Just In From Easter Road

[potty trained]

 

 

Left those two snippets as that probably sums you & many others up.

 

"Club Legend"- So he's untouchable?

 

He's given great service to PTFC but when DU came calling as a player he was off (not saying he's wrong as you have to look after your own interests) and if he made a success as manger don't kid yourself that he wouldn't go elsewhere. You've said yourself that if another manager came in that's what they would do. Why wouldn't Alan Archibald?

 

It's been said so many times by so many people- no room for sentiment in football.

 

It's a business.

 

"Time to learn?" - How long? If you're in a job & the same mistake continually occurs what would happen?

 

It would be one of two things. You'd either be given a mentor to make sure you don't cost the company any more money or you'd be shown the door.

 

It's a business.

 

As for the managers that I mentioned, I don't know if they would or wouldn't be interested but if you haven't got a job & want to rebuild your managerial career then the money doesn't become an issue as these guys are probably comfortable after playing careers.

 

We're the poorest team in the league with the 6th biggest attendance. Now I'm not suggesting the BoD throw money (like most of them have much interest in the club any way except for how much money the Bing & the Main Stand can get them. Business!!). However if we survive it's already been said that the budget will significantly increase.

 

Does the current managerial team have the contacts in the game to bring in players other than ex team mates or players they're friendly with?

 

I guess we'll know in the Summer.

 

If we go down, does the managerial team have the contacts to fill the gaps left by the boys that move on other than guys they've played with or are friendly with (many coming to end of career).

 

Archibald already stated that agents offering him players. Why say that? Surely he should be scouting his own rather than being offered players? Thought that was a strange comment.

 

But for the last time I'll say it. Tactically naive. No plan B. Same system all season & when he does change it through subs the players look baffled- Hearts at home springs to mind.

 

Substitutions. Predictable. Many others have said the same.

 

He's learning. Well Hartley learned in 3rd Div, as did Levein, Lennon, Johnston to name 3. Top flight football not the best place to learn your trade I'd suggest. Sure some make a success but many more don't.

 

If, and still is a big if, we go down, how long before we get back up? But it's ok as Archibald a club legend.

 

BTW, I'm assuming you never called for Dick Campbell's sacking? That's not the club you're supporting as you say.

 

 

Now I remember why I was going to put you on ignore.

[peagreenboy]

 

*sigh* if you're seriously comparing the the football we play under Archibald to that under Campbell, well, what is there to say?

 

Football is much more than a business, it's an entertainment and a shared exercise in community. No one has to support any team, you choose yours (especially in a city such as ours which has more than two) on what you feel it represents to you. You grow to feel a sense of camaraderie, hopefully friendship, with your fellow fans, and at the best of times, the players on the park.

 

Dick Campbell failed on both of these requirements. The football was so poor it actively discouraged people away, as it offered no entertainment whatsoever. He alienated the fans and so did the players, as so many clearly didn't care about playing for the club at all. It is never just about results, otherwise we would have kept Campbell on when he got us promoted.

 

It has taken Thistle many, many years to recover from that spell.

 

Archibald is a club legend. He is also someone who obviously cares a lot for the club, and isn't about to do a McNamara if he does well here. He's also been in the job a little over a year, and still has a lot to learn. A lot - and I for one am more than willing to give him that time, lots of time in fact, whether we're in the top league or the second league.

 

I really couldn't care less which league we are in. That isn't very important to me. What is important to me is looking forward to Saturdays - actually being excited for the next match instead of feeling indifference - and feeling like I'm part of something more than just a business. I have supported Thistle for 20 years now, two thirds of my life, and have watched Archibald right from the very beginning, like the rest of us. The football in the past two seasons has been more exciting and entertaining than in almost any other season I can recall. This season has actually felt vital, as did the last, and it doesn't have anything to do with trophies and success, it's so much more than that.

 

I'd rather share the journey with him wherever it leads, rather than bring in [insert manager here] to get us seventh next year, only for him to piss off to a bigger club at the end of the season (if we're lucky to get a full term, that is).

 

If it's all just a business and results to you, then you should just pick the team with the biggest budget at the start of the season, and follow them, as they will win more games than everyone else. Support Manchester City, as they will buy success and get it, until someone richer arrives at another club to spend even more money ... then go support them.

 

YOUR post sums you and so many others up, and what contributes to making this forum such a horrible slog these days. It's like you can't see the wood for the tees, that it's all about results and success and some fantasy that we'll become a top six side if only x, y and z were changed. We'll get into the top six when we're rich. Until then we'll be shite like we've always been, and that's fine.

 

I think that's why the constant negative moaners on this forum are so annoying, because they seem to be missing something fundamental about our club and what it means.

 

p.s. I don't know why you bring up scouting, as we all know there isn't a scouting network at Firhill right now. The club is still poor until one of us wins the Euromillions. We don't have moron Texans buying up the club like at Dundee (and I'm sure that'll work out well for them). Attendances and financial backing and debts and how clubs are runs are all different topics, and have little to do directly with Alan Archibald.

 

Next season, even with a "significant wage increase" we'll be at the bottom of the table for wages - which means a fight for survival once more. Even Alex f***king Ferguson wouldn't change that. If that's not your brand of vodka, then it's just a business, take yours elsewhere.

 

 

Now I remember why I was going to put you on ignore.

 

Good point.

Edited May 6, 2014 by peagreenboy

[Trotter]

 

 

 

Now I remember why I was going to put you on ignore.

 

Be my guest.

 

Spit the dummy because someone has a different opinion from you.

 

[Paulo]

So to sum it up, what we really need in the summer is to erect some sort of electronic sign facing the crowd. The manager can post his instructions and the whole crowd can then shout it at the team. Then they'll be better, because more people are shouting at them.

 

When we stay up (note the optimism), I'd say we are pretty much at least achieving our targets. It also looks like the club have got some long-term planning on the go with the academy. We're getting a reputation for playing decent football, and all round being a decent club. We'll be in a position to offer decent terms and the chance of first-team football to some of the better prospects out there. But we really do need to stop a few crosses being put in, that's frustrating at times.

[Trotter]

Peagreenboy:

 

Not dissecting your last post bit by bit but will say a few things.

 

1) Where did I ask you or say about style of football? You mentioned about folk not giving Archibald time to learn & fans getting on his back not giving him time to learn.

 

I asked did you call for Campbell's head? Did you think he might have needed time to learn how Thistle play?

 

*I don't btw, but just interested if the same luxury was afforded to him? If you're 30 then your era Lambie onwards. What about Gerry Britton or Derek Whyte? Did you call for their heads? Gerry Collins? He didn't get much of a chance. Sandy Clark?

 

2) You honestly think Archibald wouldn't go elsewhere if he was a success? You're being silly now.

 

3) Your comment on the forum being a drag because of folk like me & others like me. You're 30 so been through school & know how to use a dictionary. Go look at definition of 'forum'.

 

I disagree with your assessment. Tell you why & ask a question- which you don't have the common decency to answer.

 

Please press the ignore button as you've said.

 

For everyone else, I'm not anti Alan Archibald. I for one think we've under achieved this season. By that I don't mean top 6 but I think we should've comfortably avoided the drop.

 

If we didn't repeat the same mistakes of conceding goals in the last 5 minutes then we would easily be on our Summer hols by now.

 

The Hearts game at home was just awful & made my mind up that he's out of his depth. Whether he needs a mentor to learn from is another debate altogether but he doesn't seem to be learning from previous mistakes!!

 

I don't claim to be a better fan than anyone else & in the time I've watched Thistle (longer than Peagreenboy has been on Earth btw) bounce up. & down leagues. Especially in last the last decade where it's been down to mismanagement at board level as well as on the pitch.

 

I've done coaching badges to 'B' level & played to a reasonably high standard before I got injured. I don't then think I can be a top flight coach though.

 

I admire how Archibald (& Paterson) stepped up to the plate last season & got us over the line. I repeat though, that means nothing now.

 

I don't expect us to be anything other than the team we were in the 70s. A top flight team who will develop players & occasionally give us something to shout about or excited about in cup competitions. I'd love to see us play the football we were last season & start of this in top flight.

 

Pains me to say it but the previous manager has proved it can be done with his current team.

 

I don't want a return to the mid/late 80s where we changed manager every other season it seemed even though I'm as suspicious of the current BoD as I was of Ken Bates.

 

Am I being over ambitious?

 

Maybe I'm in a minority of one & others like Potty Trained & Peagreenboy are happy whatever league we're in so long as we're playing football.

 

I dunno!!

 

[Juan Kerr]

I loathe and detest talk of a Plan B. What its exponents really mean is sticking a big man up front and lumping balls up to him when we're trailing in a game. Then of course it'll extend to when we're holding on grimly to a 1 goal lead...and pretty soon we're no different from all the other bottom 6 (actually make that 10) teams.

 

Do we start training that way right through the Youth Academy? "Right lads, the 4-2-3-1 has been working pretty well all season, but for the final period in each of our games next season we're going to stick Big Shuggie up front and practice lumping it up and collecting the scraps. That way you'll fit seamlessly into the big team when the time comes."

 

I'm sure that was the Ajax way too.

[javeajag]

If Dundee Utd approached Archibald to be their manager do you think he would go ? Of course he would just as he did as a player

Any manager that won 2 home games and had only 4 clean sheets in 36 games should be subject to some criticism at least!

It's the repitition of the same mistakes and the failure to learn that is hard to understand

 

And I do care what division we play in !!!

[Trotter]

I loathe and detest talk of a Plan B. What its exponents really mean is sticking a big man up front and lumping balls up to him when we're trailing in a game. Then of course it'll extend to when we're holding on grimly to a 1 goal lead...and pretty soon we're no different from all the other bottom 6 (actually make that 10) teams.

 

Do we start training that way right through the Youth Academy? "Right lads, the 4-2-3-1 has been working pretty well all season, but for the final period in each of our games next season we're going to stick Big Shuggie up front and practice lumping it up and collecting the scraps. That way you'll fit seamlessly into the big team when the time comes."

 

I'm sure that was the Ajax way too.

 

I agree & get where you're coming from. I meant in the sense that when things aren't working. We only seem to change personnel rather than positions.

 

I'm not comparing us to Ajax (yet) but the difference being every single one of those boys (the academy players anyway) are comfortable in many diff positions. We don't have that (again it's a yet) so Kris Doolan isn't comfortable playing in midfield same way as Balatoni not comfortable as a centre forward.

 

What I will say is that when Ajax, Barcelona's plan B or whatever isn't working & they need a goal even they resort to sticking the big centre half up for the last 5 & hoping for the best.

 

I think that's probably same at under 10 level on a Sat morn the world over!!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I agree & get where you're coming from. I meant in the sense that when things aren't working. We only seem to change personnel rather than positions.

 

I'm not comparing us to Ajax (yet) but the difference being every single one of those boys (the academy players anyway) are comfortable in many diff positions. We don't have that (again it's a yet) so Kris Doolan isn't comfortable playing in midfield same way as Balatoni not comfortable as a centre forward.

 

What I will say is that when Ajax, Barcelona's plan B or whatever isn't working & they need a goal even they resort to sticking the big centre half up for the last 5 & hoping for the best.

 

I think that's probably same at under 10 level on a Sat morn the world over!!

 

I only know about the Under 20s and despite how a game is going they tend to stick to formation. If behind later on they do probably go a bit more direct and up the pace a good deal. I think that's a conscious managerial policy and thus will probably be the same further down the age groups. Billko might know if that's the case.

Slightly off on a tangent one of the by products of having so many key players out on loan is these youngsters are learning to play in different positions. Full backs playing centrebacks, attacking midfielder as a sole striker, midfielders swapping roles and even a winger playing full back. All thru necessity but a decent education. The downside being more inevitable poor results, which could affect morale.

On your general point I think it's only commonsense for defenders to break ranks later in a game that you're chasing just as you don't necessarily put defenders up for attacking set pieces if you're winning comfortably. I would add it doesn't need to be a case of sticking up a centreback. If we had all our players fit I could see Big Osbourne take on that role. In fact I seem to mind he did just that at a game at Firhill.

[potty trained]

 

It's the repitition of the same mistakes and the failure to learn that is hard to understand

 

 

And it's the reputation of your posts placing the blame firmly at one persons door, that see you carry very little respect from anyone on here.

 

Imagine you started a thread squared at the defence, along the lines of:

 

Every week we see it, Archie and shaggy on the touch line, gal too. Urging our defence forward, trying to push them up the park. Every week the defence sit back on Gal, why is this? Is it nerves of the play off? Is it inexperience of being in this position of teams applying such direct pressure?

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I think you've made your mind up, it's nothing to do with nerves or inexperience or just an acceptance that "that's what happens"... To you it's Archie's fault.

[javeajag]

 

 

And it's the reputation of your posts placing the blame firmly at one persons door, that see you carry very little respect from anyone on here.

 

Imagine you started a thread squared at the defence, along the lines of:

 

Every week we see it, Archie and shaggy on the touch line, gal too. Urging our defence forward, trying to push them up the park. Every week the defence sit back on Gal, why is this? Is it nerves of the play off? Is it inexperience of being in this position of teams applying such direct pressure?

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately I think you've made your mind up, it's nothing to do with nerves or inexperience or just an acceptance that "that's what happens"... To you it's Archie's fault.

 

We'll... Lee Mair would I think be in the experienced player category and the rest of them have now played 36 games at the top level yet as I understand you ....

- they don't listen to the manager

- don't understand what's being said

- or do their own thing

Not sure what make of that except somebody is accountable and if the manager isn't then it's the players ?

 

Well in football the manager carries the can

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Well in football the manager carries the can

 

.....and Archie's peg just got shooglier. Shiels has resigned at Morton

[BowenBoys]

What we need is a respected, experienced manager like Terry Butcher. I don't imagine we would be in this position now.

[Duke Gekantawa]

I

Any manager that won 2 home games and had only 4 clean sheets in 36 games should be subject to some criticism at least!

It's the repitition of the same mistakes and the failure to learn that is hard to understand

 

And he is subject to criticism. Nobody's saying he hasn't made mistakes. However, for me there's the following positives:

the manner of last season's promotion

The way we play

The fact we don't lose many games

The fact we regularly get into winning positions in the first place

The fact we are still on course for our main target of 10th or above

The fact that, while it feels we've got a very dodgy defence, it's no worse (and in many cases better) than all the teams around us (Hibs aside)

 

As to not understanding the repetition of mistakes, surely that's easy to understand. It's harder to understand and deal with making different mistakes every game, I would say. It seems to me that, having conceded so many leads and late goals, we panic and retreat when we have the lead. The issue is psychological and can be difficult to overcome. It's a confidence thing and once the confidence returns, I suspect the problem will go away.

 

[Trotter]

If we don't make it safe from here, who should take responsibility?

[billko]

I only know about the Under 20s and despite how a game is going they tend to stick to formation. If behind later on they do probably go a bit more direct and up the pace a good deal. I think that's a conscious managerial policy and thus will probably be the same further down the age groups. Billko might know if that's the case.

Slightly off on a tangent one of the by products of having so many key players out on loan is these youngsters are learning to play in different positions. Full backs playing centrebacks, attacking midfielder as a sole striker, midfielders swapping roles and even a winger playing full back. All thru necessity but a decent education.

The youth sides all play the same system as the first team but the coaches have been allowed at times to try other formations like going 2 up top etc but not very often.

What you do see is players being coached to play different positions and be comfortable in these different positions when they are asked to play there.

[The Cup]

If we don't make it safe from here, who should take responsibility?

 

javeajag is my guess.

[Trotter]

 

 

javeajag is my guess.

 

I'd have thought it might by you or me to be honest!

[Duke Gekantawa]

If we don't make it safe from here, who should take responsibility?

Collectively, the manager, players and support set-up all should shoulder some blame, if that situation arises. However, I remain of the opinion that we should retain Archie's services even then, as I enjoy the way we play. I accept others will disagree with this.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The youth sides all play the same system as the first team but the coaches have been allowed at times to try other formations like going 2 up top etc but not very often.

What you do see is players being coached to play different positions and be comfortable in these different positions when they are asked to play there.