crazy davie Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Only the Dundee Utd chairman has said it - "there's been no talk of wealth distribution AT ALL" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
read'n'yell Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I can see where the SPL are coming from that the two leagues of 10 will, currently, bring in more money to the clubs and relegation will not be a financial disaster. However, these projections are all based on that the same amount of fans will come to the games. If by making the game too tight,thus serving up poor football, less fans will turn out and there will be less money. I think they have failed to understand that by introducing a larger league a lot more fans will come and make up the revenue lost by a larger league structure. While at the same time improving the openness of the game. Being completely honest, I do not go to as many games now (maybe only 10 a season) and this is solely down to us playing poor teams I have no desire or passion to watch. If the league was expanded to 18, assuming we would be in it, I would definitely be a season ticket holder. A lot of clubs at our level will gain fans not by improving but by playing better opposition. Certainly local neutrals will be far more likely to turn out to watch their local club against the bigger teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colognejag Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 2 things: 1. Extra TV money? Bollox - the coverage of the SPL is effectively simply to show Rangers and Celtic away matches for the armchair Old Firm fans - 1 or even 2 fewer Old Firm games will not make them cancel their Sky subscription. They may show the odd match that doesn't include either of the Old Firm, but very few. The Old Firm armchair fans are the ones that Sky needs and they will watch their team whether it is against Aberdeen, Hearts, Strnraer or Elgin. 2. Even if the SPL chairmen vote for it, the SFL clubs have the most say on whether it can go through. SPL says yes, we say no and do not accept the two teams getting punted down to us. The SFL stays strong and then the bottom 2 SPL clubs have no league to play in..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 All this 'more financial safety following relegation' talk is bollocks. All it means is that the team who goes down from SPL2 is totally ******. They go down from a league with, supposedly, £350,000 extra income to a regional division with literally no big teams and no decent away supports to be had at all. It just changes where the hit comes, rather than removing it. Obviously, though, this is fine cos it means the team who suffer are those ranked 22nd and 23rd in Scotland (Airdrie and Ayr, as relegated 2009/10 teams) instead of 13th (for example, Falkirk as relegated in 2009/2010). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Thistle Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Doncaster needs his head examined how do they propose they do the split from 12 to 10 relate 3 teams one year and promote the winners of the SFL 1 that would be like turkeys voting for Xmas so I cannot honestly see SPL chairman from bottom half clubs potentially relegating themselves or relegate 2 and have no promotion from SFL 1 making that seasons SFL fixtures completely meaningless. Knowing our luck that would be the year we walk the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Heron Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Bottom line is that the SPL are looking to come up with a plan that protects their income stream. End of....... Any relationship that might have with the best thing for Scottish Football as a whole is entirely coincidental. Actually, unlikely would be a better word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 (edited) Bottom line is that the SPL are looking to come up with a plan that protects their income stream. End of....... Any relationship that might have with the best thing for Scottish Football as a whole is entirely coincidental. Actually, unlikely would be a better word Rough figures taken from here suggests the prize pot for SPL 2 is likely to be between £5 and 6 million. Broken down: 11th in SPL = £800k 12th in SPL = £720k Parachute payment for relegated SPL Club = £375k (over 2 years) Combined SFL prize money = £610k Whatever money is saved from the annual payment from SPL to SFL = £1.5m (if whole payment is stopped), more likely about £800k or £900k. If you add the Irn Bru and other sponsorship money, plus the money from this SPL Cup and any potential money from TV/Media deals, then it could be a potential +£6m prize pot. This money is already in the game, it's not new money. The difference would be that instead of 2 clubs getting £1.595 between them, 10 SFL 1 Clubs sharing £610k between them, 30 SFL Clubs sharing the sponsorship and tv/media money between them...all that money would be shared with 10 SPL 2 teams. Some of the £1.5m paid to the SFL by the SPL will most likely be funding the prize money for SFL Clubs (anyone know the ptotal prize money paid out in SFL 2 and SFL 3?), so Im not sure of how much EXTRA money that equates to in these figures...probably reduces the overall prize pot a bit. These 'very rough' figures suggest middle of the road clubs will see quite an increase in income, but the small teams (most of SFL 2 and SFL 3) are being hung out to dry. These figures also dont take account of any increase in prize money for the SPL 1 teams, my assumption isthey will get the same prize money as they do now but will get a greater 'slice of the TV/Media cake' because that money will be divided by 10 instead of 12. Is it worth it for the same tedious crap where we play teams 4 times a season (at least) in a cut throat league where relegation to the 3rd tier would see Clubs in financial meltdown? Not for me, but then Im a football fan and we obviously do not know what's best for Scottish football Edited January 6, 2011 by Steven H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Rough figures taken from here suggests the prize pot for SPL 2 is likely to be between £5 and 6 million. Broken down: 11th in SPL = £800k 12th in SPL = £720k Parachute payment for relegated SPL Club = £375k (over 2 years) Combined SFL prize money = £610k Whatever money is saved from the annual payment from SPL to SFL = £1.5m (if whole payment is stopped), more likely about £800k or £900k. If you add the Irn Bru and other sponsorship money, plus the money from this SPL Cup and any potential money from TV/Media deals, then it could be a potential +£6m prize pot. This money is already in the game, it's not new money. The difference would be that instead of 2 clubs getting £1.595 between them, 10 SFL 1 Clubs sharing £610k between them, 30 SFL Clubs sharing the sponsorship and tv/media money between them...all that money would be shared with 10 SPL 2 teams. Some of the £1.5m paid to the SFL by the SPL will most likely be funding the prize money for SFL Clubs (anyone know the ptotal prize money paid out in SFL 2 and SFL 3?), so Im not sure of how much EXTRA money that equates to in these figures...probably reduces the overall prize pot a bit. These 'very rough' figures suggest middle of the road clubs will see quite an increase in income, but the small teams (most of SFL 2 and SFL 3) are being hung out to dry. These figures also dont take account of any increase in prize money for the SPL 1 teams, my assumption isthey will get the same prize money as they do now but will get a greater 'slice of the TV/Media cake' because that money will be divided by 10 instead of 12. Is it worth it for the same tedious crap where we play teams 4 times a season (at least) in a cut throat league where relegation to the 3rd tier would see Clubs in financial meltdown? Not for me, but then Im a football fan and we obviously do not know what's best for Scottish football Remember when the SPL started we were told there would be so much more money for the clubs involved, never came well except for 90% going to the OF and the other 10% going to the rest, look at how many clubs in the SPL or who have went into it are close to being bust (if they werent a football club but a regular business they would be) Us Kilmarnock dunfermline dundee livingstone Rangers Motherwell Hearts and there is probably more, as soon as they mention more money in the league players want bigger wages etc etc and clubs spend more as the loss from relegation is incredible, even though they are losing money hand over fist year in year out trying to stay in the land of milk and honey. Lets see how much money really comes out of it, cause who will pay for the TV rights for SPL2 when they struggled to get a deal for SPL1 and the only games that really generate any interest are the old firm clashes now, and that has hee-haw to do with football. The product on the park will get worse with tighter smaller leagues and more to lose, The cost for the fans will come up, as players demand more money. And clubs will pay to safegaurd there league survival. The clubs will end up in more debt as they try to keep in the league. This could be the beginning of the end for the game in our country as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Remember when the SPL started we were told there would be so much more money for the clubs involved, never came well except for 90% going to the OF and the other 10% going to the rest, look at how many clubs in the SPL or who have went into it are close to being bust (if they werent a football club but a regular business they would be) Us Kilmarnock dunfermline dundee livingstone Rangers Motherwell Hearts and there is probably more, as soon as they mention more money in the league players want bigger wages etc etc and clubs spend more as the loss from relegation is incredible, even though they are losing money hand over fist year in year out trying to stay in the land of milk and honey. Lets see how much money really comes out of it, cause who will pay for the TV rights for SPL2 when they struggled to get a deal for SPL1 and the only games that really generate any interest are the old firm clashes now, and that has hee-haw to do with football. The product on the park will get worse with tighter smaller leagues and more to lose, The cost for the fans will come up, as players demand more money. And clubs will pay to safegaurd there league survival. The clubs will end up in more debt as they try to keep in the league. This could be the beginning of the end for the game in our country as we know it. Agreed, the pot of gold is not enough to justify this scenario...and we dont know how this prize pot will be broken down. Allegedly, on average, each SPL 2 Club will be £300k better off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Whatever money is saved from the annual payment from SPL to SFL = £1.5m (if whole payment is stopped), more likely about £800k or £900k. If i remember right part of that money goes to the SFL to allow SPL clubs to play in Europe as the SFA's league is the SFL, and there was talk a while ago that if there was no safegaurd (moneys) for the rest of scottish football the winner of SFL1 would get the Champions League spot and not the old firm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 If i remember right part of that money goes to the SFL to allow SPL clubs to play in Europe as the SFA's league is the SFL, and there was talk a while ago that if there was no safegaurd (moneys) for the rest of scottish football the winner of SFL1 would get the Champions League spot and not the old firm My understanding is the SFA can choose whichever Clubs they want to represent Scotland in Europe, it obviously makes sense to use these places as prizes for league positions but they can choose any Club who meets the criteria if the wanted to (causing a major stushie in the process). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 My understanding is the SFA can choose whichever Clubs they want to represent Scotland in Europe... <SFA's doorstep, Hampden Park, Glasgow. Tomorrow morning.> Me: "'mon." SFA: "Oh, Hi PGS. What was that?> Me: "'mon..." SFA: "Is there something you want?" Me: "Gi's it." SFA: "Give you what?" Me: "'mon...GI'S IT" SFA: "Is this about the European places again?" Me: "Gi's iiiiiiiiiit...'mon..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 <SFA's doorstep, Hampden Park, Glasgow. Tomorrow morning.> Me: "'mon." SFA: "Oh, Hi PGS. What was that?> Me: "'mon..." SFA: "Is there something you want?" Me: "Gi's it." SFA: "Give you what?" Me: "'mon...GI'S IT" SFA: "Is this about the European places again?" Me: "Gi's iiiiiiiiiit...'mon..." I know, point taken, but it was discussed on one of the football phone-in's not that long ago. Not in relation to any league re-construction tho IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Plus the crazy idea of allowing 4 "colt" teams to play in the league just makes it a greater farce. 4 teams that cant go up or down in a league of 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted January 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Scottish National Cricket League currently allows it's academy team to play in the premier division. Ideas like this will seriously improve the national players in the future, but the year that an academy side/youth side wins a division, it'll just look ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was hoping that the only good thing to come out of this, assuming we ge this £350,000 Doncaster has indicated we'll get, might be that ticket prices come down as a result of other income. Seriously, does anyone else hate his hair? I hate everything about him, especially when he opens his ugly mug to speak. That apart, did anybody hear the Inverness rep on bbc radio tonight? He met with Doncaster today. Did I detect a move towards possible support of the proposals? Apologies for the shouting block capitals about to come... Also, Doncaster categorically said that the 12 were against a bigger league. THE TWELVE. That is, ALL 12. Minutes later the St Mirren rep said that they favour a bigger league and always have. Yet.....they're part of the 6 club steering group? Huh? I don't get this. Who formed that mini league anyway, and on what basis? They didn't ask the others. Anyway, there you have it. DONCASTER IS A LIAR and we can't trust anything he says, or proposes, yet he's leading this charge towards oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I hate everything about him, especially when he opens his ugly mug to speak. That apart, did anybody hear the Inverness rep on bbc radio tonight? He met with Doncaster today. Did I detect a move towards possible support of the proposals? Apologies for the shouting block capitals about to come... Also, Doncaster categorically said that the 12 were against a bigger league. THE TWELVE. That is, ALL 12. Minutes later the St Mirren rep said that they favour a bigger league and always have. Yet.....they're part of the 6 club steering group? Huh? I don't get this. Who formed that mini league anyway, and on what basis? They didn't ask the others. Anyway, there you have it. DONCASTER IS A LIAR and we can't trust anything he says, or proposes, yet he's leading this charge towards oblivion. No surprise to see both Rangers & Celtic in the 'group', surely just by fluke though... Edited January 7, 2011 by 1 John Lambie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 I can see where the SPL are coming from that the two leagues of 10 will, currently, bring in more money to the clubs and relegation will not be a financial disaster. However, these projections are all based on that the same amount of fans will come to the games. If by making the game too tight,thus serving up poor football, less fans will turn out and there will be less money. There's an aspect to this that many people appear to be overlooking. If the relegated team(s) get an even bigger parachute payment than at present, then they can remain much stronger (in theory) than teams that they're now competing against, who have been leading a hand-to-mouth existence. Although history shows that they're not especially advantaged when it comes to winning promotion back up to the SPL at the first attempt, I can't help thinking that this arrangement is in no small part aimed at maintaining the "closed shop", making it even harder for other teams to break in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleGreySky Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 The team who doesn't manage to go up after coming down, even with the parachute payments, will be ABSOULUTELY ****** though. Hold on...isn't that us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 If the SPL stays at 12 clubs but opens the door for play offs (11th SPL 2nd, 3rd & 4th Div1) the way would still be open for larger SFL leagues. The SFL itself would probably have to go some way towards scrapping the closed shop (if not a pyramid system then at least some method to allow promotion & relegation to & from the lower tier). They might also have to reintroduce mini leagues into the League Cup. An SPL of 12 clubs, a 1st Div of 16 or 18 clubs and a lower division of 12 or 14 (with an SPL type split) would be better than what we've got at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 If the SPL stays at 12 clubs but opens the door for play offs (11th SPL 2nd, 3rd & 4th Div1) the way would still be open for larger SFL leagues. The SFL itself would probably have to go some way towards scrapping the closed shop (if not a pyramid system then at least some method to allow promotion & relegation to & from the lower tier). They might also have to reintroduce mini leagues into the League Cup. An SPL of 12 clubs, a 1st Div of 16 or 18 clubs and a lower division of 12 or 14 (with an SPL type split) would be better than what we've got at the moment. 3 leagues of differing sizes makes no sense. 3 leagues of 14 clubs (playing each other 3 times plus play-offs) could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collins Out! Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Excellent points and so well made. Difficult to argue with any of that. Yes that should temper any enthusiasm for regional football. By the way, tell the Stranraer chairman I couldn't give a monkey's shit if he has to arrange a bus to Elgin twice a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I have nothing much to add to this thread, as all the points I wish to make have been covered as everybody and their dog knows that this 10 team proposal is ludicrous. I just want to say that I absolutely despise this Neil Doncaster character. Listening to him on Radio Scotland during the week had me shaking with rage. He is arrogant, ignorant, pompous, incompetent, hypocritcal and he is a bare faced liar who has absolutely no interest in the overall developement and well being of the Scottish game. He treats the paying customer like the shit on his shoe. Edited January 7, 2011 by Tom Stronach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Yes that should temper any enthusiasm for regional football. By the way, tell the Stranraer chairman I couldn't give a monkey's shit if he has to arrange a bus to Elgin twice a year. i take it the tablets have not worked then Edited January 7, 2011 by jaggybunnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collins Out! Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 i take it the tablets have not worked then:rolleyes: Away and have a jobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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