billko Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Any director of football would need to have the same thoughts on how Thistle play and someone the manager trusts. Does he need this help or does the club really need to find a wage for this person is up for debate but although it's all tight at the bottom ,10th is a success. Until he can't deliver this lay off the guy and let him get on with it without the pressure of someone looking over him. The football up here needs his positive approach that he has and wish more teams opened up to play more football like this. He is a young manager who is not doing too badly just now and deserves more time and loyalty to carry on with the job in hand. If he thinks he needs help i'm sure he would ask but until then let him get on with it. You could end up with a director of football who has outdated ideas that doesn't help things at all and actually makes things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Most Directors of Football tend to be focused on identifying potential new recruits and negotiating deals. At some clubs, they also oversee the academy so that they can identify players who can step up to the senior squads or perhaps go out on loan. The main benefit is that they relieve the workload of the manager/head coach who can focus on training and tactics. In some cases, they can also advise a young and inexperienced manager. The problem with Directors of Football is that they can have control of recruitment and bring in players that the head coach does not want. That was the case with Andre Villas-Boas at Tottenham who left the club's record signing Lamela on the bench and picked Townsend and Lennon ahead of him. Another problem is that Directors of Football may sign promising young players who fail to make the grade. Chelsea have around 20 players who cost around £80 million (perhaps more) in fees etc out on loan. The alternative is the set-up that Sir Alex Ferguson had at Old Trafford. He was in control of everything but delegated recruitment to his brother (head scout) and first-team training to Mike Phelan and the coaching team. Rene Meulensteen was the key coach and had been promoted steadily over the years from academy upwards. David Gill negotiated the transfer deals and players' contracts. All of Fergie's team, including his brother, were forced out by Moyes against Sir's advice. Gill has left too so Moyes has been thrown in the proverbial deep end. Thistle have the Ferguson set-up which puts all the responsibility and pressure on Archie and Shaggy. It appears that they are doing the scouting too! That's a very heavy workload and they could benefit from having an experienced ex-manager to help them. If Thistle were to bring in a Director of Football, it should be should be someone that the management team totally respects and trusts to avoid the above problems. Edited January 16, 2014 by kni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Most Directors of Football tend to be focused on identifying potential new recruits and negotiating deals. At some clubs, they also oversee the academy so that they can identify players who can step up to the senior squads or perhaps go out on loan. The main benefit is that they relieve the workload of the manager/head coach who can focus on training and tactics. In some cases, they can also advise a young and inexperienced manager. The problem with Directors of Football is that they can have control of recruitment and bring in players that the head coach does not want. That was the case with Andre Villas-Boas at Tottenham who left the club's record signing Lamela on the bench and picked Townsend and Lennon ahead of him. Another problem is that Directors of Football may sign promising young players who fail to make the grade. Chelsea have around 20 players who cost around £80 million (perhaps more) in fees etc out on loan. The alternative is the set-up that Sir Alex Ferguson had at Old Trafford. He was in control of everything but delegated recruitment to his brother (head scout) and first-team training to Mike Phelan and the coaching team. Rene Meulensteen was the key coach and had been promoted steadily over the years from academy upwards. David Gill negotiated the transfer deals and players' contracts. All of Fergie's team, including his brother, were forced out by Moyes against Sir's advice. Gill has left too so Moyes has been thrown in the proverbial deep end. Thistle have the Ferguson set-up which puts all the responsibility and pressure on Archie and Shaggy. It appears that they are doing the scouting too! That's a very heavy workload and they could benefit from having an experienced ex-manager to help them. If Thistle were to bring in a Director of Football, it should be should be someone that the management team totally respects and trusts to avoid the above problems. I was under the impression that Ian Maxwell takes care of some of the aspects that a Director of football would do such as liaising with players and agents about length of contracts etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I was under the impression that Ian Maxwell takes care of some of the aspects that a Director of football would do such as liaising with players and agents about length of contracts etc Perhaps he needs someone to help share his work load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) I was under the impression that Ian Maxwell takes care of some of the aspects that a Director of football would do such as liaising with players and agents about length of contracts etc Maxwell's role is closer to Gill's at Man United, i.e. Chief Executive or Managing Director. He is not involved in scouting or the academy. A full-time Gerry Britton (Academy Director) with additional responsibility for scouting and recruitment would be a better comparison. Edited January 16, 2014 by kni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 All this multi-tasking. It's time Robert Reid got his track suit on, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 All this multi-tasking. It's time Robert Reid got his track suit on, As an oldie he would be used to the players running up and down the terracing! We are fecked then. Sand dunes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrybritton9 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Archie must stay! I remember in the late 80s a certain club had a manager who the press called "sad", "incapable" and they called for him to be sacked. Fans erected banners saying that, after three years, it was still "crap". The club was Manchester United and their manager was a young Alex ferguson. Even if we lose every game for the rest of the next 18 months, Archie deserves a chance and he has more than earned it. "You have to learn to put up with the quiet times because change takes more than a year" sir Alex ferguson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 The last few games have shown tactical naivety that is very alarming. Archie's position may not be so secure if we don't start winning at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Serious questions about the manager after the last two games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Today is the first time I've began to seriously question the manager's capability. Edited January 18, 2014 by avie-man 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I see the usual suspects are on the scene. Official mourners. Only happy when it goes pete tong. Dissapointed that they have been so slow tonight. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Serious questions about the manager after the last two games Didnt take you long to start posting again!!! Time to discuss the manager is at the end of the season. Get behind the team and manager for Gods sake. The guy is learning his trade in the top division,, so lets judge him at the end of the season. Yes he has made mistakes but its a learning curve for the guy. What I just cant understand is the amount of people on here that think we have no chance of beating the likes of Hamilton or Dundee in a 2 game play off final if we are in it. At the start of the season I would have taken 10th or 11th and I stand by that now. Now we await the calls for us to get Hartley in (he has just resigned from the Alloa job) Edited January 18, 2014 by Lindau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Didnt take you long to start posting again!!! Time to discuss the manager is at the end of the season. Get behind the team and manager for Gods sake. The guy is learning his trade in the top division,, so lets judge him at the end of the season. Yes he has made mistakes but its a learning curve for the guy. What I just cant understand is the amount of people on here that think we have no chance of beating the likes of Hamilton or Dundee in a 2 game play off final if we are in it. At the start of the season I would have taken 10th or 11th and I stand by that now. Now we await the calls for us to get Hartley in (he has just resigned from the Alloa job) FFS Lindau, why did you tell them that.They will be frothing at the mouth and wanking themselves silly over this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 Didnt take you long to start posting again!!! Time to discuss the manager is at the end of the season. Get behind the team and manager for Gods sake. The guy is learning his trade in the top division,, so lets judge him at the end of the season. Yes he has made mistakes but its a learning curve for the guy. What I just cant understand is the amount of people on here that think we have no chance of beating the likes of Hamilton or Dundee in a 2 game play off final if we are in it. At the start of the season I would have taken 10th or 11th and I stand by that now. Now we await the calls for us to get Hartley in (he has just resigned from the Alloa job) I think a number of us question Archie's decisions today eg leaving Taylor on when he was clearly spent, putting Elliott on the park at all I've never been a fan of having your manager in a job training scheme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 People need to realise that even if we finish 12th Archie wont be sacked, the club are looking at him as long term. Its clearly not going to happen we finish 12th anyway. If we are to ask questions it should be at the board if they cant provide funds when they have scuppered good fundraising ideas such as the dvd and TAG. Im surprised Killies Manager is not under more pressure, the only reason they have the likes of Boyd is because despite being £9 million in debt they are throwing money at players. If anything Derek Adams should be under the most pressure the only reason Ross County are going to be saved is because they really are throwing vast amounts of money to get players in. In both these cases its not Adams or Johnsons ability to keep them up but that both these clubs are spending ridiculous amounts to survive - which for whatever reason we simply cant compete with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) FFS Lindau, why did you tell them that.They will be frothing at the mouth and wanking themselves silly over this. I know GRE....I feckin despair at times on this forum. Guy has the smallest budget in the league, leaving Hearts out of it. Other than Baird, Mukendi and Kerr, I think he has brought in some excellent players, we play as good a style of football that we have seen at Firhill since the 71 LC winning side. The team is inexperienced, but so is the manager. Yes he has made mistakes and has stayed too loyal to certain players, but what manager hasnt? We need to stick by them all......thats what being a supporter is all about. If it means we have to go to the play offs to survive, so be it. I am confident we can beat anyone from that division in a 2 game play off, if it does come to that Edited January 18, 2014 by Lindau 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I agree the board won't sack Archie but he needs help IMO He has brought in 3 players do far in January so is getting support from the board But he has to accept responsibility for some if his decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scamps Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I agree the board won't sack Archie but he needs help IMO He has brought in 3 players do far in January so is getting support from the board But he has to accept responsibility for some if his decisions Like the decision to take out the attacker in the box? The decision not to chase down the rebound? Those decisions? Edited January 18, 2014 by Scamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I agree the board won't sack Archie but he needs help IMO He has brought in 3 players do far in January so is getting support from the board But he has to accept responsibility for some if his decisions Really? One loanee and two frees? I think that this was already in the budget, and a couple of players have left. Really haven't spent anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) I agree the board won't sack Archie but he needs help IMO You started this thread by saying he should be sacked.....now he needs help. Things are looking up then?? Celtic are the only side to beat us in 2014 and they were lucky to do that. Yeah lets sack the manager!! Edited January 18, 2014 by Lindau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 I never said he should be sacked ....check .... I've ways said he needs help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrybritton9 Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 He must stay. Change and instability are no good for the club. He must stay and he will learn. My boss told me that another member of staff had been trying to have a go at my ability. Her reply was to tell the person that I was young, inexperienced and was only 10 weeks in the job. She gave me time to make mistakes and learn. Give him time. It's not going well but we must unite behind Archie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) ok.....embarrassing...dreadful....amateurish bottom line Archie hasn't got it..... time he made for someone who knows what they are doing. From your very first post on this thread!!! Edited January 18, 2014 by Lindau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avie-man Posted January 18, 2014 Report Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) People need to realise that even if we finish 12th Archie wont be sacked, the club are looking at him as long term. Its clearly not going to happen we finish 12th anyway. If we are to ask questions it should be at the board if they cant provide funds when they have scuppered good fundraising ideas such as the dvd and TAG. Im surprised Killies Manager is not under more pressure, the only reason they have the likes of Boyd is because despite being £9 million in debt they are throwing money at players. If anything Derek Adams should be under the most pressure the only reason Ross County are going to be saved is because they really are throwing vast amounts of money to get players in. In both these cases its not Adams or Johnsons ability to keep them up but that both these clubs are spending ridiculous amounts to survive - which for whatever reason we simply cant compete with If the long term ambition of the club is signing St. Mirren scrubs and failing to stay up in a league as weak as it ever has been, and you could almost say the same for the league below with Dumbarton in a play off spot, then they can shove it. Theres nothing worth buying into. Plenty of time for the management team, the players and the board to change that though... Edited January 18, 2014 by avie-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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