Jordanhill Jag Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 6 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Your points are valid , I’ve no idea what’s going on , maybe the Three Black Cats are looking at it from a financial perspective, possibly went over budget ? at the time it was announced maybe they thought we would be a Premier League Club with a bit more financial clout and that’s maybe a pertinent reason as well . The reality is just now , getting relegated would be an absolute disaster for our Club and the Turnover would once again drop , the figures would roughly translate going from £4 million to £1.5 million in 2 years , it would be hard for any business to sustain any meaningful infrastructure in these circumstances . Hopefully The Trust can get within in the inner sanctum of what’s going on at our football club but I think Jaquie Lowe might need to do spin some more tales re the Training Ground . Andrew I attempted to raise the issue of rental affordability at the AGM - I was told I was to Trust the Chairman and to the effect it would be fine ( also three black cats would decide on the rent ) - The CEO also made a statement to the Trust in previous meetings -that the Training Ground is going ahead -no matter what Division we are in - now factoring in your valid point ref Turnover ( FYI if we go down again Turnover will be nearer £1.2MN in my estimate ) its going to be difficult on a Division 2 or even Division 1 budget- without the Parachute /EUFA monies- that I can see - so in short - if its a Planning Rejection -then that will be available to the Public either online or via a FOI Request - if its due to the fact its budget related then- thats a Club issue -based on the categorical statements made that this was going ahead and neither the League nor Rental affordability is an issue If its Budget over - run - again statements should not have been made without due diligence carried out ref affordability But I may be worrying unnecessarily and everything is fine - in hand and its all been covered 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 13 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Your points are valid , I’ve no idea what’s going on , maybe the Three Black Cats are looking at it from a financial perspective, possibly went over budget ? at the time it was announced maybe they thought we would be a Premier League Club with a bit more financial clout and that’s maybe a pertinent reason as well . The reality is just now , getting relegated would be an absolute disaster for our Club and the Turnover would once again drop , the figures would roughly translate going from £4 million to £1.5 million in 2 years , it would be hard for any business to sustain any meaningful infrastructure in these circumstances . Hopefully The Trust can get within in the inner sanctum of what’s going on at our football club but I think Jaquie Lowe might need to do spin some more tales re the Training Ground . I think your spinning a few tales here.... Three black cats indicated they hoped to submit the formal planning application this month - if that happened it could be ready by June .....there is a delay in submitting the planning application due to issues on the Council side .....there is no change to the proposal or commitment to the project it has no financial implications for the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think your spinning a few tales here.... Three black cats indicated they hoped to submit the formal planning application this month - if that happened it could be ready by June .....there is a delay in submitting the planning application due to issues on the Council side .....there is no change to the proposal or commitment to the project it has no financial implications for the club. Are you familiar with any of the "black cats"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think your spinning a few tales here.... Three black cats indicated they hoped to submit the formal planning application this month - if that happened it could be ready by June .....there is a delay in submitting the planning application due to issues on the Council side .....there is no change to the proposal or commitment to the project it has no financial implications for the club. Ok - well Im sure full planning wil be sought in no time - just a bit surprising that these issues emerged so late on - when we were being told everything was on plan before Xmas There are financial implications for the Club in that we will have to pay a Commercial Rate for the size of the venue - benchmarked against other similiar places - HMRC wont allow Black Cats to trade at a loss on purpose But Im assuming that was all factored in Everythings fine - nothing to see here - move along .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think your spinning a few tales here.... Three black cats indicated they hoped to submit the formal planning application this month - if that happened it could be ready by June .....there is a delay in submitting the planning application due to issues on the Council side .....there is no change to the proposal or commitment to the project it has no financial implications for the club. How can the 3 black cats or any company failing to submit a planning application be due to the council? You submit it, the council assess it, they either accept as is, accept with conditions, ask for more info to allow a decision, or reject it. There is no planning application submitted as of yet with the exception of the change of usage, which was cleared on 21st September a whole 4 months ago. its in black and white on the councils own site, none of the fans are spinning anything here nor would wish too, we want the club to succeed, to be secure and successful. This isn’t a job or a temporary position for us, it’s a life (sentence) commitment as a fan, we were fans long before any of the current board had ever been to Firhill and will be after they’ve gone. All we ask is transparency and for them to stop the “spin” we’ve had the nonsense about promotion up to a month ago, the nonsense about Caldwell old board letting him down, nonsense about Caldwell’s interview and quality of candidates, nonsense about Erskine being part of the plan, nonsense about large budget for this current window. You wonder why we’re sceptical. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 20 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Are you familiar with any of the "black cats"? There is only one Director and Shareholder - Colin Weir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 This thread confirms my views on the weakness of fan ownership. Whataboutery x100. We have a very rich fan who cleared our debt with no benefit or power to him. He's now building a training ground free to us. We'll rent it from him. No liability for the club. It's a good deal. A lot of clubs would be jealous of this set up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: This thread confirms my views on the weakness of fan ownership. Whataboutery x100. We have a very rich fan who cleared our debt with no benefit or power to him. He's now building a training ground free to us. We'll rent it from him. No liability for the club. It's a good deal. A lot of clubs would be jealous of this set up. The shareholders of the club are probably fans or have historical ties and loyalties to the club. I can't honestly see anyone getting involved in the ownership of Thistle with the realistic aim to make money out of it* *Unless they're asset strippers looking to sell off Firhill for development. Edited January 24, 2019 by AndyMac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 29 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: There is only one Director and Shareholder - Colin Weir Thanks Jordanhill Jag. I was wondering if Javeajag was on talking terms with Colin Weir or someone close to the deal, as he seems pretty confident that it will be delivered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: This thread confirms my views on the weakness of fan ownership. Whataboutery x100. We have a very rich fan who cleared our debt with no benefit or power to him. He's now building a training ground free to us. We'll rent it from him. No liability for the club. It's a good deal. A lot of clubs would be jealous of this set up. It is a good deal but there is still a liability to the club in the form of a rent whether we can afford it or not depending on what league we play in and what our budgeted turnover is , it’s going to be a huge struggle if we get relegated this year in terms of making ends meet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 2 hours ago, javeajag said: I think your spinning a few tales here.... Three black cats indicated they hoped to submit the formal planning application this month - if that happened it could be ready by June .....there is a delay in submitting the planning application due to issues on the Council side .....there is no change to the proposal or commitment to the project it has no financial implications for the club. I said in my post I had no idea what was going on , what I would say if it was going to happen at the said timescale and taken into account the consultation that has happened, then ground preparation etc would have already started , the planning application would have been submitted and when the final application has come through then it’s all systems go . From my experience it takes 2/3 months for a planning application to be approved , there is no chance it’ll be ready by June . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 1 hour ago, AndyMac said: The shareholders of the club are probably fans or have historical ties and loyalties to the club. I can't honestly see anyone getting involved in the ownership of Thistle with the realistic aim to make money out of it* *Unless they're asset strippers looking to sell off Firhill for development. Of course they’ll make money eventually as Partick Thistle are paying a rent/lease indefinitely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 24, 2019 Report Share Posted January 24, 2019 39 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Of course they’ll make money eventually as Partick Thistle are paying a rent/lease indefinitely Yes at a Commercial Rent Rate which is highly questionable if we can 2 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: This thread confirms my views on the weakness of fan ownership. Whataboutery x100. We have a very rich fan who cleared our debt with no benefit or power to him. He's now building a training ground free to us. We'll rent it from him. No liability for the club. It's a good deal. A lot of clubs would be jealous of this set up. First when its built then great - but various rumours are circulating as to if thats going to happen Second - questions have been asked on affordablity of the rent the questions being asked are all pefectly valid and sensible from the fans simply not accepting the Club PR at face value I would say it demonstrates that our fans can make valued judgements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Yes at a Commercial Rent Rate which is highly questionable if we can First when its built then great - but various rumours are circulating as to if thats going to happen Second - questions have been asked on affordablity of the rent the questions being asked are all pefectly valid and sensible from the fans simply not accepting the Club PR at face value I would say it demonstrates that our fans can make valued judgements Another point not mentioned is the clubs liability for the site, how long would we be tied in for and could we (if needed) break the lease? Say it’s built and in 3 years a new board can find better cheaper facilities, what is our leave period? What will it cost? It’s not unheard of in large commercial leases to have a 5, 10 or even 15 year notice period, yes you can leave in that period but you need to pay out the remainder of the lease period, sometimes with large penalties if you vacate the premises prior to that notice period being put. Would the maintenance come under the club or the landlord? Relaying 2 pitches instead of 1 a season has a cost, 5G parks have a recommended life of 6 years, that is a huge cost (X3) to maintain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Another point not mentioned is the clubs liability for the site, how long would we be tied in for and could we (if needed) break the lease? Say it’s built and in 3 years a new board can find better cheaper facilities, what is our leave period? What will it cost? It’s not unheard of in large commercial leases to have a 5, 10 or even 15 year notice period, yes you can leave in that period but you need to pay out the remainder of the lease period, sometimes with large penalties if you vacate the premises prior to that notice period being put. Would the maintenance come under the club or the landlord? Relaying 2 pitches instead of 1 a season has a cost, 5G parks have a recommended life of 6 years, that is a huge cost (X3) to maintain Think it’s unlikely that the landlord would pick up the tab for the maintenance of the Training Ground unless it was factored into the Rent/Lease which would obviously be at a higher rate, I also don’t think it would be affordable if we go down a division , still think it would have better if it eventually became an asset of the Club rather than pay a rent for an indefinite period of time , I’ve no idea why that couldn’t/shouldn’t happen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: Another point not mentioned is the clubs liability for the site, how long would we be tied in for and could we (if needed) break the lease? Say it’s built and in 3 years a new board can find better cheaper facilities, what is our leave period? What will it cost? It’s not unheard of in large commercial leases to have a 5, 10 or even 15 year notice period, yes you can leave in that period but you need to pay out the remainder of the lease period, sometimes with large penalties if you vacate the premises prior to that notice period being put. Would the maintenance come under the club or the landlord? Relaying 2 pitches instead of 1 a season has a cost, 5G parks have a recommended life of 6 years, that is a huge cost (X3) to maintain The first thing I would say is that this isn’t a normal commercial lease. Someone said earlier on that the lease would need to be at the market rate. If the board could get something cheaper, I am pretty sure that the Weirs would reduce the rent accordingly. However, this presupposes that everything remains hunky dory between Thistle and the Weirs. However, your points do highlight the need for proper contracts to be in place to suit both party’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Ok - well Im sure full planning wil be sought in no time - just a bit surprising that these issues emerged so late on - when we were being told everything was on plan before Xmas There are financial implications for the Club in that we will have to pay a Commercial Rate for the size of the venue - benchmarked against other similiar places - HMRC wont allow Black Cats to trade at a loss on purpose But Im assuming that was all factored in Everythings fine - nothing to see here - move along .... Jesus conspiracy theorists everywhere .....and not a little bitterness.... no it was stated they hoped the submit planning in January and if that happened it should be ready in June ....you were there and heard it but choose to misrepresent it define comerrcial rate ....what we pay now yes it has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Norgethistle said: How can the 3 black cats or any company failing to submit a planning application be due to the council? You submit it, the council assess it, they either accept as is, accept with conditions, ask for more info to allow a decision, or reject it. There is no planning application submitted as of yet with the exception of the change of usage, which was cleared on 21st September a whole 4 months ago. its in black and white on the councils own site, none of the fans are spinning anything here nor would wish too, we want the club to succeed, to be secure and successful. This isn’t a job or a temporary position for us, it’s a life (sentence) commitment as a fan, we were fans long before any of the current board had ever been to Firhill and will be after they’ve gone. All we ask is transparency and for them to stop the “spin” we’ve had the nonsense about promotion up to a month ago, the nonsense about Caldwell old board letting him down, nonsense about Caldwell’s interview and quality of candidates, nonsense about Erskine being part of the plan, nonsense about large budget for this current window. You wonder why we’re sceptical. Jesus ....nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, AndyMac said: Thanks Jordanhill Jag. I was wondering if Javeajag was on talking terms with Colin Weir or someone close to the deal, as he seems pretty confident that it will be delivered. Nope no connection whatsoever ever..... just bemused by the negativity, speculation and looking for the catch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 9 hours ago, jlsarmy said: It is a good deal but there is still a liability to the club in the form of a rent whether we can afford it or not depending on what league we play in and what our budgeted turnover is , it’s going to be a huge struggle if we get relegated this year in terms of making ends meet . We enter into a rental agreement ....,when we know that get negative but is there any evidence Colin weir has ever done anything that hasn’t helped the club ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Yes at a Commercial Rent Rate which is highly questionable if we can First when its built then great - but various rumours are circulating as to if thats going to happen Second - questions have been asked on affordablity of the rent the questions being asked are all pefectly valid and sensible from the fans simply not accepting the Club PR at face value I would say it demonstrates that our fans can make valued judgements No your saying it’s questionable and you don’t even know what it is yes your circulating rumours even though this week the chairman stated it was going ahead so she is clearly lying it’s just you stirring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: Another point not mentioned is the clubs liability for the site, how long would we be tied in for and could we (if needed) break the lease? Say it’s built and in 3 years a new board can find better cheaper facilities, what is our leave period? What will it cost? It’s not unheard of in large commercial leases to have a 5, 10 or even 15 year notice period, yes you can leave in that period but you need to pay out the remainder of the lease period, sometimes with large penalties if you vacate the premises prior to that notice period being put. Would the maintenance come under the club or the landlord? Relaying 2 pitches instead of 1 a season has a cost, 5G parks have a recommended life of 6 years, that is a huge cost (X3) to maintain Incredulous.....it’s being built for us the club worked on the design.....I’m being positive in believing that Colin weir who is spending £4m at least in this isn’t trying to shaft the club....but what about us grandson in 2078 I hear you ask .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, javeajag said: No your saying it’s questionable and you don’t even know what it is yes your circulating rumours even though this week the chairman stated it was going ahead so she is clearly lying it’s just you stirring Think the chairwoman also said we were going for promotion 3 weeks ago . Just Saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, Norgethistle said: How can the 3 black cats or any company failing to submit a planning application be due to the council? You submit it, the council assess it, they either accept as is, accept with conditions, ask for more info to allow a decision, or reject it. There is no planning application submitted as of yet with the exception of the change of usage, which was cleared on 21st September a whole 4 months ago. its in black and white on the councils own site, none of the fans are spinning anything here nor would wish too, we want the club to succeed, to be secure and successful. This isn’t a job or a temporary position for us, it’s a life (sentence) commitment as a fan, we were fans long before any of the current board had ever been to Firhill and will be after they’ve gone. All we ask is transparency and for them to stop the “spin” we’ve had the nonsense about promotion up to a month ago, the nonsense about Caldwell old board letting him down, nonsense about Caldwell’s interview and quality of candidates, nonsense about Erskine being part of the plan, nonsense about large budget for this current window. You wonder why we’re sceptical. Ran out of likes. This is just more evidence of an apparent autocratic board at our club. This provides yet more evidence of a club in absolute chaos. Where will it end? Div 1 i fear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, javeajag said: Incredulous.....it’s being built for us the club worked on the design.....I’m being positive in believing that Colin weir who is spending £4m at least in this isn’t trying to shaft the club....but what about us grandson in 2078 I hear you ask .... I also don't believe colin weir is being anything other than well meaning and loves his club. I do however strongly suspect he has positioned the wrong people in the wrong places. Ref the planning process, just two points. ED is notoriously (among public sector partners) slow in respect of pretty much every process, from adult and child protection to education services and to planning. As has been previously posted re the status of the application, it is entirely possible the council have agreed the initial process but have highlighted certain issues to be overcome before actual building warrants will be issued so the applicants will address that before they submit the building application as the initial authorisation runs until 2023. Of course they might also be waiting to see if we get relegated AGAIN!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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