 'donating' money to PTFC would be over for the time being (can't say ever but as previous poster said, 'life is full of other possibilities').

 

Even if the club say 'no' to this, they haven't exactly been vociferous in doing so when you compare it to others. (& I realise they haven't said yes unlike others).

 

Nobody can say for certain what happens if a Newco goes into SFL1 what happens IF they were not to be promoted automatically, which let's be realistic is a possibility if not unlikely one.

 

Friday's vote is a crossroads for Scottish Football. If it goes the right way, & the integrity of the game is at least upheld, if not the actual rulebook, by a Newco RFC being admitted into SFL3, then they game up here may flourish with supporters looking at the sacrifices their owners/custodians have made and backing them by coming back through the gate etc.

 

If it goes against, then the game's a bogey. We've saved one club, which to be honest would always survive in one form or other, and killed many more. Doncaster/Reagan's figures don't stand up to scrutiny & as someone pointed out today, the club who could vote 'yes' due to loss of finances would be Albion Rovers (see @CP_acadvertiser on Twitter).

 

The SPL have said 'no', thrown the poison in the direction of the SFL chairman. Why should the vast majority of SFL chairmen not say same thing? Please tell me.

 

 

Or failing that, can someone truthfully tell me apart from an emotional attachment why I should change my mind?

Edited July 9, 2012 by Trotter

[Lindau]

That's pretty much it really. To talk about boycott's is to trivialise what is going to be happening for a large number of otherwise long term supporters of their club AND Scottish football.

 

I remain of a mind to turn my back on 44 years of attendance if this travesty happens. There's a strong emotional tug to tempt me to take a softer line, shrug the shoulders and let what happen's happen. But there's an even stronger sense of logic that tells me that there's really no point in continuing to go at all in these circumstances.

 

It's not even down to the situation of whether Thistle vote yes or no, I've got myself to the point that I think Thistle will vote no only once they are happy there are enough yes votes in the bag for the proposal to be carried. Yes, that is cynical but I also think it's a most likely outcome.

 

 

 

Couldnt have put it better myself Allan. The tragedy of this whole senario, as I have said so many times, is that if NEWCO get into Div 1, a lot of the diddy clubs are either gonna go part time or go to the wall as fans desert in droves, while the abomination grows back to its normal ugly self and believe me these gits will have a bigger chip on their shoulder than ever before...and thats saying something!! Basically something that has nothing to do with the Div 1/3 diddy teams is gonna end up killing quite a few of them and I include Thistle on the gravely ill list

[Mr Scruff]

Or failing that, can someone truthfully tell me apart from an emotional attachment why I should change my mind?

It's really up to you who/ what you support, and one of the main reasons is definitely the emotional attachment.

 

I wasn't born a Thistle fan. I became one after attending several games and then buying a season ticket. At some indefinable point 'you' become part of 'we'. And that's emotional attachment. It means I'll be going along to watch Thistle this season

 

Logically, if you want to watch 'great football' it's probably cheaper to consume EPL, La Liga, Serie A etc. A cold Saturday afternoon in February watching a 0-0 draw against Dundee is not going to compete with that. So I can't give you a logical reason.

 

But this is a traditional home grown industry, and I like to support them where I can. We accept in so many areas of life that we can get cheaper & better looking outside Scotland. Surrendering that makes it hard to get back - we've seen this in many other industries. And yes, this is a message I'd like the SFL to consider on Friday too. Think long term. There is an alternative to the plaster which will simply seal in the toxicity.

 

Despite the inferior product and the lack of a compelling cost/ benefit case in supporting my team, there is little to compare with it. I have a group of friends that's grown around support for the club. I've got a couple of, hopefully new converts who are going to more games than they're missing. They haven't yet got to talking about 'we' but it's close - a decent season would make that happen. We're hoping to see that once we get this damaging close season out of the way.

 

the feeling of pulling a surprising win out of the bag, or putting together a run which means we're challenging at the right end of the table is incomparable. As Thistle fans we're not glory hunters by definition. We're fans of a club that will lose as many as we win, but we do it together. And we do have good times.

 

No-one other than you can answer your question. Once you take the emotional attachment away there's little else. And if there's one message that our chairman, and the rest of the game's custodians should have ringing in their ears on Friday, it's that one.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mr Scruff

[jagfox]

This would be my 30th anniversary of attending games. I've been going regularly for the last 25 seasons and managed every home game plus a few away games last season, so not a super fan but put 500 quid into the club through tickets, programmes and persuading friends to come along. The sad reality is that if we are put in the position not to attend, in all likelihood we won't have a club to support in its current form in a couple of seasons. I hope that the board come out with an unequivocal no so we can get back to supporting the team as much as we can.

It seems simple to me, vote no to the odious proposal no one is going to stay away and I get the impression folk will try to increase their support being it getting a season book for the first time in a while, increasing payments to the cc or 800 club and trying to get lapsed fans to attend.

Vote yes and we could loose anywhere between 50 and 500 regular supporters along with their personal investments be that buying a programme, hospitality or bringing friends and family.

The situation stinks but we need to stand together.

I can't see the business logic in voting yes for a quick fix.

Over to the board......

Edited July 9, 2012 by jagfox

[lady-isobel-barnett]

It's not even down to the situation of whether Thistle vote yes or no, I've got myself to the point that I think Thistle will vote no only once they are happy there are enough yes votes in the bag for the proposal to be carried.

What vote?

As I understand it Thistle have already voted no, albeit in only a straw poll taken at the end of last week's meeting. Where it gets muddier is if they vote yes to newco in the SFL, which I assume is the majority opinion amongst SFL chairmen, then as things stand it looks like newco would be invited into Div 1. by the SFL committee. I'll repeat I think there's a strong possibility PTFC have had input into a prospective SPL2. even if it's only a "count us in, boys". That's a far cry from championing a stick newco in the 1st Div campaign. I still like to think that the various clumsy statements from Firhill were due to Beattie & Co trying to clamber out a hole rather than drag us in.

Like other posts I don't think the word boycott is helpful re going to Firhill or not. The varying degrees of lack of interest in watching a rigged competition will be just as harmful. Where the word boycott may be more appropriate would be in attending games at Dumbarton irrespective of Friday's outcome.

[Allan Heron]

What vote?

As I understand it Thistle have already voted no, albeit in only a straw poll taken at the end of last week's meeting. Where it gets muddier is if they vote yes to newco in the SFL, which I assume is the majority opinion amongst SFL chairmen, then as things stand it looks like newco would be invited into Div 1. by the SFL committee. I'll repeat I think there's a strong possibility PTFC have had input into a prospective SPL2. even if it's only a "count us in, boys". That's a far cry from championing a stick newco in the 1st Div campaign. I still like to think that the various clumsy statements from Firhill were due to Beattie & Co trying to clamber out a hole rather than drag us in.

Like other posts I don't think the word boycott is helpful re going to Firhill or not. The varying degrees of lack of interest in watching a rigged competition will be just as harmful. Where the word boycott may be more appropriate would be in attending games at Dumbarton irrespective of Friday's outcome.

 

A yes to the shameful motion that is being put to SFL clubs on Friday which manages to say yes to both SFL1 and SFL3 but to be dependant on discussions on which Longmuir's judgement is to be trusted.

 

If they can't delete the section on SFL1 before voting then it should be thrown out in its' entirety presumably leaving the whole issue up in the air.

 

But even the club's announcement about the "no" vote was couched in language which suggest that what is needed is an improved offer rather than any necessity to do the right thing.

 

And I also think Beattie is and has been up to his neck in SPL2 discussions, and has been too transparent about his enthusiasm for this in his recent interviews. Subsequent Thistle statements can be categorised as damage control.

 

Bottom line is and has always been that Newco should go into SFL3, and discussions about any reform can follow.

 

I'd also suggest that the SFL should be making clear their willingness to sue the asses of the SPL about the threatened withholding of the £2m per annum. Let the SFA decide which side of the fence they want to sit between one footballing organisation seeking to require another to meet its' contractual obligations. If worse comes to worse, they could go into administration. We can recommend an insolvency pracitioner they could consult!

[gee]

NO

 

I too want to see Jackie take us where we want to go (promotion) but HOW in the name of f**k will allowing new Rangers into the 1st allow that to happen? say we do finish first do you REALY think we will be allowed up ahead of them?

[Lindau]

NO

 

I too want to see Jackie take us where we want to go (promotion) but HOW in the name of f**k will allowing new Rangers into the 1st allow that to happen? say we do finish first do you REALY think we will be allowed up ahead of them?

 

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/110020-sfl-clubs-seeking-parity-with-spl-counterparts-under-merged-league-setup/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Mr Bunny]

http://sport.stv.tv/..._medium=twitter

 

Hah! And how many of these promises (if they get them) will be kept? There is no time for proper discussions where you could make sure everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb to prevent any get outs for the SPL.

 

If they honestly want this vote Newco into Div 3 and then negotiate - you're far more likely to get a fair and secure deal that way than just rushing into something thrown together in a few days. (Or even worse, a mere promise of a deal).

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mr Bunny

[Allan Heron]

I noticed that the motion is actually going to be taken as three seperate motions. So it's yes to SF3, no to SFL1 with league reconstruction and yes for the technical motion to deal with Dundee/Dunfermline as appropriate (although it's also disgraceful that the SPL have yet to make a determination on this - should have happened alongside the decision to exclude Sevco from SPL).

 

And also firm opposition to SFL1 teams accepting invitations to join SPL2.

 

(And also to add that if the club don't consider the situation worthy of an open meeting with fans is complete and utterly contemptible. And which only reinforces the view that the club is up to their necks in it but can't go public with anything that compromises that position - which none of the statements to date have done).

 

Johnstone Burgh, here we come.........

Edited July 9, 2012 by Allan Heron

[Junior]

 

Bottom line is and has always been that Newco should go into SFL3, and discussions about any reform can follow.

 

 

This is the point everyone is clearly making.

 

Personally I dont have much issue with ZombieRangers being voted into SFL at division 3 level which is where any new club should go.

 

If there is a desire to carry out proper league reconstruction (preference is 16/16/10 then whatever) then we do that so everything is in place for season 13/14

[Milo]

Do I hate Rangers more than I love Thistle.......no!

In fact, I wish I'd never heard of Rangers....that they never existed.

Because of Rangers my club may end up playing in an openly corrupt league, rigged in a way to make it easy for Rangers to get promoted.

I won't support a corrupt set-up. It's not what I bought my season ticket for. I will ask for my money back and I will, sadly, find something else to do with my time and money.

[gianlucatoni]

I find it sad that the cllub haven't bothered their ar*es contacting the fans and getting feedback - either through a face to face meeting or via email - there has been a singular lack of effort to engage in a way other clubs have done.

 

They will also, by now, have digested and discussed as a priority (in the boardroom) the disgusting scenarios painted by the discredited SPL/SFA last week. Their failure to put their thoughts to an update on the official site could be interpreted as a poor attempt to bury bad news. The optimist in me says there'll be an update on the position tomorrow but the cynical side (95%) of me says otherwise.

[patrick bateman]

Apparently so

Seems to me that comments everywhere are almost exclusively negative about hoping clubs go bust etc Do we really care that much about Rangers/Sevco or whatever the hell they are called?I am a Thistle supporter and I am looking forward to see if Jackie can take us where we want to go next season lets get behind the players and look forward to a promotion push.