Jaggernaut Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 no likes available, but the above three posts from westendjag, bowenboys and that old bissum barnett, all correct in their entirety, so you all win a ...green swan colliding with a door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 3, 2015 Report Share Posted November 3, 2015 Fox began the move as well. It was actually Gallacher but it does highlight the goalie's importance in build up play. The keeper could just have easily have elected to punt the ball up to whoever was up top at the time. Something that happens too often when we're not playing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 As long as one or, if you read this in nine months time, two teams have vastly more resources than anybody else, the entire league is pointless from day 1. So, by that argument, the Spanish League is pointless ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Sort of related: Ian McCall's has got Ayr United firing on all cylinders these days; one of the best-performing teams in Britain at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 So, by that argument, the Spanish League is pointless ? Celtic and Rangers have won the league for the last 30 years. Atletico Madrid won La Liga two years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Celtic and Rangers have won the league for the last 30 years. Atletico Madrid won La Liga two years ago. I think that you have dis proven your own argument Atletico (also Deportivo La Coruna and Valencia) have managed to win the league despite a massive difference in the relative spending power v Spain's big 2. Clearly finance helps, but it should not be a barrier to success if you get other parts of the set-up right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think that you have dis proven your own argument Atletico (also Deportivo La Coruna and Valencia) have managed to win the league despite a massive difference in the relative spending power v Spain's big 2. Clearly finance helps, but it should not be a barrier to success if you get other parts of the set-up right. Don't think so. Merely pointing out that in a discussion about Scottish football, La Liga is not a great comparison. What 'other parts of the set-up' are not dependant on finance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think that a couple of good points have been made re league structure, but I would also add that the strength of the second tier is also an important consideration IMO. If we had 18 teams in the top flight that would be almost all of the club's large enough to sustain full time football in one division. The reason that countries like Germany, England and Spain can have larger top flights is because they have enough clubs of roughly similar size that a team promoted will be of roughly similar size to most of the teams in the division above, and would be able to sustain playing at that level. All across Europe, however, smaller countries tend to have smaller league sizes. I think this is one of the reasons - that there simply shouldn't be a huge gulf between the leagues. I also think the current system provides a decent amount of excitement for as many clubs as it can. Out with the eventual winners, which I'm sure we can all agree doesn't concern us, almost everyone is left with something to fight for for most of the season. The playoff place is a great addition in this regard. I'm not saying that the current system is perfect, far from it, I'm merely highlighting that I think that there are problems with a larger league that must be considered. In any case, I think most of Scottish football's problems can be traced back to attendances and the stranglehold of money in just 2 clubs - and I'm not sure simply changing the league set up will change that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 I think that a couple of good points have been made re league structure, but I would also add that the strength of the second tier is also an important consideration IMO. If we had 18 teams in the top flight that would be almost all of the club's large enough to sustain full time football in one division. The reason that countries like Germany, England and Spain can have larger top flights is because they have enough clubs of roughly similar size that a team promoted will be of roughly similar size to most of the teams in the division above, and would be able to sustain playing at that level. All across Europe, however, smaller countries tend to have smaller league sizes. I think this is one of the reasons - that there simply shouldn't be a huge gulf between the leagues. I also think the current system provides a decent amount of excitement for as many clubs as it can. Out with the eventual winners, which I'm sure we can all agree doesn't concern us, almost everyone is left with something to fight for for most of the season. The playoff place is a great addition in this regard. I'm not saying that the current system is perfect, far from it, I'm merely highlighting that I think that there are problems with a larger league that must be considered. In any case, I think most of Scottish football's problems can be traced back to attendances and the stranglehold of money in just 2 clubs - and I'm not sure simply changing the league set up will change that. Norway has a 16 team top league, and their 5th best team have beaten our best team twice this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Norway has a 16 team top league, and their 5th best team have beaten our best team twice this season Norway being a good example having a roughly similar population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Norway being a good example having a roughly similar population. Also summer football seems to help the clubs progress in Europe, as they are match fit when it kicks off. They have a top league of 16 (Tippaleague) and 16 team 1st division (obos league) and a 4 group 56 team regionalised 2nd division where reserve teams are allowed to compete( they can't be promoted but can be relegated) then leagues under the 2nd, so effectively the pyramid system starts at 2nd division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 When the leagues were restructured to 10/10/10/10 in the 90s, it was supposed to help Scottish football teams improve by ensuring only the very best teams were in the league. 'Scottish football teams' in this context means, of course, 'Celtic and Rangers'. That's gone well then. They created a situation where half of the teams in the leagues spend the whole season looking over their shoulder in fear of relegation. Hardly a recipe for stability and growth. A twenty year experiment that has clearly failed. There are many teams like us who would benefit from a period of stability. It is difficult to attract players when there is so much uncertainty. We have recently lost players to teams around us. Killie and Ross Co. possibly being thought to have a better chance of staying up. As we know, it is hard to get players to commit to more than one season. Is this related also? I'm sure we are not the only team who start the season with one eye on relegation as a business plan. Larger leagues would alleviate the situation and allow smaller teams to, slowly, improve. This is a very unhealth situation. Twenty years have been wasted. Scottish football, as a 'product', has not improved. Let's have some forward planning and radical thinking from our administrators. Yes, I know. Silly idea. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 (edited) it is inarguably shameful, that after all these years that we are still stuck with too many wee leagues, that stifle progress on and off the park for every club in the professional leagues (and those below). the piece meal scraps of finally allowing one club from outside the fortytwo to potentially get promotion after a four game playoff, and the playoff spot for the top league are too little and continually paper over the cracks and distract the issues. until we get sixteen or eighteen team leagues (which could have two up two down and third bottom v third top playoff), with real promotion and relegation to regional leagues, and minileague sections at start of league cup, and real proactive and independent governance, who don't talk down and sell our sport short, our clubs and national side will continue to go backwards in quality and success. but as long as incompetents and self serving puppets of the like of doncaster, regan, ogilvie are too cosy and have their arses licked and strings pulled by liewell and desmond, and whoever takes the turn of holding the keys to the new diddy bigot club in govan, nothing will change for the better in scottish football. Edited November 8, 2015 by yoda-jag 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 2 leagues of 16 3 up 3 down Summer football Regionalised pyramids below Enhanced league cup with groups All league games at 3pm Black out the EPL when any Scottish game is being played Only cup finals and semi finals live on the TV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Summer football can **** off for a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Summer football can **** off for a start. Why? Better weather Better pitches Less costly (less USH or floodlights) Better temperature for the fans Folk take holidays all year round now so would hardly impact attendances, as with Irish league they may even go up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Why? Better weather Better pitches Less costly (less USH or floodlights) Better temperature for the fans Folk take holidays all year round now so would hardly impact attendances, as with Irish league they may even go up I'll dig it up later, but there's a guy on pie & bovril who shows that order for it to work in a Scottish format, you'd need to play January through December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Why? Better weather Better pitches Less costly (less USH or floodlights) Better temperature for the fans Folk take holidays all year round now so would hardly impact attendances, as with Irish league they may even go up Have asked this before but when does the pitch get time to recover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Just for the record, my own preference would be 12-12-12 then regionalisation (assuming you could get the junior teams involved) starting with a simple North-South split (probably somewhere around the Tay) and potentially incorporating a short winter break in December/January. 2 up, 2 down in all divisions, maybe a playoff system of some kind as well. Cups would stay largely the same except having the League Cip final some time around November/October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Just for the record, my own preference would be 12-12-12 then regionalisation (assuming you could get the junior teams involved) starting with a simple North-South split (probably somewhere around the Tay) and potentially incorporating a short winter break in December/January. 2 up, 2 down in all divisions, maybe a playoff system of some kind as well. Cups would stay largely the same except having the League Cip final some time around November/October. Do you actually like watching the same teams over and over again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Have asked this before but when does the pitch get time to recover? The pitches over here look great when season starts in April, the ground is usually warm enough for grass to grow from February through November (I know I had to cut the grass again yesterday ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 Do you actually like watching the same teams over and over again? This, 2010-2011 we played Falkirk 7 times and Stirling Albion 5 times mind numbing stuff, and we came 5th. two of 16 (min) and regional pyramid system after, its not rocket science but the top league wont go for it because they will lose out on money 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 The pitches over here look great when season starts in April, the ground is usually warm enough for grass to grow from February through November (I know I had to cut the grass again yesterday ������ ) don't know the science of it but surely it would depend on the type of seed and does Norway get the constant rain that we get? my grass needs cut as well but it not possible as the ground is sodden and i would rip it to bits which is what i think would happen here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 The pitch doesn't recover in December and January in Scotland and it's being played on once or twice a week merely adding to the damage. Scottish football needs to try something completely different so let's try summer football for say 5 seasons with 2 big leagues and see if we improve football wise and crowd wise, the current system will kill the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted November 8, 2015 Report Share Posted November 8, 2015 I don't like the idea of summer football either. Probably stuck in my ways. I do want major change though, so why not try it. Norge is right, something has to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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