eljaggo Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 No matter what happens in the next two matches, I fervently hope that Archie stays, and that he continues to play the attractive football we have played this season. I would rather see that than the hoof it and run tactics used by a lot of the teams we faced this year - Hibs are a prime example. Next year the young squad we have will be more experienced, and with a strengthening of the defence the team will do well. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P of D Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) No matter what happens in the next two matches, I fervently hope that Archie stays, and that he continues to play the attractive football we have played this season. I would rather see that than the hoof it and run tactics used by a lot of the teams we faced this year - Hibs are a prime example. Next year the young squad we have will be more experienced, and with a strengthening of the defence the team will do well. Hear, hear. Only come back to watching the Jags as a result of the classy passing game on show - a real treat. Would go further by saying that they appear to have allowed themselves to be deflected from that as the season has progressed - a confidence issue more than anything - and we really have been dragged down to the "long ball and hope" of many others. Against Kilmarnock was hoarse screaming for the simple easy ball, followed by another of the same ilk, when the players seemed to feel under pressure to play some long speculative ball, 90% of which resulted in loss of possession and immediate putting us under pressure again - bit of a vicious circle. Anyway, chins up - let`s do this and, as you say, build and prosper after the summer break. Edited May 4, 2014 by P of D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 I'm not dragging up an old thread so I'll make the point here. The manager's post match comments on the official site... Did anyone see him on the touchline telling his players to press high? I certainly didn't. Compare that to the muppets that is Terry Butcher who spent most of the afternoon waving players over & giving them instructions. I'm not saying our manager should've been doing same but if there was something he didn't like or didn't want then why was he not out instructing his players? Which brings me on to the next point. Is he learning? Aside from the amount of goals we concede in the last 5 minutes of games, back in December, Hibs are 1 down at home & lump high balls into the box. What happens? We drop off too deep & don't defend 1st or 2nd balls which leads to their equaliser. Wind the clock forward 6 months. (Or even look at the forum thread from last week). & you know that Hibs under different management are going to be even more direct. What happens? We drop deeper & deeper against 10 men as they lump high balls from their new centre half Liam Craig. We don't defend a high straight ball which leads to tenor equaliser. I'm sorry but either the team isn't learning, the management team aren't learning or both. Ultimately though the buck has to stop with the manager. Especially as he's saying he can see what's happening. What did he do about it though? Do you really think this is down to not learning? That he teaches sitting far back and defending for dear life? For me it's a natual mental thing that causes players to sit back when defending a narrow advantage, particularly when low on confidence. On top of this, attrocious luck with regards to injuries to defensive midfield players left our midfield light against a strong, if not particularly skilful Hibs midfield. Should we stay up, I think we'll be much improved next season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 4, 2014 Members Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 The sitting back too deep has happened too much this season for it to be the management teams fault now. I'm certain the players will have been told countless times. If they are not learning then Archie will need to get in players that will learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 We have two managers who were excellent defenders, and who could marshall defences. They must have dinned defensive tactics into the players for the whole of the season, and still it is the stick-out fault in the team. Therefore the players are the guilty ones. They have had their chance, time to move on with 2 or 3 good defenders signed over the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Do you really think this is down to not learning? That he teaches sitting far back and defending for dear life? For me it's a natual mental thing that causes players to sit back when defending a narrow advantage, particularly when low on confidence. On top of this, attrocious luck with regards to injuries to defensive midfield players left our midfield light against a strong, if not particularly skilful Hibs midfield. Should we stay up, I think we'll be much improved next season. The sitting back too deep has happened too much this season for it to be the management teams fault now. I'm certain the players will have been told countless times. If they are not learning then Archie will need to get in players that will learn. We have two managers who were excellent defenders, and who could marshall defences. They must have dinned defensive tactics into the players for the whole of the season, and still it is the stick-out fault in the team. Therefore the players are the guilty ones. They have had their chance, time to move on with 2 or 3 good defenders signed over the summer. So from the above 3 posts, it's the players who are solely at fault & the management team are excused of any blame? That the manager, who spent last Summer chasing Lee Mair to come to the club, had numerous centre half trialists in, eventually signed someone after a week's training & a half decent game in a friendly then got his main target in January, will bring in better defenders this Summer? Will that still be the case if we go down? I'm assuming it was the manager also that have the majority of this defence 2 years contracts? But then his comments on the official site were about defending from the front so does that mean we'll need new strikers & midfielders also? The guy's a club legend & I'd love him to be successful as well as keep us up but can't see it. We're going back the way in terms of football played & there's the whole predictability about our play. He hasn't deviated from the same formation all season despite to always having the personnel on the park to play it. Anyway, no point in dissecting it again. I just hope that there's an improvement & soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 4, 2014 Members Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Yes, I'd definitely blame the defenders for not doing what they're instructed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 We have two managers who were excellent defenders, and who could marshall defences. They must have dinned defensive tactics into the players for the whole of the season, and still it is the stick-out fault in the team. Therefore the players are the guilty ones. They have had their chance, time to move on with 2 or 3 good defenders signed over the summer. Our defence has been our key weakness all season and has to be sorted in the summer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Piccolo was at fault for the goal. He just let Stanton run clear in the box. Not the first, or second, or third time he has been at fault for a goal. Archie signed him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 4 clean sheets in 36 league games simply not good enough plus our poor home form . ... Top 2 things on the to do list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 4 clean sheets in 36 league games simply not good enough plus our poor home form . ... Top 2 things on the to do list It's a shocking record and, given the positions our managers played , most disapointing. One of the worst aspects all season is how easily we let the cross ball come in .Our full backs and wide players seem to think that if you dont let the guy past you then thats ok but the main point of defending out there is to FECKIN STOP THE CROSS..Erskine actually lent back to get out of the way of the cross that led to St Mirrens penalty last week. If you watch even the few minutes of the highlights of the Hibs game you can see this happening two or three times also.Are the players being told not to dive in? I can never understan when a defender runs 15 yards to challange an opposition player and then does nothing when they get there. It's somthing we've not stepped up from last season , On wednesday we have to pressure Hearts at every opportunity and put the bodies on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Very disappointing to lose a late goal but it’s a good point. Don’t think people are giving Hibs enough credit here – they played very well and if the ball had ran for them they would have won the game. Very surprised Archie played Erskine – I thought he was very poor against St Mirren. Elliott would have been a much better option here and I expect he will start on Wednesday night in front of Chris. The midfield was a problem yesterday as there is no proper balance there. Both Fraser and Banzo are too lightweight together. We badly miss Ozzy in these types of games; he would have made a big difference in the game. We played with 5 midfielders yesterday and none are what you describe as a ‘tackler’. The upside to the injuries to Welsh and Ozzy is that both Banzo and Fraser have got plenty of experience at this level, both have a big future in the game. Doolan played well and took his goal well but I thought Taylor was excellent when he came on. Would be very happy if we managed to keep him as I think he could improve further. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) I'm not dragging up an old thread so I'll make the point here. The manager's post match comments on the official site... Did anyone see him on the touchline telling his players to press high? I certainly didn't. Compare that to the muppets that is Terry Butcher who spent most of the afternoon waving players over & giving them instructions. I'm not saying our manager should've been doing same but if there was something he didn't like or didn't want then why was he not out instructing his players? Which brings me on to the next point. Is he learning? Aside from the amount of goals we concede in the last 5 minutes of games, back in December, Hibs are 1 down at home & lump high balls into the box. What happens? We drop off too deep & don't defend 1st or 2nd balls which leads to their equaliser. Wind the clock forward 6 months. (Or even look at the forum thread from last week). & you know that Hibs under different management are going to be even more direct. What happens? We drop deeper & deeper against 10 men as they lump high balls from their new centre half Liam Craig. We don't defend a high straight ball which leads to tenor equaliser. I'm sorry but either the team isn't learning, the management team aren't learning or both. Ultimately though the buck has to stop with the manager. Especially as he's saying he can see what's happening. What did he do about it though? Paterson was going crazy on the touchline near the end. Edited May 4, 2014 by Alan Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 Piccolo was at fault for the goal. He just let Stanton run clear in the box. Not the first, or second, or third time he has been at fault for a goal. Archie signed him though. I wonder if you posted anything positive about Gabriel after our last visit to Easter Rd. Osbourne apart, who had his best game for us that day, Gabby was clearly the next best Jags player. I assume you wouldn't have posted anything positive despite an outstanding display simply as Archie signed him, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 I think teams instinctively start to play deeper when their up against it. It takes a leader to move them out and keep them further up the park unfortunately we don't have anyone who fits that bill in midfield. Gallagher generally organises his defence well but sometimes it needs a centre half or a midfielder to push them on. Next season we need a leader on the park, someone to draw a line in the sand ( 70's throwback) and say no further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 I wonder if you posted anything positive about Gabriel after our last visit to Easter Rd. Osbourne apart, who had his best game for us that day, Gabby was clearly the next best Jags player. I assume you wouldn't have posted anything positive despite an outstanding display simply as Archie signed him, So are you saying that he's good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 4, 2014 Report Share Posted May 4, 2014 So are you saying that he's good? I'm suggesting you're more at home when you post negative comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trotter Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Paterson was going crazy on the touchline near the end. For me both of them should've been doing it!! The message might have got across. Can't be @rsed going over old ground again but this last 5 minutes & conceding has been there since August/September. If we'd held out in any one of those games we'd be safe now. As it is, that stat along with 4 clean sheets all season & 2 home wins means we're in the sticky stuff when we should be thinking about the beach. The Sunnylaw Jag: I agree with you as regards a leader. We needed one at the start of the season. I think most jags fans would've agreed that we needed a big lump of a centre half that would attack everything in the air & a centre forward to challenge Doolan. We had plenty of time over last Summer to get one but ended up with another young boy with no experience of the Scottish game & no one up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 A commanding centre back who attacks the ball in BOTH boxes is what we need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) For me both of them should've been doing it!! The message might have got across. Can't be @rsed going over old ground again but this last 5 minutes & conceding has been there since August/September. If we'd held out in any one of those games we'd be safe now. As it is, that stat along with 4 clean sheets all season & 2 home wins means we're in the sticky stuff when we should be thinking about the beach. The Sunnylaw Jag: I agree with you as regards a leader. We needed one at the start of the season. I think most jags fans would've agreed that we needed a big lump of a centre half that would attack everything in the air & a centre forward to challenge Doolan. We had plenty of time over last Summer to get one but ended up with another young boy with no experience of the Scottish game & no one up front. Does it need two people to shout it? lol The reason we are struggling at times is our lack of experience at this level. These players demand wages we cannot afford. If you want to blame Archie for that then fair enough. But even if we do double our budget next year then it will still probably be short of most of the other teams in this league. Lambie kept the team in the SPL using mostly experienced players - Archie looks like he is going to do this with a team mostly made up of players untested at this level. I think that deserves a lot of praise. If Archie can bring in more experience next year then we can consolidate our position in this league. Edited May 5, 2014 by Alan Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Does it need two people to shout it? lol The reason we are struggling at times is our lack of experience at this level. These players demand wages we cannot afford. If you want to blame Archie for that then fair enough. But even if we do double our budget next year then it will still probably be short of most of the other teams in this league. Lambie kept the team in the SPL using mostly experienced players - Archie looks like he is going to do this with a team mostly made up of players untested at this level. I think that deserves a lot of praise. If Archie can bring in more experience next year then we can consolidate our position in this league. We will need to really sort out the defence for next season given rangers/ hearts could be the playoff team...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 We will need to really sort out the defence for next season given rangers/ hearts could be the playoff team...... Perhaps your most optimistic comment. We're staying up. Yippee! AND we're not going to be bottom team next season. Doubled your dose of anti-depressants today, javeajag? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well we need to do it no matter what league we are in...... I hope we stay and given where we are I think we will I'm still not convinced by the management team though as we should already be safe But then I'm an optimist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I'm an optimist! i think everyone should step back from their computer (or mobile device), and just let this sink in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 5, 2014 Report Share Posted May 5, 2014 I am really struggling with this idea that we should have had better centre halfs/centre forwards at the start of the season. I thought that we had tried to get Taylor and Mair but they couldn't or wouldn't come to Firhill at that time. In addition to that where are all these guys that would keep us out of trouble, certainly not at Hibs,Ross County,Killie,Hearts or St M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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