ian_mac Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Colin, so far all you've done is post a very long list of heavily weighted questions. I would love to hear what your solutions are to these supposed problems? So far your suggestions don't seem to gathering much support... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
distel Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 North stand for away fans. J.H. stand and a small standing terrace at the bing end for the Singing section. For bigger away supports use either the main stand or the north section of J.H. stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) I've never sat in the north stand and don't know any of the people there but: Viewing it from the JHS not only do I think the colourful flags and banners are fantastic but they help add atmosphere. The singing and cheering from there has imo helped bring back some more atmosphere to the ground, even more importantly Archie and the players have acknowledged the importance of the North stand. I think while never going to use it myself a key positive decision by the club in the last 5 years has been the allocation. Of the north stand to home supporters and the singing sections Yes on Sunday I was disappointed at the attendance in the north stand but I was equally disappointed with the low attendance in the Main stand there were far more empty seats and rows than I expected there as well. As for questioning that the north stand is not always 50 per cent full, with the exception of Sunday I think we are lucky if the JHS is even 50 per cent full once a season Edited August 10, 2015 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 There absolutely has to be atmosphere at the game. And the NS provides that. What did we have before? Away fans in the NS singing and shouting at the kids zone which was inexplicably put in to the end of the JHS, with the Shed away along at the far end. No interaction between both sets of fans, no banter, nothing. So Jags fans in the NS has been a success in my opinion. It seems straightforward to me. Main stand for the away fans. Simple. And for clubs who have a large fan base that suggests they may bring more than the MS can hold, just limit them to the number that the MS can hold. No way should we ever chase a pound at the expense of giving up home advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted August 11, 2015 Members Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I was equally disappointed with the low attendance in the Main stand there were far more empty seats and rows than I expected there as well. What end of the Main Stand were you at TL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 The main stand doesn't need renovation; it needs replacing. The JH stand is one of the best of its type in Scotland (though even the JH could use some renovation in terms of facilities); we should be proud of it. The north stand is a decent Lego-type 2,000 seater. The bing detracts from the match day experience for just about everybody who goes to Firhill for a match. The club would do well to build an equivalent to the north stand there, and condemn the main stand until such times as it can be replaced with a more suitable (preferably multi-purpose) structure than would also include a stand or standing area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted August 11, 2015 Members Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 If we have a rethink, will you come to the next home game against Celtic Colin? On a more serious note, instead of bitterly arguing with one another, why don't we try something a wee bit different and agree with one another that we need to try and do something to help lift the team next time we play 'them'. Without a doubt the best atmosphere we've had at Firhill in recent years was the Morton game. The NS that night was pretty full and no doubt helped picking the players up following what must have been a draining previous weekend. I'd propose that we encourage as many Jags fans as possible to fill the North Stand and ask those in the Main Stand to congregate at one end only. (And I stress, ASK, not tell). Get the PA system working in the Stand and use it to help build an atmosphere ready to roar our players out onto the pitch. Totally go for it and pump depressing music into the JHS stand where the Celtic fans are as well! That's the only rethink we need. A change of attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) We seem to be mixing up what goes on in the NS with the actual stand itself. I'm curious why the 19-21 age group is deemed crucial (is that club policy?) . I would have thought they are more likely to attend almost every game. Flight risk is surely got to be the category of fans who are going through major life changes? Getting married, buying a house, having kids? Another key area of growth in football, are women. As far as I can see, no,work has been done there at all. At the very least we should renewing the survey that was done and publishing not only the results but the fan demographic. A survey of fans who no,longer attend would also be pretty useful. If the NS were costing us 20k a season( I'm sure it's not) then maybe that money could be put to better/different use? I'd just like to understand what the costs are. Others have said on other threads they'd like the attendance broken down by stand/STH/PATG . All of these things would be useful to have in the public domain? I thought transparency was what we were after? Just because something has worked, doesn't mean to say it will work in future and it certainly shouldn't be beyond discussion. Is there a threshold that means we start to lose money opening the NS on a Saturday if the attendance dips below it? I assume guys like Ian will have a handle on costs etc.?( I know I don't) Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) We seem to be mixing up what goes on in the NS with the actual stand itself. I'm curious why the 19-21 age group is deemed crucial (is that club policy?) . I would have thought they are more likely to attend almost every game.Flight risk is surely got to be the category of fans who are going through major life changes? Getting married, buying a house, having kids? Another key area of growth in football, are women. As far as I can see, no,work has been done there at all. At the very least we should renewing the survey that was done and publishing not only the results but the fan demographic. A survey of fans who no,longer attend would also be pretty useful. If the NS were costing us 20k a season( I'm sure it's not) then maybe that money could be put to better/different use? I'd just like to understand what the costs are. Others have said on other threads they'd like the attendance broken down by stand/STH/PATG . All of these things would be useful to have in the public domain? I thought transparency was what we were after? Just because something has worked, doesn't mean to say it will work in future and it certainly shouldn't be beyond discussion. Is there a threshold that means we start to lose money opening the NS on a Saturday if the attendance dips below it? I assume guys like Ian will have a handle on costs etc.?( I know I don't) Clearly, it's for the reason you've just said. If they're more likely to be able to attend every game, then obviously they're crucial to club policy. Edited August 11, 2015 by oneteaminglasgow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) So it is club policy? How many are there? Do we have a split between the JHS and the NS? Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 So it is club policy? How many are there? Do we have a split between the JHS and the NS? I don't know. I'm just saying it's likely that the next generation factor highly in the boards thinking. Because if they didn't it would make no business sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I wasn't even aware that we had a problem. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Can I ask where you've gotten the figure of 20k from please Colin? It seems that you have just plucked it out of thin air to try and aid your argument. I'm curious to why you've done this? I would agree we need to attract more women to the games, but can you tell me how that relates to re-thinking the layout of the stadium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I Additionally I am really keen to understand how the main stand could potentially be developed to suit everyone. Similar to the scheme that paid for the JH stand My gang of pals? That's pretty disrespectful to loads of Thistle fans who contributed a lot of money over a two year period to help fund the JH stand. Edited to add: I'm not sure where I called for the North stand to be disbanded? The scheme to pay for the JH helped to bankrupt the club. It wasn't extra money. Basically the funds from c1000 season tickets/ patg punters was diverted for 2 years to pay for the construction of the stand. I personally think the current arrangements are the best anyone has come up with. It would be nice to have a shiny new main stand and south stand and replace the the back 1500 seats of the JH with hospitality. But the money for even a single part of that is not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 North stand for away fans. J.H. stand and a small standing terrace at the bing end for the Singing section. For bigger away supports use either the main stand or the north section of J.H. stand. If as seems the problem (if indeed there is a problem) of numbers in the North Stand I can't see the singing section being too enthralled with standing in some low elevation area at the other end of the ground. At least where they are they have a decent enough view from the elevation aspect at least. If ever there's a development at the Bing end it might be better used as a combination of family stand and, because of its geography, an area for disabled and elderly/less abled supporter. I'd expect pricing to reflect the relatively poorer view than the JHS. If possible a further point of entry thru the Main Stand from the Aitken Suite would be welcome especially for the less abled. In tandem I'd also expect the Aitken Suite to be geared towards both family and less abled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I made it up Ian, it was an example. How much does it cost per game? £500 ? A grand? Two grand? Two grand would be 40k a season? That would be a lot to be paying to accommodate a couple of hundred fans... Higher? Lower? #bruciebonus Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco77 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Was slow to attend a game in the NS but when I can make the game I go to the NS.. I'm not a big singer but the atmosphere in the NS is more a kin to an away game. Singing, banter and laughs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 OK, I'm going to bite, LSR, Ian has asked you to clarify what exactly your concern here is. What you think the problem is and what you suggest is the solution to resolve it. You have refused to provide a response. You don't attend Celtic games, you don't use the north stand, The seating arrangement doesn't inconvenience you. The vast majority of JHS support the use of the NS as a singing section. The vast majority of JHS users "took the hit" and have accepted moving across to the MS for the Celtic game. There has been no public outcry after Sunday to have the seating changed. The club have apologised and will resolve any minor issues experienced on Sunday which has been met positively. Since his request, you have continued to just throw questions out into the ether. Can I ask again, for clarity, what do you perceive to be the problem here that needs addressing, and what do you believe is the solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I made it up Ian, it was an example. How much does it cost per game? £500 ? A grand? Two grand? Two grand would be 40k a season? That would be a lot to be paying to accommodate a couple of hundred fans... i noticed you made a mention of "200-300" yesterday in another post of yours ..... and no one challenged you on it ..... and now again today, we have this "couple of hundred" ..... can i ask, where you are obtaining this figure from? i presume you have taken photographs of each home game of the ns, and counted the occupants individually, or have been given sight of official ptfc figures for each home game for the ns. or, as with plenty other instances, are you just making up incorrect random numbers, weighted negatively to suit your perverse argument and agenda of causing unnecessary and unwanted division between the ptfc support, while you bash away on your keyboard singing "look at me, look at me". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 You started the conversation Colin - why don't you try and find out the answers to the barrel load of questions you seem to have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 It's almost as if the OP started this thread without knowing anything about what he was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I don't think it's where people watch the game from (I was at home in front of my telly) it's about how many people watch the game (and pay to do so). Surely the problem here is not about the various stands but about the opposition. If our home crowd drops when we play Celtic then answer is not to play Celtic (shoorley)? Posters on this thread have described crowd pullers as being Ayr United and Gretna. SPFL - Get your house in order and remove the financial uncertainty and imbalance that currently masquerades as a competition. L.S.R. I think you picked the wrong game if you do have a point to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) It's not just about revenue. It's about costs. How much does it cost to open the north stand for each match. If the costs significantly outweighs the number of people using the facility, then maybe that money could be better spent. Bear in mind this is extra cost incurred( potentially) over having everyone in one stand. If we are struggling to increase revenue( or indeed we are losing revenue year on year), then i think it's inevitable attention will turn to cost saving at some point. Everyone says the NS is a great idea. My question is at what cost? At 10k a season it probably is good value. At 30k it's not imo That's my concern. What's more concerning is that no-one seems to know? So again, do we have any idea? Anyone? Total stewarding and catering costs for whole ground might be a good starting point? Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Sorry, LSR, I'm going to let you come back because I can't believe all the posts you have made on this thread, all the lists of endless questions can be boiled down to: If it costs £30k a season it's not good value? If it costs £1700 a game to open the NS, it's not good value? Why are you concerned that no one seems to know these unpublished figures? £1700 costs per game to open the NS is a concern! You crack me up! ETA... I'm still not actually sure what your point is, what you perceive to be the problem, and how you propose to resolve it. Edited August 11, 2015 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 I have had a season ticket for the JHS since it first opened but I would miss the NS if it was not used by our own supporters. It's not just the cost that needs to considered here, the atmosphere in the stadium has been greatly improved since the NS was given over to our 'vocal support'. It is for me now an essential and noisy and colourful part of the match day experience. I think the players and management appreciate it too. I think we would lose some of our support if we closed it to our own supporters so you would need to factor in a probable loss of revenue against any saving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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