SussexJag Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Wasn't worried when paton left - believed that he would be easy to replace. This has been proved wrong - a tough guy with leadership ability on and off the park would in my view be v helpful - as we seem to be getting out-muscled / overrun at times, don't seem to be organised at set pieces, and the heads go down a bit when we go behind, or when pressure doesn't lead to goals. So whatever the daftness around his departure (led mainly by him) it looks like he was a big loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veejag Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Paton or Osbourne? Daft question. We miss Erskine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewcal Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 It's Osbourne over Paton every day of the week for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 It's Osbourne over Paton every day of the week for me. It doesn't have to be either/or. Paton's leadership is what is being touted here rather than playing skills and I can see where the OP is comming from. I'm not sure that Welsh is as strong when we suffer a setback. I'm also not convinced that Erskine is the answer either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 It doesn't have to be either/or. Paton's leadership is what is being touted here rather than playing skills and I can see where the OP is comming from. I'm not sure that Welsh is as strong when we suffer a setback. I'm also not convinced that Erskine is the answer either. Ideal scenario would be Ozzy and Paton together. Patons range of passing over the top to the over lapping full backs really helped us last season. He was able to change wings of attack very quickly. This season we have been quite laboured switching from one wing to the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Paton didn't feature very much towards the end of last season, and he wasn't missed. The one who is being missed is Erskine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 (edited) I don't recall ever hearing or reading that Paton was a great guy in the dressing room or that he really influenced the team. He was quite vocal during matches though and captained the team. Also, I agree his distribution and drive was good to have. Osbourne is a better player than Paton and more experienced in the Premiership/SPL. Fraser is a better passer than Paton, some his balls and range of passes/crosses were superb. Osbourne and Fraser combined should be tried. Whether Fraser plays for us again, we will have to wait and see. Hopefully Archie can broker a deal to extend his loan or sign him. Worth a shot imo. Edited to add... agree with Jaggernaut ^ Edited December 3, 2013 by mhs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Paton didn't feature very much towards the end of last season, and he wasn't missed. The one who is being missed is Erskine. I don't recall ever hearing or reading that Paton was a great guy in the dressing room or that he really influenced the team. He was quite vocal during matches though and captained the team. Also, I agree his distribution and drive was good to have. Osbourne is a better player than Paton and more experienced in the Premiership/SPL. Fraser is a better passer than Paton, some his balls and range of passes/crosses were superb. Osbourne and Fraser combined should be tried. Whether Fraser plays for us again, we will have to wait and see. Hopefully Archie can broker a deal to extend his loan or sign him. Worth a shot imo. Edited to add... agree with Jaggernaut ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of the major disappointments is that we never got to see last year's side with Erskine & Paton against top flight sides. Erskine provided those special touches but I recently looked through the highlights for some of our games early last season and realised how influential Paton had been, both in winning challenges but also in hitting raking diagonal passes to set up attacks. We didn't play as fluently towards the end of the season - Ramsdens Final for example - when he wasn't in the side. Osborne has done a tremendous job as a ball-winner but he contributes very little going forward. Is this part of the reason our midfield has not been as effective in supporting the lone striker this season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 One of the major disappointments is that we never got to see last year's side with Erskine & Paton against top flight sides. Erskine provided those special touches but I recently looked through the highlights for some of our games early last season and realised how influential Paton had been, both in winning challenges but also in hitting raking diagonal passes to set up attacks. We didn't play as fluently towards the end of the season - Ramsdens Final for example - when he wasn't in the side. Osborne has done a tremendous job as a ball-winner but he contributes very little going forward. Is this part of the reason our midfield has not been as effective in supporting the lone striker this season? We've also moved Welsh into a more defensive roll, and no disrespect to the lad, but i don't recall a game yet, where i've thought "oh welsh was a stand out today, he grabbed that game by the scruff of the neck." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 We've also moved Welsh into a more defensive roll, and no disrespect to the lad, but i don't recall a game yet, where i've thought "oh welsh was a stand out today, he grabbed that game by the scruff of the neck." First few games of the season. Especially United, best player on the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 I really don't think Erskine would be contributing much to our team at this point in time. He would never be given enough time on the ball in this league, with the team under constant pressure from the opposition. From the stats I wouldn't know how he's doing up at United; but they're an all round stronger team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Osborne has done a tremendous job as a ball-winner but he contributes very little going forward. Is this part of the reason our midfield has not been as effective in supporting the lone striker this season? Great respect for Paton but when he took over the holding role from Shug Murray he rarely ventured any further up the park than Osbourne has done this season. The point about central midfielders not getting forward to support Doolan is most valid but that certainly shouldn't be the responsibility of Osbourne. Indeed it wouldn't be Paul Paton's responsibility either had he stayed on. That duty falls on whoever the other two central mids are (from Craigen, Welsh and Bannigan usually} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Great respect for Paton but when he took over the holding role from Shug Murray he rarely ventured any further up the park than Osbourne has done this season. The point about central midfielders not getting forward to support Doolan is most valid but that certainly shouldn't be the responsibility of Osbourne. Indeed it wouldn't be Paul Paton's responsibility either had he stayed on. That duty falls on whoever the other two central mids are (from Craigen, Welsh and Bannigan usually} It clearly wasn't/isn't the role of either Paton or Osborne to feed off Doolan but the point I was making was that Paton regularly hit quick, penetrating passes for our full-backs to run on to - that was the team's trademark last season. Osborne wins the ball and gives a short pass - that doesn't stretch the opposition and puts the onus on the likes of Welsh, Bannigan and Craigen to create an opening rather than get upfield to support the striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 3, 2013 Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 First few games of the season. Especially United, best player on the park. Hearts game too. Until he went off injured, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SussexJag Posted December 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2013 Guess my other thoughts here are 1. Did Paton lead in a way we now miss. 2. Would him an Osborne be ideal. So is maybe Welsh and / or Craigan not really good enough attacking wise (in a league full of Paton / Osborne equivalents) to offset their lack of defensive quality. Really depressing - am saying we need more aggression / bite etc. and only some are saying we'd do better with Erskine. Football = the new rugby. Lots of big / strong / fast people who have no ability. So there you have it, the perfect circular argument with no coherence from me. Sorry guys! Hope we f-ck Hibs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 The last thing we need is another average midfielder. Paul Paton was, and is, an average midfielder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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