Tom Stronach Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 This could easily have been "One hundred changes you would make to Scottish football", but we'll keep it relatively brief with five key points. Fair pricing - Attendances across Scotland are dreadful just now. You only need to look at Celtic to see how bad things are. They are odds on for the treble, but there are thousands of empty seats at the San Giro every week. The same can be said for just about every club in the country, but we can hardly be surprised with the prices we are being charges. Supporters are the lifeblood of the game and if we don't act fast, an entire generation of young fans will be lost to the game forever unless we have a serious re-think about our pricing structures. In my opinion, it shouldn't cost anymore than £10 for an adult to watch a 1st Division match and say £5 for concession. £19 to get into Dens is scandalous. It's even more ridiculous in the SPL. How can they justify charging around £22 to watch dross like St Johnstone or Dunfermline? It can be no surprise that St Johnstone once resorted to filling their empty stands with cardboard cut outs and the latter had to close an entire stand due to falling attendances. It should be no more than £15 for an adult to watch a run of the mill top flight match in this country. If it can be done in Germany and Italy's top leagues, it can be done here. League re-construction - This subject has been discussed endlessly in recent seasons, but we're still no further forward. The SPL has to be totally transformed. 14, 16, 18 or 20 teams. It doesn't really matter. As long as their are more relegation places and/or play-offs. The single biggest factor that has to be looked at though is this ludicrous playing every team four times a season. The fans are dying of boredom. Larger leagues would bring back the excitement. For example, if teams were to only play each other twice in one season, a Hibs fan has only one chance to see an Edinburgh Derby at his team's home ground, so he's going to make sure he's there. With the current set up, there isn't the same appeal for such fixtures due to the frequency of them. Familiarity breeds contempt as the saying goes. I would also like us to look at the introduction of regionalised conference leagues - similar to what they have in England. It would make the third division far more competitive and it would allow ambitious junior clubs to thrive. Summer Football - Summer football for me, is a no brainer. The pitches would be in far better condition, giving the fans better value for their money as the quality of play would undoubtedly be better. We wouldn't be playing at the same time as the English clubs, meaning people would be more likely to go and watch their team instead of going to the pub to watch a live English Premier game or Soccer Saturday instead. During the close season in winter, the English game will be in the middle of their season allowing football fans in Scotland to enjoy more football all year round. Plenty of people simply can't afford to go to games in December or January due to Christmas. Summer football would obviously save such people that problem. It's much more appealing to go and watch football on a sunny afternoon in June or July when it's still light after the game, than it is on a freezing cold winters day in December or January. Summer football should also put a stop to the shocking number of postponements we get each year due to adverse weather. Alcohol in stadiums - I realise that this is a government issue rather than a Scottish football one, but football supporters should be able to enjoy a pint on the concourse before, during or after a game if they wish. They've been doing it for years in England and there's never been any bother that's been directly linked to the consumption of alcohol within a ground. We could always ban alcohol at any game involving the Old Firm (after all, it was their animal fans that got it banned in the first place) or any fixture that the police feel has the potential for trouble. I think it would be fair to say that if we allowed fans to buy plastic bottles of medium strenght beer and lager to fans as they do down south, we wouldn't suddenly see a spate of pitch invasions and rioting in the stands at games involving the likes of us, Hamilton, Ross County etc. Standing areas as well as seated areas in all ground - There's a shocking lack of choice for football fans in most Scottish grounds these days. Some people want to be able to stand for 90 minutes and sing their heart out and other just want to watch the game from a seat in peace and quiet. We should be able to accomodate every type of supporter. Family stands where people can bring their kids for reasonable prices without having to worry about people shouting and swearing around their children and terracing areas for your more traditional football fan who likes to have a pint before the game and let off some steam during it without fear of being ejected. Again, if it can be done in Germany, it can be done here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Agree with all of that but the most important thing is that the league set up's MUST be changed!! The fact that our Division must be about the only league in the Wolrd where coming second gets you sod all. Just how they have managed to get away with that senario for so long beggars belief. I am with Pressley on this....give us an 18 team Premier League which will distribute the money in this country more fairly. No chance of it happening but I would scrap TV deals (highlights only, like the good old days) Every game played at 15.00 on a Saturday and £15 max price for the top league. Yawn.....man that was a great dream!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Everything the OP mentioned. Always thought introducing a home grown rule in all the leagues, especially the SPL. Four of five players have to be Scottish in the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Summer Football - Summer football for me, is a no brainer. The pitches would be in far better condition, giving the fans better value for their money as the quality of play would undoubtedly be better. We wouldn't be playing at the same time as the English clubs, meaning people would be more likely to go and watch their team instead of going to the pub to watch a live English Premier game or Soccer Saturday instead. During the close season in winter, the English game will be in the middle of their season allowing football fans in Scotland to enjoy more football all year round. Plenty of people simply can't afford to go to games in December or January due to Christmas. Summer football would obviously save such people that problem. It's much more appealing to go and watch football on a sunny afternoon in June or July when it's still light after the game, than it is on a freezing cold winters day in December or January. Summer football should also put a stop to the shocking number of postponements we get each year due to adverse weather. I am no historian of football, but I cannot understand why football season starts in autumn and ends in spring. In Japan, football season starts in March because there are many teams who cannot use their home stadiums in winter because of snow. I think that the Japanese system is far better. In winter, we should enjoy indoor sports like Futsal, Handball or Ice Hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Agree with pretty much all the stuff the first post said. But it's pissing in the wind, the dinosaurs that run (or should that be ruin) not only our game, but the european and world associations also, are so stuck in their ways and obsessed with money that they can't see the bare facts in front of them. They rely on the blind loyalty fans show, knowing they can ignore us without repurcussions (sp?), but slowly the contempt of the fans will reach an irreversible slide and the game will be ****** in this country. Largely part time outwith maybe 10 teams I predict. The regionalised leagues is definitely something that needs looking at. Few midweeks back there were 2 fixtures in the SFL I remember that made me think of this, it was Annan Peterhead or somethin, along with Clyde Elgin, something like that. But midweek, and your asking part time teams to travel that distance midweek. Madness. Need a pyramid system similar to down south, I'm really envious of their set up it's so sensible and keeps everyone interested and excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Agree with pretty much all the stuff the first post said. But it's pissing in the wind, the dinosaurs that run (or should that be ruin) not only our game, but the european and world associations also, are so stuck in their ways and obsessed with money that they can't see the bare facts in front of them. They rely on the blind loyalty fans show, knowing they can ignore us without repurcussions (sp?), but slowly the contempt of the fans will reach an irreversible slide and the game will be ****** in this country. Largely part time outwith maybe 10 teams I predict. The regionalised leagues is definitely something that needs looking at. Few midweeks back there were 2 fixtures in the SFL I remember that made me think of this, it was Annan Peterhead or somethin, along with Clyde Elgin, something like that. But midweek, and your asking part time teams to travel that distance midweek. Madness. Need a pyramid system similar to down south, I'm really envious of their set up it's so sensible and keeps everyone interested and excited. It would be difficult to implement when the Scottish population is skewed geographically, much more so than in England. However it should be looked at more thoroughly. The English system has a different number of tiers in different sections of the country, and this would need done here, so the West of Scotland might have two or three regional leagues whilst the Highlands only one. The P&B third division forum's 'SFL Pyramid' thread goes into detail on this, and also explains some of the changes that are supposedly being discussed by the league clubs and SFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 This could easily have been "One hundred changes you would make to Scottish football", but we'll keep it relatively brief with five key points. Fair pricing - Attendances across Scotland are dreadful just now. You only need to look at Celtic to see how bad things are. They are odds on for the treble, but there are thousands of empty seats at the San Giro every week. The same can be said for just about every club in the country, but we can hardly be surprised with the prices we are being charges. Supporters are the lifeblood of the game and if we don't act fast, an entire generation of young fans will be lost to the game forever unless we have a serious re-think about our pricing structures. In my opinion, it shouldn't cost anymore than £10 for an adult to watch a 1st Division match and say £5 for concession. £19 to get into Dens is scandalous. It's even more ridiculous in the SPL. How can they justify charging around £22 to watch dross like St Johnstone or Dunfermline? It can be no surprise that St Johnstone once resorted to filling their empty stands with cardboard cut outs and the latter had to close an entire stand due to falling attendances. It should be no more than £15 for an adult to watch a run of the mill top flight match in this country. If it can be done in Germany and Italy's top leagues, it can be done here. League re-construction - This subject has been discussed endlessly in recent seasons, but we're still no further forward. The SPL has to be totally transformed. 14, 16, 18 or 20 teams. It doesn't really matter. As long as their are more relegation places and/or play-offs. The single biggest factor that has to be looked at though is this ludicrous playing every team four times a season. The fans are dying of boredom. Larger leagues would bring back the excitement. For example, if teams were to only play each other twice in one season, a Hibs fan has only one chance to see an Edinburgh Derby at his team's home ground, so he's going to make sure he's there. With the current set up, there isn't the same appeal for such fixtures due to the frequency of them. Familiarity breeds contempt as the saying goes. I would also like us to look at the introduction of regionalised conference leagues - similar to what they have in England. It would make the third division far more competitive and it would allow ambitious junior clubs to thrive. Summer Football - Summer football for me, is a no brainer. The pitches would be in far better condition, giving the fans better value for their money as the quality of play would undoubtedly be better. We wouldn't be playing at the same time as the English clubs, meaning people would be more likely to go and watch their team instead of going to the pub to watch a live English Premier game or Soccer Saturday instead. During the close season in winter, the English game will be in the middle of their season allowing football fans in Scotland to enjoy more football all year round. Plenty of people simply can't afford to go to games in December or January due to Christmas. Summer football would obviously save such people that problem. It's much more appealing to go and watch football on a sunny afternoon in June or July when it's still light after the game, than it is on a freezing cold winters day in December or January. Summer football should also put a stop to the shocking number of postponements we get each year due to adverse weather. Alcohol in stadiums - I realise that this is a government issue rather than a Scottish football one, but football supporters should be able to enjoy a pint on the concourse before, during or after a game if they wish. They've been doing it for years in England and there's never been any bother that's been directly linked to the consumption of alcohol within a ground. We could always ban alcohol at any game involving the Old Firm (after all, it was their animal fans that got it banned in the first place) or any fixture that the police feel has the potential for trouble. I think it would be fair to say that if we allowed fans to buy plastic bottles of medium strenght beer and lager to fans as they do down south, we wouldn't suddenly see a spate of pitch invasions and rioting in the stands at games involving the likes of us, Hamilton, Ross County etc. Standing areas as well as seated areas in all ground - There's a shocking lack of choice for football fans in most Scottish grounds these days. Some people want to be able to stand for 90 minutes and sing their heart out and other just want to watch the game from a seat in peace and quiet. We should be able to accomodate every type of supporter. Family stands where people can bring their kids for reasonable prices without having to worry about people shouting and swearing around their children and terracing areas for your more traditional football fan who likes to have a pint before the game and let off some steam during it without fear of being ejected. Again, if it can be done in Germany, it can be done here. All excellent points, worthy of serious consideration, and some action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Agree with all of that but the most important thing is that the league set up's MUST be changed!! The fact that our Division must be about the only league in the Wolrd where coming second gets you sod all. Just how they have managed to get away with that senario for so long beggars belief. I am with Pressley on this....give us an 18 team Premier League which will distribute the money in this country more fairly. No chance of it happening but I would scrap TV deals (highlights only, like the good old days) Every game played at 15.00 on a Saturday and £15 max price for the top league. Yawn.....man that was a great dream!! All good points I'd also limit the amount of live games shown in SPL to 1 a month and keep the rest of the games at 3pm on a Saturday as much as possible, try to encourage folk back by taking the sit at home product away a bit, and making the live games a wee bit more special unlike the football overload on telly today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanarkjag Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Great post, and one that is hard not to agree with. Would love to see a return to 15:00 football for everyone on a Saturday, TV now has far too much control over the game. Also, does anyone else lament the loss of the old "Derby Days"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggyman Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 All good points raised above. I especially agree with scrapping tv deal and getting all games to ko at 3pm on sat. 16 team top division playing each other twice will mean 30 games and means we could leave free weekends before internationals or european games, also means we could play league cup games on saturdays instead of asking punters to attend 2 matches a week, which happens a lot at the beginning and end of the seasons. 2 up and 2 down every season and maybe a play off for a 3rd place Not too bothered about allowing drink back into games that is one thing from the old days that i definitely do not miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Surely it's much easier than all that! 1) Rangers wound up and a shopping mall built in Ibrox to give local employment (as well as the boost of no payments made for tickets that can't be afforded there). 2) Celtic banned from playing in Scotland, and their ground compulsorily purchased, to be rented out to Clyde FC. Any further restructuring, etc, can safely be left to the other clubs to sort out among themselves. Edited March 13, 2012 by Fearchar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 All of your changes should be implemented, none of them will… Clubs can’t charge less because reducing prices doesn’t bring in enough extra punters to cover the reduced cost, no club wants to be the first to slash costs to allow this as it would mean almost certain relegation and the impression is they are charging less for an inferior product. Too much self interest for league reconstruction, money money money. Summer football wont happen because it would need to be passed by the old firm and they are still under the misguided belief that they are ‘big clubs’ and this would have an adverse effect on their European campaigns. Also issue with clashing with big tournaments every 2 years. The SNP have an agenda on booze which they aren’t going to change to encourage supporters to drink at football. The standing areas only effect fans, nobody cares about them, no club is going to invest in altering half empty stadiums that in most cases were built relatively recently at huge and often crippling cost. 5 things that should happen, 5 things that wont, 5 things that will contribute to the death of Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I'd go along with Tom S's proposals tho' I'm far from convinced about summer football. I'd rather see an end to re-arranged midweek fixtures being played in the winter months. That can easily be done by extending the season a tad and scrubbing the idiotic challenge cup, which usually ends up costing clubs money just to participate. Might sound daft but sitting in a covered stand in summer can feel just as cold as most other times. I do agree that playing surfaces would be improved. One thing I'd like to see implemented would be a change to the points system. I've long argued that goalless draws shouldn't be rewarded. Not sure whether 3pts win 1pt scoring draw 0pts goalless, 3pts win 2pts scoring draw and 1pt goalless or 2pts win 1pt score draw and 0pt goalless would be best but whatever I believe the benefits would be obvious. Edited March 14, 2012 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Uberteeb for chairman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'd go along with Tom S's proposals tho' I'm far from convinced about summer football. I'd rather see an end to re-arranged midweek fixtures being played in the winter months. That can easily be done by extending the season a tad and scrubbing the idiotic challenge cup, which usually ends up costing clubs money just to participate. Might sound daft but sitting in a covered stand in summer can feel just as cold as most other times. I do agree that playing surfaces would be improved. One thing I'd like to see implemented would be a change to the points system. I've long argued that goalless draws shouldn't be rewarded. Not sure whether 3pts win 1pt scoring draw 0pts goalless, 3pts win 2pts scoring draw and 1pt goalless or 2pts win 1pt score draw and 0pt goalless would be best but whatever I believe the benefits would be obvious. Away win: 5 pts Home win: 4 pts Away score draw: 3 pts Home score draw: 2 pts 0-0 draw: 1 pt Defeat: 0 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Jags win: 12 pts Away win: 5 pts Home win: 4 pts Away score draw: 3 pts Home score draw: 2 pts 0-0 draw: 1 pt Defeat: 0 pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Jags win: 12 pts Away win: 5 pts Home win: 4 pts Away score draw: 3 pts Home score draw: 2 pts 0-0 draw: 1 pt Defeat: 0 pts Norgethistle, that's ridiculous. Much fairer simply to award all other teams no more than 1 point regardless of their results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Jags win: 12 pts Away win: 5 pts Home win: 4 pts Away score draw: 3 pts Home score draw: 2 pts 0-0 draw: 1 pt Defeat: 0 pts Norgethistle, that's ridiculous. Much fairer simply to award all other teams no more than 1 point regardless of their results. So your happy with 4th spot then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Away win: 5 pts Home win: 4 pts Away score draw: 3 pts Home score draw: 2 pts 0-0 draw: 1 pt Defeat: 0 pts What would stop teams from allowing each other a goal to guarantee an extra point should no further goals be scored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 What would stop teams from allowing each other a goal to guarantee an extra point should no further goals be scored? Because by "gifting" your opponents a goal you would be giving up several points that you would get through winning. You could ask the same kind of question under the current system: why don't teams simply agree to play out a 0-0 draw and pick up a point each? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I couldn't disagree more with changing the points, just leave it the way it is, I understand the logic behind awarding more points for an away win, much like the away goals in champions league, but no, just leave it the way it is it's absolutely fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I couldn't disagree more with changing the points, just leave it the way it is, I understand the logic behind awarding more points for an away win, much like the away goals in champions league, but no, just leave it the way it is it's absolutely fine. What's so fine about awarding points for a goalless draw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 If there are more points for a score draw than a no score draw then it becomes open to abuse where clubs can artificially create a score draw and they both reap the points benefits. Leave it just as it is please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I can't remember the details of this, but over 30 years ago in England there was a last-weekend match in which the loser would get relegated, but if they drew they would both stay up if another team lost. Somehow word came through that the other team had in fact lost, so the two teams simply passed the ball around to each other, blatantly making no attempt whatsoever to win or even score. Can anybody clarify who was involved in this infamous match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Artificial pitches Play-offs Short winter break Cap admission prices First division clubs break away from SFL Absolutely no 16 team league, totally unfeasible. Edited March 15, 2012 by MWM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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