Woodstock Jag Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 There's been a lot of discussion about the way forward for the Jags Trust on here of late, but if we as a support want to make good our intentions we need to be united. The Trust is what its members make it, and if you want to shape it into something different, the first thing you can do is make sure that you join/renew or rejoin. This is really easy to do through PayPal on the Trust's website, and I'd urge you to all to join in time for the AGM not only to hold the Trust to account, but also to strengthen its mandate moving forward as a voice of the fans, by informing and involving more and more of those traipsing along to Firhill. If you want to join the Trust, click here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 When are the renewals due? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 12, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 When are the renewals due? Renewal reminders are being sent out shortly with official notice of the AGM, but people can renew at any point. If people want to attend the AGM, they should make sure they renew at some point before it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Existing members will be ok for the AGM (although we won't refuse your money before then). If it's convenient people can renew (or join) on the evening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot Shot Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 (edited) The Trust is what its members make it Sadly this is only too true,as clearly demostrated in past voting.And that's why it's on its arse. Edited August 12, 2010 by Hot Shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 Sadly this is only too true,as clearly demostrated in past voting.And that's why it's on its arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 It's like deja vu here! We've been here before, a few times now by my counting and the Jags Trust still remains a deid duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ma Ba' Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 No thanks. Why not? If you must make a negative response at least take the time to give the Trust members your opinion if you have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire Jag Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Very few comments and mostly negative so far. I don't have the answers to the Jags woes and how we move forward, influence and/or get a new board, so I don't get involved in the sometimes heated (insult throwing) debates on here. However, many of you have strong opinions and the only way of voicing those and getting these to the boardroom is, as I see it, via the Trust. Being away from Firhill, nostalgia and blind faith make me sign up for any Jags-related fund raising. If I was there, I could perhaps put myself forward for treasurer, but I'm not a strong enough personality or ideas person that I could bring anything to the table, so my support is purely financial. So my message to those of strong opinion is that the only way the Jags Trust will work is if you put some effort into making it work - "Make it your Jags Trust" - join and voice those opinions in person at the AGM, not hide behind the alias' on here. Surely working together to achieve this will be far more effective than being part of a mob outside Firhill shouting "Sack the Board". Jim Rudge Edited August 13, 2010 by Wiltshire Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 It's like deja vu here! We've been here before, a few times now by my counting and the Jags Trust still remains a deid duck. That's true about the deja vu. For as long as I can remember there's been folk sitting on the sidelines telling us all how deid a duck the Trust is. For just as long I can't mind many of those same informed analysts suggest an alternative. There's no doubting that the Trust in its various guises has threatened to implode on its own without the assistance of those perennial detractors. Good people with good ideas have come and gone, no doubt often leaving in various degrees of disillusionment, but at least they tried to make a difference usually after putting a lot of time and effort into their attempt. Maybe folk are meaning the Trust is deceased waterfowl as any attempt to galvanise our support is doomed to failure because we're all a bunch of incapable of being organised haddies. That could be the case but it's a hell of a negative stance to take. So perhaps those Trust detractors could come up with an alternative then perhaps even act on it? If not why not leave us members to squander our annual tenners or fivers without the almost ritual comments? btw this rant maybe prompted by above post (and those similar) but not the poster who, if my intuition is right I recognise from previous Jags websites. If correct in my assumption Vom Itorium has in the past made countless valuable and positive posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapwithwings Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 That's true about the deja vu. For as long as I can remember there's been folk sitting on the sidelines telling us all how deid a duck the Trust is. For just as long I can't mind many of those same informed analysts suggest an alternative. There's no doubting that the Trust in its various guises has threatened to implode on its own without the assistance of those perennial detractors. Good people with good ideas have come and gone, no doubt often leaving in various degrees of disillusionment, but at least they tried to make a difference usually after putting a lot of time and effort into their attempt. Maybe folk are meaning the Trust is deceased waterfowl as any attempt to galvanise our support is doomed to failure because we're all a bunch of incapable of being organised haddies. That could be the case but it's a hell of a negative stance to take. So perhaps those Trust detractors could come up with an alternative then perhaps even act on it? If not why not leave us members to squander our annual tenners or fivers without the almost ritual comments? btw this rant maybe prompted by above post (and those similar) but not the poster who, if my intuition is right I recognise from previous Jags websites. If correct in my assumption Vom Itorium has in the past made countless valuable and positive posts. So you're saying the Trust should be allowed to shill on here without criticism then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapwithwings Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Why not? If you must make a negative response at least take the time to give the Trust members your opinion if you have one. How about the Trust give people a reason TO join first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 How about the Trust give people a reason TO join first? The reason for folk to join is quite simple in my eyes, it is the one and only fans representative body and no other body will have the influence within the Club the Jags Trust can have. While people squabble about the Trust and membership is low that influence is limited, what I find ironic is that those who seem passionate enough (and clued up enough) to make a difference within the Trust are the very folk who have loads to say on its problems while blindly refusing to accept that they can make that difference. The same folk are saying the same things in a variety of ways but the be all and end all is that the Trust is a 'died duck' or a 'busted flush' because we the fans have allowed it to happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 So you're saying the Trust should be allowed to shill on here without criticism then? in no way, the more criticism the better but constructive rather than destructive criticism would be preferable. It's not unlike the sack the board patter. I'll defend anyone chanting it at a match, making up banners etc, in fact I kinda support that sort of thing. But that's a far cry from coming on here and just posting sack the board without any alternative suggestions. Rather similarly posting about scrapping the Jags Trust without suggesting any viable alternatives is just as pointless. Sorry I should have added an "imo" to the last sentence as I believe we have to have an open to all supporters association representing the fanbase. Valued criticism would be that the Trust falls far short of that and here's how to improve it or indeed scrap it and let's do this instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Sorry I should have added an "imo" to the last sentence as I believe we have to have an open to all supporters association representing the fanbase. Valued criticism would be that the Trust falls far short of that and here's how to improve it or indeed scrap it and let's do this instead. One of the main aims of a supporters trust is about fans being involved in the running of the football club. Having a place on the board is the most visible and meaningful way in which can start to happen but it's certainly not the end of the matter. Most Trust's start out from a position of conflict and/or crisis and very often exist in a climate of distrust and suspicion with the boards of their clubs. In many respects, we have matched that profile in recent years not withstanding that the Trust was originally established in slightly different circumstance (i.e. it was largely driven by the restructuring of the club following STJ and needed a legal framework in which fans could collectively own the shares allocated to them) Some fans may not believe that fans should be involved in the running of their clubs (and I do think that's a qualitatively different point from any club board worth their salt following what amounts to good quality customer care). If not, then joining a supporters trust is probably not for you as its' aims and your beliefs would seem to be at odds. As such, a Supporters Trust which has a representative on any club board has a difficult task to balance out taking part in decisions in which they they do not wholeheartedly believe. That should not, imo, stop them being openly critical on any aspect of a club's direction (I've always differentiated between the responsibilities of the Trust Board and those of the individual on the club board for this very reason) but, equally, that precludes throwing your toys out of the pram every time decisions don't go the way you want them to. Again, that the Trust haven't done so is another reason why many are dismissive. But it's always struck me that if you want to exert any influence (regardless of how much/little it is taken heed of) then you need to be involved where it matters. It's too easy to step right outside of that but the end result is that whatever level of influence is disippated entirely. Within that context, I still think there's much that the Trust can do to be more inclusive - and that doesn't need to preclude reaching out to the fans that are not members. I also think there's a mindset change that's needed from the club and that many only be possible if some of the human obstacles are taken out of the equation. But, at the end of the day, there are also reasons why people might not want to be members. However, it does strike me that any of the alternative route allows people to keep their purity in exchange for some level of influence. And, apart from all that, roll on the 10th September Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Why not? If you must make a negative response at least take the time to give the Trust members your opinion if you have one. Because I see the trust as a similar clique to the BoD. That is the reason many good people have stepped up to the trust board and then left as soon as they could. It is not working as a voice of the fans in my opinion. I used to be a member but there is no chance I'll rejoin it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags365 Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Because I see the trust as a similar clique to the BoD. That is the reason many good people have stepped up to the trust board and then left as soon as they could. It is not working as a voice of the fans in my opinion. I used to be a member but there is no chance I'll rejoin it. And you've been told this by who? Also, just to re-iterate, IF people think that the Trust board is cliquey then the only way to break that up is to become involved and stand for election, get co-opted or whatever. Simply sniping from the sidelines isn't going to change much - at least not for the better imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapwithwings Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 The reason for folk to join is quite simple in my eyes, it is the one and only fans representative body and no other body will have the influence within the Club the Jags Trust can have. While people squabble about the Trust and membership is low that influence is limited, what I find ironic is that those who seem passionate enough (and clued up enough) to make a difference within the Trust are the very folk who have loads to say on its problems while blindly refusing to accept that they can make that difference. The same folk are saying the same things in a variety of ways but the be all and end all is that the Trust is a 'died duck' or a 'busted flush' because we the fans have allowed it to happen! Ok. There's two mindsets. For the Trust - which is why we have the regular shill-posts. And agin the Trust - hence the Deid Duck-ers. What are the trust doing to engage with the latter and see how their concerns and viewpoints can be accomodated? What are the latter doing to engage the former and try to change the trust? And what of the floating voters in between who sit in the crossfire between the two. The title of this threat says 'Make it your Jags Trust'. The problem for me is that it isn't my Jags Trust. I can't honestly say I know what the Trust stands for these days. It's apparently not for voicing the views of the support. It's apparently not for protecting the club from being run into the ground by the board - the abstention over Propco showed that. What actually is it FOR? Fundraising? Campaigning? Trying to take ownership? Being the BoD's Pravda arm? It's easy for the trust to pop up and say 'Make it your Trust' and get involved etc.or that the only way to change things is to be a part of it. But I don't see them spelling WHY folk should get involved, or what they have achieved this season, or what their aims are for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok. There's two mindsets. For the Trust - which is why we have the regular shill-posts. And agin the Trust - hence the Deid Duck-ers. What are the trust doing to engage with the latter and see how their concerns and viewpoints can be accomodated? What are the latter doing to engage the former and try to change the trust? And what of the floating voters in between who sit in the crossfire between the two. The title of this threat says 'Make it your Jags Trust'. The problem for me is that it isn't my Jags Trust. I can't honestly say I know what the Trust stands for these days. It's apparently not for voicing the views of the support. It's apparently not for protecting the club from being run into the ground by the board - the abstention over Propco showed that. What actually is it FOR? Fundraising? Campaigning? Trying to take ownership? Being the BoD's Pravda arm? It's easy for the trust to pop up and say 'Make it your Trust' and get involved etc.or that the only way to change things is to be a part of it. But I don't see them spelling WHY folk should get involved, or what they have achieved this season, or what their aims are for next season. I dont disagree with any of that, but I think the whole point of the thread title is slightly laying down the gauntlet to eveyone (members or not) do make the Trust what you want it to be. Do you think everyone who is currently a member is happy? I'm an unhappy member because we have a tool that is not being used properly, not doing the best it can and not having the influence it could have. The reasons why it has got to that stage are wide and varied as far as I can tell but the issue now is how to move forward. I think we are at a stage when we have no option but to 'ask not what your Trust can do for you, but what you can do for your Trust'. Thats not intended to dismiss the problems or the questions you ask, more to draw a line under certain things and move forward. Can we move forward or can someone come up with a better alternative to the Trust? That's the 2 pressing questions that no-one seems to want to answer. There have been ideas mooted on various threads now that I think could be successful, but only if we make the effort to make it work. After all that, I realise we are now in the 2nd or 3rd carnation of the Trust and that another question that can be asked is 'What will make another attempt work where others have failed?'. A fair question imo, but one that can only be answered if people are prepared to see past certain histrionic problems and focus on a future where ALL Jags fans try to work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 I realise we are now in the 2nd or 3rd carnation of the Trust Oops sorry I seem to have condensed your post to just the one line. The rest appears to have evaporated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeless Unbeliever Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 You're milking that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 (edited) Dairy me... can no thread avoid descending into puns these days? Edited August 13, 2010 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Argus Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 I'm not a member and wouldn't be partly because, given the tone displayed by some individuals who I think are supporters association officals. It's not welcoming and if anything seems somewhat cold towards the ordinary supporter. I'd be interested to know what the membership figures are. I can't believe it is even representative of 10% of an average crowd, in which case i think the shares that are held should be given back to the Board for them to decide what to do with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 Dairy me... can no thread avoid descending into puns these days? Soor puss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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