B.C.G. JAG Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 "Class bigotry" from the board or yourself? The whole working and middle class classification is redundant. A teacher and someone who works in and office is middle class but they could be making a lot less money than a person with their own plumbing or taxi business. Not from me. David Beattie says he is keen for a Representative of the fans. But he doesn't want the legally selected Rep, he wants a different one. And my question is, if there was another election and Morag was, without any doubt, elected as our Rep, would he continue to veto her? I suspect so. And if so, we have a problem. My problem with all this is that it sounds like David Beattie wants the Rep to work for him on the Board. I want the Rep to work for me and the rest of the fans. My point about class is that there is a suggestion from the BOD that they want the Rep to come from their circle, the millionaire business community. The suggestion is that someone from our circle is not up to the job. That's the whiff I'm talking about. However, when it comes to representing me, I want that person to actually know what season ticket does to a family income or how it feels to ask a friend to come to Firhill only to watch them baulk at the £17 price tag. I don't want them sat in Hospitality every week, I want them in the Aiken Suite and seeing how utterly rubbish it is. I want them able to represent me, not advise on business tax, they can find another fan to do that. The Rep should be Representative first and foremost - they are the ones saying our Rep is not good enough. Not good enough for them or not good enough for us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatnallyjag Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I would agree with the above statement to a degree, however I feel that it is not necessary for a business minded person to hold this position. It does however need to be someone who can adequately represent the support,whilst at the same time be able to understand and adequately function within a board room environment. Ideally they should also be good communicators in both verbal and written forms of communication. I feel sure that there must be a number of people who would meet such requirements within the current support. I think that this is a great post , the balance has to be found, the fans rep should be exactly that in representing the ordinary fans, but at the same time they have to be able to fully participate in board meetings and the business aspect of it to be a valid addition to the board and make the fans views count Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerryHell Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 The PTFC board are currently off reorganising the club, in the hope that it will emerge a more stable and viable business, and I think most of us support them in this. I believe that it will be year end before this process is complete and we hear anything more concrete from the club on this. It has been stated from the PTFC board that fan representation is desired, and part of their analysis is likely to be where this fan representation will come from. IMO, the Jags Trust should probably be content for the moment, just sitting in on board meetings, if that's what they've been invited to do, until the new boardroom starts to take shape. However, I also think that they too should be looking at their organisation (the Jags trust) and analyising if it is currently functioning in the best way it can, for the members, fans and the club as a whole. I don't understand enough about what has or hasn't been promised with regards to Board Reps, but I think that the way that Morag found herself in the postition of board rep is one of the reasons that there is hesitance from the board to extend a full invitation. Our (the fans) commitment to the Jags Trust (in numbers anyway) is being questioned, as is the make up of the JT board and how the positions within it are filled. I just want to make clear that I have nothing against any individual member of the trust board, and am not trying to start any kind of anti-JT board thread, I just think that sitting waiting for the PTFC board to enable change, without the JT board also analysing their organisation will see us in the same postion or worse come the revolution new year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 I also think that they too should be looking at their organisation (the Jags trust) and analyising if it is currently functioning in the best way it can, for the members, fans and the club as a whole. I don't understand enough about what has or hasn't been promised with regards to Board Reps, but I think that the way that Morag found herself in the postition of board rep is one of the reasons that there is hesitance from the board to extend a full invitation. Our (the fans) commitment to the Jags Trust (in numbers anyway) is being questioned, as is the make up of the JT board and how the positions within it are filled. I just want to make clear that I have nothing against any individual member of the trust board, and am not trying to start any kind of anti-JT board thread, I just think that sitting waiting for the PTFC board to enable change, without the JT board also analysing their organisation will see us in the same postion or worse come the revolution new year. Well put. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) Gordon Chisholm on George Knight... “He’s a nice guy and down to earth but they all got blinded by Calum Melville’s money.” Whoever the Jags Trust nominate to sit with the BOD will need many of the qualities described throughout this thread but most of all they will need the support of the trust, it's members and jags fans. Without that they will not have the mandate nor the confidence to stand up and say what they think and what they think the average fan would be saying if they were in the room at that time. They also have to have the freedom to report to the trust, as their representative, exactly what is being discussed and agreed about the future of the club that we all fund. It is a thankless task and one where the bearer is likely to feel as welcome as the very unwelcome thing in a spacesuit and again that is why this role can only be tasked to someone of immense character and fortitude - forget business acumen and an entrepreneurial spirit this role needs someone with a tough skin and an understanding that you can't please all of the people all of the time but you must represent their views as truthfully and honestly and without personal bias as is humanly possible. It's not a popularity contest for Mr/s Nice Guy. Edited October 20, 2010 by AlgarveJag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 (edited) A lot of the chat on this thread is about the qualities that we and the BOD want from a fans Rep. We seem to want them to be experienced in Boardroom etiquette, have the perspective of the ordinary fan, understand the finer details of the construction trade, bring a shrewd business acumen to the table and have the oratory skills of an after dinner speaker. We ask a lot. It's no wonder no-one comes forward. But does someone have to be all those people? David Beattie is clearly aware he can't be everything to everyone as he is looking to fill the skills gaps on the BOD with other people and not by himself. So why can we not have a Rep that can consult with his/her colleagues on the Trust, confer with other fans with other skills than they. The whole Propco thing brought forward some people with the skills we need experience in. Why can't the Rep be seen to be working in tandem with their colleagues and be using the valuable human resources we already have as well as tapping into some more? Don't the BOD want the full wealth of knowledge available to them? Are the BOD serious about Fan Representation? At the moment I'm not convinced. There are people on their very doorstep who have offered their professional expertise but the Club has so far resisted them. If they are serious about a new partnership with the Fans, then accept that we as a support can be just that - supportive. We can, through the Trust, bring credible support and advice for the business. But also accept that the Rep may need to consult with others before offering that advice, just as David Beattie wants to consult with others himself. Beattie's call for someone with a vast array of skills is asking for us to find someone with more skills than even he's willing to admit he's got. That's a bit much. A Rep, that is truly elected to represent us, the fans, is what we need, but we also need the overly zealous confidentiality of the BOD reappraised. If they want the free advice of the fanbase, then they will have to accept that the Rep may need to consult, just as the BOD does. That may mean more people with more skills being co-opted onto the Trust as and when required. To dismiss that wealth of expertise in the JHS so readily because of confidentiality is not just foolish but one of the reasons we're in the mess we find ourselves in now. Yes meetings and minutes can remain secret, but if you keep the question you want to ask a secret too, then you'll never get any answers. The BOD has been guilty up til now of acting like a secretive cabal, refusing any help from the outside. Their refusal to even let the Trust's Rep in at present hardly demonstrates any radical change. We know what we need from our Representative. And I think we're starting to get an idea of what we need from our BOD as well. Just how much of a partnership is this going to be? I ask, because at the moment we're going backwards. The BOD is apparently reinventing itself. We should be part of that process, but as we're clearly not, then we absolutely must see the BOD re-evaluating it's relationship with The Trust and extending a genuine hand of friendship a part of that review. The BOD needs to accept whoever we elect, they are our Rep and they work for us. But in return they will have a tap into a lot lot more. All it takes is a leap of faith... Edited to add. It feels like 'Fan Representation' is being manufactured behind closed doors at the moment. If the BOD are serious about bringing the fans in, then they can't be orchestrating it entirely themselves. That's just ridiculous. Edited October 20, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Beattie's call for someone with a vast array of skills is asking for us to find someone with more skills than even he's willing to admit he's got. That's a bit much. I'm sorry - I've read the statement half a dozen times and can't see anything to suggest this. There seems to be an element of transferring what folk have said on this and other threads into the Club's statement and then inferring things that just aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.C.G. JAG Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I'm sorry - I've read the statement half a dozen times and can't see anything to suggest this. There seems to be an element of transferring what folk have said on this and other threads into the Club's statement and then inferring things that just aren't there. You're right, it's an exaggeration but the question remains, what exactly are the BOD wanting from the Rep? I stand by the point that if they are looking to fill the skills gaps on the Board, then that is a separate issue from who we elect as our Rep. The Rep should not be seen as a way to plug those gaps. The Rep need only meet our requirements, not the BOD's. Yes, it would be helpful if they had an array of useful skills, but the Rep should also be able to consult with their colleagues as the other Directors would do. This is about the super-confidentiality of the Board being reappraised as part of their review process. In short - if the BOD have rejected Morag because they want someone with more skills, then that is the wrong approach. If they have rejected her because of a lack of democracy in her election, that's more understandable, but it is also a matter for the fans and not the BOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) You're right, it's an exaggeration but the question remains, what exactly are the BOD wanting from the Rep? I stand by the point that if they are looking to fill the skills gaps on the Board, then that is a separate issue from who we elect as our Rep. The Rep should not be seen as a way to plug those gaps. The Rep need only meet our requirements, not the BOD's. Yes, it would be helpful if they had an array of useful skills, but the Rep should also be able to consult with their colleagues as the other Directors would do. This is about the super-confidentiality of the Board being reappraised as part of their review process. In short - if the BOD have rejected Morag because they want someone with more skills, then that is the wrong approach. If they have rejected her because of a lack of democracy in her election, that's more understandable, but it is also a matter for the fans and not the BOD. This is wearing a bit thin for me. It seems entirely reasonable to me to expect that (a) a Director of the football club has the right balance of skills and attributes to carry out that function properly AND (b ) that the Director appointed through the Jags Trust carry a popular mandate. As in all walks of life that means there's plenty of room for 'conspiracy theories', but the reality is likely to be more mundane. Edited October 21, 2010 by Mr Scruff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vom Itorium Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 This is wearing a bit thin for me. It seems entirely reasonable to me to expect that (a) a Director of the football club has the right balance of skills and attributes to carry out that function properly AND (b ) that the Director appointed through the Jags Trust carry a popular mandate. As in all walks of life that means there's plenty of room for 'conspiracy theories', but the reality is likely to be more mundane. Me too. If the Trust wastes too much time rabble-rousing over this when there could be a real sea of change about to happen then it may as well call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted October 21, 2010 Members Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 IIRC, there was supposed to be a Club Board meeting later in the week following the recent Trust Open Meeting following which the Trust hoped to be informed more of recent developments within the Club. Is there anything to report on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 .... I stand by the point that if [the Board] are looking to fill the skills gaps on the Board, then that is a separate issue from who we elect as our Rep. The Rep should not be seen as a way to plug those gaps. The Rep need only meet our requirements, not the BOD's. .... In short - if the BOD have rejected Morag because they want someone with more skills, then that is the wrong approach. If they have rejected her because of a lack of democracy in her election, that's more understandable, but it is also a matter for the fans and not the BOD. Spot on - unless you want your employer to "help" in choosing your union reps and the government of the day to choose your MP, your MSP and your local councillor - just in case you get it wrong about the skills required, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Spot on - unless you want your employer to "help" in choosing your union reps and the government of the day to choose your MP, your MSP and your local councillor - just in case you get it wrong about the skills required, of course. yeah that sentiment is what the message from the board smacked of to me. i definately think having an election for the fans rep position gives us a stronger position because it does have a mandate. yeah its a thankless task but i've never understood why people don't put themselves forward when you consider that the underlying impulse to posting on football forums is a desire to be involved in running ones football team? FCUM have 300 volunteers involved in getting shit done. We can't even fill our trust board. Just what the **** is wrong with us as fans. Maybe the board are right not to want to get us onboard since we don't seem to be willing to put our money or time where our mouths are? Edited October 21, 2010 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Maybe we could compromise. The Trust picks out the person best equipped to represent the fans and the Board train him/her up on how best to run the Centenary Fund. Who knows after a few dummy runs we might get the draw taking place each month on the stated date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags365 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Well now that Eddie's left us there's obviously no-one with his 'expertise' is left to run the draw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I hope someone will post the "important message from the Boardroom including details of Club restructuring" from today's programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 More news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 More news. Thanks. The financing of the new personnel is interesting. Are they part-time consultants charging fees to the Directors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 That's an excellent newsletter. It's been a long long time since I've felt we haven't been talked down to by similar attempts. I'm that shocked by the absence of a patronising tone that I'm lost for words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuggie Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) I wonder if Shuggie still has his ideas list lifted from the old ptfc.net forum? Yes I do - but remember Will, all I did was collate the views of the fans that I could sift by trawling through the Forum's history (those were the days when you could do so without the risk of being reduced to tears :-) PS I also thought Beattie's tone was encouraging Edited October 30, 2010 by Shuggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 More news. did cowdenbeath forget their away strip today cos I didn't see any Centenary top! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 How nice to be addressed as a human being after years of being patronised by Hughes & Cowan. Great stuff Mr Beattie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 How nice to be addressed as a human being after years of being patronised by Hughes & Cowan. Great stuff Mr Beattie. Having read the article on here I was very impressed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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